How to Get Viciedo in the Line UP

[Lillian]

There is another point here regarding something a little less tangible.

When you have 4 key players under performing as badly as Pierre, Beckham, Rios and Dunn all have this season, perhaps you need to make a change just to let everyone be reminded that there is such a thing as accountability.

 

You need Rios' defense in CF.

Dunn is a big contract, and a potential force, with a very consistent long term track record. He has to be in the lineup if just by virtue of his left handed presence.

Beckham has so much promise, and has shown flashes already in his young career. You can justify giving him some slack.

Therefore, by process of elimination, J. P. has to sit, or be gone.

 

Moreover, you have to consider the young player toiling in the minors, in an attempt to prove he is worthy of being promoted.

What kind of signal does it send to all minor leaguers when they have to remain there even though they are doing their job, while veterans take their spot on the Big League roster, even though they "suck"?

Imagine how demoralizing it would be to be putting great numbers at AAA and not be given a chance, because Juan Pierre was "untouchable" at your position. When you put it that way, it really does sound absurd, doesn't it?

[ILMOU]

Really, yes, we do know that is true.

 

Juan Pierre flat out has lost the ability to catch baseballs. Adam Dunn in LF right now wouldn't be much worse than Juan Pierre.

 

I think it's a mental thing. It's the "Yips" if you will. Every time a ball comes to his glove he's thinking about the 9 other times he dropped a ball this season and the ball bounds off his glove.

 

Who cares if a guy has less range in LF if the guy with more range can't catch the ball?

 

This is the sad truth. Pierre was semi-tolerable last year when this wasn't the case. No longer.

[Jerksticks]

I'm with Lillian. Just get JP off the field. I can't take it anymore.

 

 

I know. This will take some KW intervention. Simply calling up Viciedo won't guarantee playing time because like somebody else mentioned, Ozzie won't play him over Pierre. JP needs off the team. Lillibridge does everything he does better. I love The Bridge.

[Chicago White Sox]

You guys might as well forget about moving Pierre. He's not going to be benched and he's certainly not going to be DFAed. I get that he's off to a bad start, but I think the best we can hope for is that he straightens himself out and reverts back to norm.

Reverts back to form? Offensively, he was never very good to begin with. His offensive value was entirely tied to SBs and IMO he has appeared to have lost a step. That's not going to magically come back. To make matters worse, he has a constant green light and will continue to run into outs. I don't see Ozzie taking that privilege away anytime soon and if he did, Ozzie would be admitting Pierre has zero to offer offensively. On the defensive side, his value has been tied to his range, so if he has lost a step he's less valuable there too. The dropped flyballs are just icing on the cake. In theory, the issue should go away, but it's been a month and a half now. How much longer do wait?

 

Right now, Pierre is providing negative production if that makes sense. Any replacement level player could come in and provide better results. Best case scenario, he stops dropping fly balls and becomes replacement level. We have a young player we could plug in the lineup that would destroy him offensively and come close defensively. There is no excuse for him not being up here at this point. We know what Juan Pierre is now and it's bad. Go with the better option in Viciedo. I support KW on most of his moves, but if he's afraid to DFA Pierre and improve our chances of winning a division title because he's afraid to hurt Pierre's feelings, then bring on the Rick Hahn era now.

[caulfield12]

There is another point here regarding something a little less tangible.

When you have 4 key players under performing as badly as Pierre, Beckham, Rios and Dunn all have this season, perhaps you need to make a change just to let everyone be reminded that there is such a thing as accountability.

 

You need Rios' defense in CF.

Dunn is a big contract, and a potential force, with a very consistent long term track record. He has to be in the lineup if just by virtue of his left handed presence.

Beckham has so much promise, and has shown flashes already in his young career. You can justify giving him some slack.

Therefore, by process of elimination, J. P. has to sit, or be gone.

 

Moreover, you have to consider the young player toiling in the minors, in an attempt to prove he is worthy of being promoted.

What kind of signal does it send to all minor leaguers when they have to remain there even though they are doing their job, while veterans take their spot on the Big League roster, even though they "suck"?

Imagine how demoralizing it would be to be putting great numbers at AAA and not be given a chance, because Juan Pierre was "untouchable" at your position. When you put it that way, it really does sound absurd, doesn't it?

 

We're not talking Mike Stanton, Eric Hosmer and Heyward here waiting in the wings.

 

Viciedo is still in the first 6-8 months of making yet another defensive transition (his 3rd at most recent count) and Jordan Danks was recently K'ing at a 40% clip.

 

The White Sox would be doing Danks a disservice to promote him simply based on a hot 2-3 week time span if he's just going to end up like Brian Anderson.

 

 

In some ways, we're lucky we're not the Twins. Because of the contracts for Nathan, Mauer, Morneau, Pavano and Cuddyer, they were forced to jettison JJ Hardy, Orlando Hudson, Punto, Guerrier, Rauch, Crain and Fuentes.

