Jerksticks Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 16, 2011 -> 03:06 PM) I can deal with a Vlad comparison, but making statements that ignore or denigrate #35's legendary eye and knowledge of the strike zone grinds my gears. Well, don't let it grind your gears. It's just baseball. I know it's been 20 years since we had a prospect like this, but it's ok to get excited. Let it happen. He looks good and he's going to force a change up here. It's a good thing man! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justBLAZE Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 According to the beat writers OZ did say that if the struggles continue he will bat Pierre 9th.. HEY, its a start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 QUOTE (justBLAZE @ May 16, 2011 -> 11:13 PM) According to the beat writers OZ did say that if the struggles continue he will bat Pierre 9th.. HEY, its a start. The only reason Juan has a roster spot is because they think he can leadoff. The minute you move him from that position you need to evaluate why is he out there in the first place. Having him out there fumbling around in LF is a waste. The only thing batting him 9th does is to avoid having one of your worst hitters getting the most ABs. I say you bring up Viciedo and put him in LF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 If Ozzie takes Pierre out of the leadoff spot, it'll be for a game or two. After that, he will have "learned" his lesson and will be leading off again immediately after not having earned it back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ May 17, 2011 -> 04:26 AM) The only reason Juan has a roster spot is because they think he can leadoff. The minute you move him from that position you need to evaluate why is he out there in the first place. Having him out there fumbling around in LF is a waste. The only thing batting him 9th does is to avoid having one of your worst hitters getting the most ABs. I say you bring up Viciedo and put him in LF. It's going to be great when Tank finally replaces Juan, but we're still going nowhere because our outfield defense is going to be gawdawful. Unless Tank hits .375 with 40 homers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 (edited) 6. Juan Pierre(notes) or anything. Exactly what Pierre brings to the Chicago White Sox anymore remains unclear. His offense is Tejadan and his defense Ibanezish. The one attribute Pierre retained until this year, his basestealing ability, joined his bat and glove in heaven. Even as Pierre's five-year, $44 million contract finally runs out, it's not a flop like Vernon Wells,(notes) or even a payroll squeeze, a la Chone Figgins.(notes) Pierre is just a guy whose career could well be over at 33, whether it's the White Sox ending it or other teams’ lack of interest going forward doing the same. The slow attrition that plagues all athletes may be... … Jeff Passan (Yahoo Sports) Edited May 17, 2011 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 QUOTE (greg775 @ May 17, 2011 -> 01:06 AM) It's going to be great when Tank finally replaces Juan, but we're still going nowhere because our outfield defense is going to be gawdawful. Unless Tank hits .375 with 40 homers. Quentin's actually "adequate" in RF, at least better than last year. Having Rios in CF covers up for a lot of issues as well. Viciedo at least has the type of arm strength to keep other teams from running on him at well. Having watched Josh Fields and Mark Teahen in the OF, or Brian Daubach, I can't imagine it could get any worse and the offensive jolt he'll provide should make it worthwhile, if he's allowed to play at least 5 games per week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knackattack Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Watch them resign him lmao Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCangelosi Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ May 16, 2011 -> 10:26 PM) The only reason Juan has a roster spot is because they think he can leadoff. The minute you move him from that position you need to evaluate why is he out there in the first place. Having him out there fumbling around in LF is a waste. The only thing batting him 9th does is to avoid having one of your worst hitters getting the most ABs. I say you bring up Viciedo and put him in LF. Agreed. It's time to DFA Juan, his skills have severely diminished and it's hard to think of a team that would actually pick him up today, even for the league minimum. He's a zero tool player when you consider the fact his speed no longer matters because he's such a horrible all around baserunner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 We all have to remember that Ozzie can't speak as candidly about players as we can, here in a forum. He has to be supportive of his players, as long as they remain on the team. What would it accomplish to talk about J. P. the way we do? I'm confident that Ozzie and K. W. are contemplating the kind of move that we'd all like to see, but we aren't going to hear anything about it until it happens. I think when the time comes, Ozzie will spin it something like this: "We have to give this kid a chance. He's playing really well at Charlotte, and we have to find a place for him. Juan is struggling right now, so we're going to give the Tank some playing time." If Viciedo can establish himself, they probably don't care any more than we do what they do with Pierre. But in the meantime, they have to do whatever they can