Konerko HoF?

[iamshack]

He hasn't even gotten to 400 homers yet. I'm not going to assume he is going to hit 500.

All of my arguments here are under the assumption that he would reach 500. I thought that was the premise.

[LittleHurt05]

If there was ever a player I would feel comfortable betting a lot of money that never used steriods, PK would be him.

 

Frank Thomas

[scenario]

500 homeruns gets you in.

 

 

[iamshack]

500 homeruns gets you in.

That's how I feel, and I feel like the writers are going to make examples of the guys who are known to be clean and classy guys as well, which would play to his advantage.

[Leonard Zelig]

That's how I feel, and I feel like the writers are going to make examples of the guys who are known to be clean and classy guys as well, which would play to his advantage.

 

The problem with that is, nobody knows who was clean. We only know for sure the ones who have failed tests.

[iamshack]

IF, PK does get to 500 HR...I have to think he compares pretty favorably to guys like Eddie Murray, Orlando Cepda, Tony Perez, etc....although I will admit there are just a ton of big-hitting 1b's coming out of this era that are probably clean....

Edited May 9, 2011 by iamshack

[iamshack]

The problem with that is, nobody knows who was clean. We only know for sure the ones who have failed tests.

I understand, but I think there are some guys who have never been questioned or under any suspiscion...PK would fit into that group. All in all, I don't think they will just throw out the entire era.

[Rowand44]

500 homeruns or not, has anyone ever ever ever thought of Pauly as an elite player in this league? The guy is a very good player who before last year pretty much put up just above average numbers for his position, nothing spectacular.

 

Just because he's had a long career of being good doesn't make him a hall of famer.

[iamshack]

500 homeruns or not, has anyone ever ever ever thought of Pauly as an elite player in this league? The guy is a very good player who before last year pretty much put up just above average numbers for his position, nothing spectacular.

 

Just because he's had a long career of being good doesn't make him a hall of famer.

Take a look at some of the other people in the HoF.

 

I grew up in much of Eddie Murray's prime. He was a great hitter, but certainly never struck me as an "elite" player.

[southsider2k5]

IF, PK does get to 500 HR...I have to think he compares pretty favorably to guys like Eddie Murray, Orlando Cepda, Tony Perez, etc....although I will admit their are just a ton of big-hitting 1b's coming out of this era that are probably clean....

 

I didn't see Cepeda or Perez, but looking at Eddie Murray he was an eight time all-star, six times top 5 MVP balloting, including two runner's up, and a Rookie of the Year award. He also had 3 gold gloves and two silver slugger awards. And I will say again, 500 homers in that era means a lot more to me.

[witesoxfan]

500 homeruns or not, has anyone ever ever ever thought of Pauly as an elite player in this league? The guy is a very good player who before last year pretty much put up just above average numbers for his position, nothing spectacular.

 

Just because he's had a long career of being good doesn't make him a hall of famer.

 

From 2004 to 2006 and last year I have thought of him as a top 5-10 1Bman in the entire game.

 

That's only 4 years. If he has some continuation of the success he had last year this year - and he has thus far - we can look back and say he was elite. It is possible to look at guys and think they are elite and really their numbers don't wow you, while there are others that you don't think are elite and their numbers are really, really good. I don't think of Matt Holliday as the best outfielder in the game, but he has the highest WAR of all outfielders in the entire game from 2008 to 2010.

[The Ginger Kid]

What if Konerko spent 12-15 years with the Yankees instead of the White Sox, would that make a difference? Considering he had the same stats.

 

I don't know. I'm just playing the devil's advocate.

That is such a great point.

[Texsox]

I disagree with you guys. I think if he reaches the 500 HR milestone, he will definitely make the HoF, and I think he gets in because the writers will reward him for being a clean player in an era of dirty players.

 

Maybe not definitely, but I'd place his chances at 80% or better.

[iamshack]

I didn't see Cepeda or Perez, but looking at Eddie Murray he was an eight time all-star, six times top 5 MVP balloting, including two runner's up, and a Rookie of the Year award. He also had 3 gold gloves and two silver slugger awards. And I will say again, 500 homers in that era means a lot more to me.

Point taken.

 

I think PK puts up these numbers in any era though. He just came along when a lot of other guys benefitted from steroids and the smaller ballparks.

[southsider2k5]

Point taken.

 

I think PK puts up these numbers in any era though. He just came along when a lot of other guys benefitted from steroids and the smaller ballparks.

 

I'd think he would too, but it is hard to separate out all of that noise and find guys who were clean. That will cloud HOF balloting for decades because baseball was so slow to even act like it had a problem. Hell they still haven't fixed HGH.