 

As you can tell by glancing at their current stats (and these guys are coming from AA/AAA teams that had the worst combined winning percentage in all of baseball last year and are close again this year), none of those guys (especially in the bullpen) are close to ready.

 

They have their Tosoni, Revere (one of their top prospects but by all reports not 100% ready defensively), Butera, Rene Rivera, Repko, Tolbert, Casilla, Hoey, Burnett, Luke Hughes, D. Hughes, etc. All of those guys are failing miserably.

 

Of the whole group, Luke Hughes is the only one who legitimately should be in the big leagues right now. Hoey is up to justify his being one of the key components in an offseason trade.

 

At least the White Sox have the luxury of veteran players like Teahen and Pierre and Pena/Gray protecting other prospects from being overexposed or having their confidence undermined. If this team fails and is out of the race, there'll be at least 3 months to see with Danks, Flowers, Viciedo, Escobar, Milledge (maybe) and some of the relievers like Bruney, Kinney, Lindsay, Carter, etc., can do.

 

Lillibridge isn't a top prospect either....not since 3-4 seasons ago. No worries about setting back his career. And Vizquel provides even more insurance, with Castro.

 

Edited May 12, 2011 by caulfield12

[soxfan-kwman]

It's too late now, but Getz at 2B would be nice & Beckham at 3B. Beckham played a good 3B. Wouldn't want to change now, but Getz, Pierre, & occasionally Lillibridge in the line-up together is a bunch of speed. With Getz batting on the top of the order we have room for a power hitter like Viciedo.

 

Sure 3B is supposed to be a power hitting position, but we haven't had power there since Crede so Beckham would have been good for years at 3B. Yes, Getz got hurt once a year, but between Omar & Lillibridge we have depth.

 

Getting back to right now, I don't see the Sox bringing up "The Tank" unless somebody gets injured.

 

 

[southsider2k5]

Lillibridge is a good mention. The reality is that if Pierre is yanked from the line up, Lillibridge the next guy in line, as he profiles as a leadoffish hitter in Ozzie's world.

[knightni]

Juan Pierre is sporting an awkward porn 'stache right now as well.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Juan Pierre is sporting an awkward porn 'stache right now as well.

 

At least it's not as awkward as Jordan's new Hitler stache

[Steve9347]

I don't know if a bat like Viciedo's is really needed right now. I'm want to see Jordan Danks sometime soon.

[oldsox]

Looks like Pierre got took old.

[Rowand44]

I don't know if a bat like Viciedo's is really needed right now. I'm want to see Jordan Danks sometime soon.

No you don't. Hot streak or not, he's got a loooooooooooong way to go.

[SoxFan562004]

It's too late now, but Getz at 2B would be nice & Beckham at 3B. Beckham played a good 3B. Wouldn't want to change now, but Getz, Pierre, & occasionally Lillibridge in the line-up together is a bunch of speed. With Getz batting on the top of the order we have room for a power hitter like Viciedo.

 

Sure 3B is supposed to be a power hitting position, but we haven't had power there since Crede so Beckham would have been good for years at 3B. Yes, Getz got hurt once a year, but between Omar & Lillibridge we have depth.

 

Getting back to right now, I don't see the Sox bringing up "The Tank" unless somebody gets injured.

Getz isn't very good. I don't mean to disrespect the guy, but he has something like a 67 OPS + and an OPS of .585 and, going off memory here, he was a solid 2b, but nothing spectacular. If the White Sox wanted Getz or a Getz like player they would have zero problem finding somebody who fits that bill.

[caulfield12]

The fact remains that he's the only true impact bat we have in the minors and we're not going to be adding to the payroll, so it will have to be Viciedo or Danks.

 

I suppose in a very worst-case scenario they could try McPherson, but that's about as likely as them giving a starting job to Michael Restovich, Maurice Gartrell, David Cook or that LH 1B we picked up from the D-Backs who was like a poor man's Ross Gload without a position.

[Soxfest]

You have no idea if that is actually true or not.

It is simple addition by subtraction to me. Pierre has the 2nd worst fielding percentage (.938) of any starting position player in the AL.

Edited May 12, 2011 by Soxfest

[The Ginger Kid]

if they would keep pena and DFA gray, do you really think they'll DFA JP?

[Milkman delivers]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Ozzie Guillen always finds a way to play a guy way too much who, if he weren't on the Sox, would be out of baseball. He does this every year. He develops a man crush on some scrub and plays him every single day.

Edited May 12, 2011 by Milkman delivers

[Wanne]

If you need to adjust the lineup right now with DV...move Q back to left (where he should be anyway) and have Lilli start in RF (I heard he's made a couple of OK plays out there). Personally he's not a starter...but DV should get a shot here soon. Pierre Kevin Buckman has to go though. There's different lineups Ozzie could go with. But sadly...he won't bench a guy who's hitting around .250. Hell...he won't bench guys hitting around .200 either (Beckham). Bottom line is this team took off with Omar in the lineup consistantly last year. My patience has worn out with Pierre and Beckham.