to try to instill confidence in Juan's psyche. I think that if we were in Ozzie's shoes, we'd do the same thing. I hope that Juan doesn't read our comments about him. That could negate anything Ozzie might say to try to bolster his confidence. You have to feel a little bad for the guy. I'm one of his biggest detractors, but you have to give him credit for being a hard working, dedicated athlete. If he fails, it sure isn't for the lack of effort. It's a shame that he just doesn't have many tools beyond his diminishing speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 QUOTE (Lillian @ May 17, 2011 -> 09:31 AM) I hope that Juan doesn't read our comments about him. That could negate anything Ozzie might say to try to bolster his confidence. I'm totally picturing this as Juan Pierre now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 QUOTE (Lillian @ May 17, 2011 -> 08:31 AM) We all have to remember that Ozzie can't speak as candidly about players as we can, here in a forum. He has to be supportive of his players, as long as they remain on the team. What would it accomplish to talk about J. P. the way we do? I'm confident that Ozzie and K. W. are contemplating the kind of move that we'd all like to see, but we aren't going to hear anything about it until it happens. I think when the time comes, Ozzie will spin it something like this: "We have to give this kid a chance. He's playing really well at Charlotte, and we have to find a place for him. Juan is struggling right now, so we're going to give the Tank some playing time." If Viciedo can establish himself, they probably don't care any more than we do what they do with Pierre. But in the meantime, they have to do whatever they can to try to instill confidence in Juan's psyche. I think that if we were in Ozzie's shoes, we'd do the same thing. I hope that Juan doesn't read our comments about him. That could negate anything Ozzie might say to try to bolster his confidence. You have to feel a little bad for the guy. I'm one of his biggest detractors, but you have to give him credit for being a hard working, dedicated athlete. If he fails, it sure isn't for the lack of effort. It's a shame that he just doesn't have many tools beyond his diminishing speed. If Joe Mauer read everything that was being said and whispered about him in Minnesota and let it get to him, he might never get another hit in the majors. These guys are used to dealing with criticism. They're professionals. It goes with the multi-million dollar guaranteed contracts. It's when it extends to 12-18 year olds, the recruiting and "shady agents" and criticism of basketball and football players, that's when I think it can have more of an effect by far than ANYTHING said at soxtalk or wsi or The Score or WBBM or written in the newpapers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillian Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 17, 2011 -> 07:35 AM) If Joe Mauer read everything that was being said and whispered about him in Minnesota and let it get to him, he might never get another hit in the majors. These guys are used to dealing with criticism. They're professionals. It goes with the multi-million dollar guaranteed contracts. It's when it extends to 12-18 year olds, the recruiting and "shady agents" and criticism of basketball and football players, that's when I think it can have more of an effect by far than ANYTHING said at soxtalk or wsi or The Score or WBBM or written in the newpapers. I'm sorry, I should have put it in teal. I thought the sarcasm was obvious. My point was that if Ozzie talked about him the way most of us do, and the way some of us seem to think Ozzie should, it couldn't do much for the guy's confidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 QUOTE (Lillian @ May 17, 2011 -> 09:57 AM) I'm sorry, I should have put it in teal. I thought the sarcasm was obvious. My point was that if Ozzie talked about him the way most of us do, and the way some of us seem to think Ozzie should, it couldn't do much for the guy's confidence. I don't think the problem is as much confidence as it is that people want Pierre on the bench, or at least dropped in the order, and a statement of support from Ozzie is the exact opposite. Ozzie doesn't exactly have a long record of statements of support for veterans followed up by benching them (the opposite of course is true for rookies). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 QUOTE (Lillian @ May 17, 2011 -> 08:31 AM) We all have to remember that Ozzie can't speak as candidly about players as we can, here in a forum. He has to be supportive of his players, as long as they remain on the team. What would it accomplish to talk about J. P. the way we do? I'm confident that Ozzie and K. W. are contemplating the kind of move that we'd all like to see, but we aren't going to hear anything about it until it happens. I think when the time comes, Ozzie will spin it something like this: "We have to give this kid a chance. He's playing really well at Charlotte, and we have to find a place for him. Juan is struggling right now, so we're going to give the Tank some playing time." If Viciedo can establish himself, they probably don't care any more than we do what they do with Pierre. But in the meantime, they have to do whatever they can to try to instill confidence in Juan's psyche. I think that if we were in Ozzie's shoes, we'd do the same thing. I hope that Juan doesn't read our comments about him. That could negate anything Ozzie