[SoxFan1]

He's only had 5 seasons of 100+ RBI. I think that would hold him back. If he gets to 500 HR, he has a better shot. But I think it's doubtful.

[maggsmaggs]

I think people need to remember statistics are relative. It's nearly impossible to compare statistics across eras and say 500 HRs in 1960 was the same as 500 HRs in 2011. You have to compare Konerko's numbers to players of his era and when you do that, he just doesn't stack up. It's like saying Roy Halladay is nowhere near the pitcher Cy Young was because his career ERA is higher and he has far less wins. Roy Halladay has defined the 2000s in my opinion as a starting pitcher. But when you compare Roy Halladay to anyone now or the last 10 years, he is the best pitcher in the game.

Edited May 9, 2011 by maggsmaggs

[southsider2k5]

I think people need to remember statistics are relative. It's nearly impossible to compare statistics across eras and say 500 HRs in 1960 was the same as 500 HRs in 2011. You have to compare Konerko's numbers to players of his era and when you do that, he just doesn't stack up. It's like saying Roy Halladay is nowhere near the pitcher Cy Young was because his career ERA is higher and he has far less wins. Roy Halladay has defined the 2000s in my opinion as a starting pitcher. But when you compare Roy Halladay to anyone, he is the best pitcher in the game and damn well has been for the last decade pretty much.

 

That is the exact reason while I think Pauly is on the outside looking in.

[witesoxfan]

I'd think he would too, but it is hard to separate out all of that noise and find guys who were clean. That will cloud HOF balloting for decades because baseball was so slow to even act like it had a problem. Hell they still haven't fixed HGH.

 

I don't think any of the 4 major sports have done anything about HGH. And really, steroids seem to have been viewed more critically in baseball than they have football, where players are still pretty regularly found to be doping. It seems to me that there are very few major leaguers who are suspended for steroid use anymore, and a lot of that probably has to do with the fact that the minor leagues weed out those players who need performance enhancers to continue to move up.

 

He's only had 5 seasons of 100+ RBI. I think that would hold him back. If he gets to 500 HR, he has a better shot. But I think it's doubtful.

 

I don't think that will be a problem at all. Even older baseball writers are beginning to understand that there is a vast difference between numbers that depend upon the team and those that are due to the player themselves. Felix Hernandez won the Cy Young last year after winning only 13 games all year. Even just 5 years ago, that would have been held against him.

 

(it's pretty absurd to think that he averaged more than 7.1 IP a start, had an ERA of 2.27, and still only won 13 games)

[WCSox]

Was he ever a top 5 vote getter for MVP?

 

Good point, and this is why PK isn't HOF material. Career numbers are nice, but you need to be truly dominant at your position for a number of years to be a serious HOF candidate. PK has never done that.

 

[oldsox]

For consideration to the HOF, writers will compare him to others at the same position for the same period. One other first baseman who has played in the same years as PK is Todd Helton of the Rockies. Not quite as many homers, more doubles, RBI's and hits, plus a career BA of .324. And a few gold gloves. Yet, Helton, if he quit today, would probably have no chance. If he plays two more years, gets his hit total up to 2600, he might have a chance, like PK if he has 2-3 more power years. Another guy on the edge is Chipper Jones.

 

On the steroid subject brought up earlier, I would be interested in who other posters feel used HGH but did not get caught.

[BigSqwert]

I would be interested in who other posters feel used HGH but did not get caught.

 

Brent Lillibridge

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Konerko would have to play until he is about 42 a strong consideration. By that time he should be at 550+, maybe close to 600 HR if he somehow continues to hit 30+ on average.

 

But I agree w/ whoever said if he was on the Yankees, he would pretty much be a lock.

[Chisoxfn]

For consideration to the HOF, writers will compare him to others at the same position for the same period. One other first baseman who has played in the same years as PK is Todd Helton of the Rockies. Not quite as many homers, more doubles, RBI's and hits, plus a career BA of .324. And a few gold gloves. Yet, Helton, if he quit today, would probably have no chance. If he plays two more years, gets his hit total up to 2600, he might have a chance, like PK if he has 2-3 more power years. Another guy on the edge is Chipper Jones.

 

On the steroid subject brought up earlier, I would be interested in who other posters feel used HGH but did not get caught.

Chipper is one of the greatest switch hitters to ever play the game. He's a first ballot HOF'er, imo, and was the best at his position for a long time.

 

In regards to Paulie, if he hits 500HR's, he's in. I don't think of him as a HOF player, rather a really good player, ala Ventura/Mark Grace/etc, but that 500 plateau is special, especially since the only people that won't get in with that many HR's are gonna be the steroid guys. Outside of those players that were roiding up a ton, 500HR's still means a lot.

 

[BigSqwert]

I don't think he gets to 500.