[BearSox]

Dude had a fluke stretch, and now you are going to project that as the norm, and use that to endorse a guy you have never seen play LF? Uh, ok.

Juan Pierre has always been a terrible outfielder. If anything, last year was the fluke stretch where he was actually good in the OF.

[Milkman delivers]

There is another point here regarding something a little less tangible.

When you have 4 key players under performing as badly as Pierre, Beckham, Rios and Dunn all have this season, perhaps you need to make a change just to let everyone be reminded that there is such a thing as accountability.

 

You need Rios' defense in CF.

Dunn is a big contract, and a potential force, with a very consistent long term track record. He has to be in the lineup if just by virtue of his left handed presence.

Beckham has so much promise, and has shown flashes already in his young career. You can justify giving him some slack.

Therefore, by process of elimination, J. P. has to sit, or be gone.

 

Moreover, you have to consider the young player toiling in the minors, in an attempt to prove he is worthy of being promoted.

What kind of signal does it send to all minor leaguers when they have to remain there even though they are doing their job, while veterans take their spot on the Big League roster, even though they "suck"?

Imagine how demoralizing it would be to be putting great numbers at AAA and not be given a chance, because Juan Pierre was "untouchable" at your position. When you put it that way, it really does sound absurd, doesn't it?

 

Nobody listens to me

[Wanne]

Speaking of accountability...the piece on espn's site about the Pirates climb back to respectability and Clint Hurdle's presense now...something in there really caught my eye.

But perhaps the biggest reason for hope these days is the energy and positivity the manager has breathed into a franchise that needs all the energy and positivity it can muster. And that's not all that Hurdle has brought.

 

"He's made these guys more accountable," one NL scout said. "And young players need that. I like [ex-manager] John Russell a lot, but he seemed like a guy who was too worried about what people thought of him. This guy doesn't worry about what people think of him. This is a guy you can't walk away from. When he speaks, you have to listen."

 

The Anti-Ozzie...

[BearSox]

Whether or not Lillibridge will be able to produce everyday is not the question. The question is why is the guy that shows up whenever he is called upon, has consistently put up good AB's when not given consistent AB's, and plays hard not been given a f***ing chance to get some PT when we have guys like Rios, Beckham, and Morel all starting everyday and struggling to hit .200?

 

I'm not saying put Lillibridge out there everyday, but damn, can he at least get a couple starts a week rotating between positions?

 

Also, I wish we could see more Vizquel out there, but at his age, I don't think it would be smart for him to be getting anymore than 1 start per week.

[Chicago White Sox]

I don't know if a bat like Viciedo's is really needed right now. I'm want to see Jordan Danks sometime soon.

No offense, but I don't understand the logic of this post. Viciedo is a very good hitter. Do we not want those? He'd be replacing Pierre, so we'd be receiving an increase in AVG, OBP, and SLG, while lowering the team's CSs. That sounds like a significant upgrade across the board.

 

As for Danks, how is he the hitter we need? He does nothing better than Viciedo other maybe draw a couple more walks and steal a few more bases. Does that make him a better fit for this offense? I'm hopeful that Danks is making progress with his swing, but you do not call up a guy with his strikeout history because a good couple of weeks. He would most likely get destroyed up here, which would simply stifle any progress he was making.

 

Viciedo is ready and should be up here right now. Unfortunately, Ozzie and KW are willing to throw away this season by giving our worst hitter the most at bats on the team. Hopefully it will at least cost them their jobs.

[elrockinMT]

Juan Pierre is struggling in the field. Never a reeal good defender he has not shown us a whole lot of positive so far this year. Viciedo will be up at some point. Is he ready for LF or RF is the question. But, JP is a veteran and regardless of what we are judging him by as far as recent defensive lapses I think he is still the LF starter, but saying that he better know DV is in the wings

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Whether or not Lillibridge will be able to produce everyday is not the question. The question is why is the guy that shows up whenever he is called upon, has consistently put up good AB's when not given consistent AB's, and plays hard not been given a f***ing chance to get some PT when we have guys like Rios, Beckham, and Morel all starting everyday and struggling to hit .200?

 

I'm not saying put Lillibridge out there everyday, but damn, can he at least get a couple starts a week rotating between positions?

 

Also, I wish we could see more Vizquel out there, but at his age, I don't think it would be smart for him to be getting anymore than 1 start per week.

 

I agree. We all know his game has limitations, but since the end of last year the guy just keeps coming through whenever he's called upon. In no way is he a long term answer but we have some guys really struggling right now. Would playing him a little more really hurt the team right now? I doubt it.