might say to try to bolster his confidence. You have to feel a little bad for the guy. I'm one of his biggest detractors, but you have to give him credit for being a hard working, dedicated athlete. If he fails, it sure isn't for the lack of effort. It's a shame that he just doesn't have many tools beyond his diminishing speed. I don't have that faith in Ozzie at all. Honest to God, he keeps a horrible player on the team every year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ May 17, 2011 -> 12:47 PM) I don't have that faith in Ozzie at all. Honest to God, he keeps continually starts a horrible player on the team every year. fixed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ May 17, 2011 -> 01:33 PM) fixed Well, I didn't go with "start" because some guys he just keeps on the bench even though they add virtually nothing. Wise and Timo come to mind immediately off of the top of my head. Even though Wise got a lot of starts, he wasn't always a starter, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ May 17, 2011 -> 01:37 PM) Well, I didn't go with "start" because some guys he just keeps on the bench even though they add virtually nothing. Wise and Timo come to mind immediately off of the top of my head. Even though Wise got a lot of starts, he wasn't always a starter, etc. Doesn't Kenny decide who's on the ML roster? It's on Ozzie for starting these scrubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Pierre not in the lineup tonight! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ May 17, 2011 -> 02:41 PM) Pierre not in the lineup tonight! Finally. Lilli getting the start and the leadoff spot. Boy do I hope he has a good game... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ May 17, 2011 -> 01:39 PM) Doesn't Kenny decide who's on the ML roster? It's on Ozzie for starting these scrubs. I think Ozzie has a pretty good say in in, though. I feel like it goes something like this: Ozzie says he will not play ____, so don't even put him on the roster. Ozzie says that ____ needs to be on the team or else he will do ____ (probably throw a s***-fit to the press and threaten to quit which then gets the option years of his contract assured). KW seemingly has no choice but to give him ____ player in response. In the end, it's on both of them. Ozzie for demanding certain players and KW for giving them to him and not just firing his ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ May 17, 2011 -> 01:41 PM) Pierre not in the lineup tonight! Thats to give him a mental rest. He will be back in the lineup tomorrow. The Guillen vision of a lineup starts with a fast grindy guy up top who disrupts on the basepaths. He has wanted a Juan Pierre like player since he came here, he is not going to give up on the actual Juan Pierre. He will start with this rest, then he will demote him to 9th which inevitably makes him worthless on this team. The minute he has a decent game, he is back at the top of the lineup. Ozzie Guillen in his mind believes that Juan Pierre is the secret ingredient to making the offense go. His rotating DH idea last year should show you that he believes some slap and tickle baseball filled up with generating lots of outs in the name of hustle will solve all problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ May 17, 2011 -> 04:37 PM) Thats to give him a mental rest. He will be back in the lineup tomorrow. The Guillen vision of a lineup starts with a fast grindy guy up top who disrupts on the basepaths. He has wanted a Juan Pierre like player since he came here, he is not going to give up on the actual Juan Pierre. He will start with this rest, then he will demote him to 9th which inevitably makes him worthless on this team. The minute he has a decent game, he is back at the top of the lineup. Ozzie Guillen in his mind believes that Juan Pierre is the secret ingredient to making the offense go. His rotating DH idea last year should show you that he believes some slap and tickle baseball filled up with generating lots of outs in the name of hustle will solve all problems. This is why DV will not replace Pierre. Ozzie likes this type of guy at the top of the order. If Pierre is out of the lineup, the Sox do not have this type of player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Lillibridge will be terribly overexposed, but I can honestly say I'd rather see him playing LF and leading off for 3-4 weeks than Pierre at this point. He always hustles, he seems to truly value the opportunity to be on a major league roster the second time around and he's been a valuable contributor as a hitter after looking totally overmatched in his first go-round with us. I'm sure he would have a better stolen base % and play defense more than adequately. Doesn't matter what we think, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 17, 2011 -> 06:30 PM) Lillibridge will be terribly overexposed, but I can honestly say I'd rather see him playing LF and leading off for 3-4 weeks than Pierre at this point. He always hustles, he seems to truly value the opportunity to be on a major league roster the second time around and he's been a valuable contributor as a hitter after looking totally overmatched in his first go-round with us. I'm sure he would have a better stolen base % and play defense more than adequately. Doesn't matter what we think, though. Don't forget it's fun to read his tweets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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