Milkman delivers Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 14, 2011 -> 06:39 AM) People are upset about losing Jeff Gray? Jeff Gray? Really? People, he did fine, but it was 13 innings in garbage time. If he was as valuable as you think, the White Sox wouldn't have had to place him on waivers, they could have traded him for something, anything, but apparently no team was willing to give KW anything. I'm so sick of the small-mindedness from people who act like they don't understand what people are angry about. Nobody is upset that Jeff Gray is gone. Nobody believes he is some great reliever. We're upset because he was sent packing in favor of a worse player. You all understand this, but it's more fun to create a straw man argument and tear it apart. WAH JEFF GRAY IS THE BESTEST PICTURE EVER WHY DID WE KICK HIM OUT11!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 Gray is 29. He is what he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 QUOTE (Brian @ May 14, 2011 -> 11:57 AM) Gray is 29. He is what he is. And Pena is even worse than this guy so what exactly is the rationale for keeping Pena. I thought the goal was to have the best available players on your team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ May 14, 2011 -> 01:00 PM) And Pena is even worse than this guy so what exactly is the rationale for keeping Pena. I thought the goal was to have the best available players on your team. To be fair, if you look at the career numbers, Pena has been marginally better in his career, if not for the first month of this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 14, 2011 -> 12:02 PM) To be fair, if you look at the career numbers, Pena has been marginally better in his career, if not for the first month of this season. I'm sure that Pierre's career numbers are better than Viciedo's, too. The problem is that that change will never happen. We'll allow Pierre to flounder at the top of the lineup the entire year while getting the most at-bats on the team. This will also be great if we lose the division by a couple of games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ May 14, 2011 -> 01:09 PM) I'm sure that Pierre's career numbers are better than Viciedo's, too. The problem is that that change will never happen. We'll allow Pierre to flounder at the top of the lineup the entire year while getting the most at-bats on the team. This will also be great if we lose the division by a couple of games. Wait, Jeff Gray is a 21 year old prospect in AAA? Or are both 29 year old ish journeymen relievers with similar ceilings? You really think that the difference between Gray and Pena as the last guy out of the bullpen over the course of a full season is several wins? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ May 14, 2011 -> 11:56 AM) I'm so sick of the small-mindedness from people who act like they don't understand what people are angry about. Nobody is upset that Jeff Gray is gone. Nobody believes he is some great reliever. We're upset because he was sent packing in favor of a worse player. You all understand this, but it's more fun to create a straw man argument and tear it apart. WAH JEFF GRAY IS THE BESTEST PICTURE EVER WHY DID WE KICK HIM OUT11!!! Its not a straw man argument. Its common sense. It would be like if the Sox needed to get rid of a position player Dunn wouldn't be sent packing even though he's been far worse this year than almost everyone else. Its what is projected. Pena did some nice things at some point during each of his White Sox seasons. Moving forward, he's a much better bet to perform decently than Jeff Gray. If anything, the small-minded thinking is "hey this guy did pretty good in garbage time he needs to be kept" or the "a message has to be sent" garbage. I don't now how anyone can come to the conclusion that without a doubt Jeff Gray is a better pitcher than Tony Pena. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JorgeFabregas Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 Pena and Gray's FIP are very close this year and Gray has the higher xFIP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 14, 2011 -> 12:18 PM) Wait, Jeff Gray is a 21 year old prospect in AAA? Or are both 29 year old ish journeymen relievers with similar ceilings? You really think that the difference between Gray and Pena as the last guy out of the bullpen over the course of a full season is several wins? No, it's about two guys who have been better this season getting the shaft to the detriment of the team. And it doesn't have to be a difference of several wins. If you haven't noticed, we're a pretty s***ty team according to our record. We have absolutely no room for error, so we must put our very best options out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 14, 2011 -> 12:55 PM) Its not a straw man argument. Its common sense. It would be like if the Sox needed to get rid of a position player Dunn wouldn't be sent packing even though he's been far worse this year than almost everyone else. Its what is projected. Pena did some nice things at some point during each of his White Sox seasons. Moving forward, he's a much better bet to perform decently than Jeff Gray. If anything, the small-minded thinking is "hey this guy did pretty good in garbage time he needs to be kept" or the "a message has to be sent" garbage. I don't now how anyone can come to the conclusion that without a doubt Jeff Gray is a better pitcher than Tony Pena. So moving forward, who would help the team more between Pierre and Viciedo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ May 14, 2011 -> 01:06 PM) No, it's about two guys who have been better this season getting the shaft to the detriment of the team. And it doesn't have to be a difference of several wins. If you haven't noticed, we're a pretty s***ty team according to our record. We have absolutely no room for error, so we must put our very best options out there. And moving forward Tony Pena is a better option than Jeff Gray. Lillibridge is having a better season than Dunn. Why shouldn't he be in RF batting 3rd and Quentin DHing? Jeff Gray is not as good as Tony Pena. Edited May 14, 2011 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 14, 2011 -> 08:43 AM) All though I am shocked he got claimed so quickly. It was the Mariners and he was impressive against them. If Tony Pena was making the minimum or near which is what I assume Gray is making, he'd get claimed. Edited May 14, 2011 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 14, 2011 -> 01:08 PM) And moving forward Tony Pena is a better option than Jeff Gray. Lillibridge is having a better season than Dunn. Why shouldn't he be in RF batting 3rd and Quentin DHing? Now you're comparing the careers of Peña and Dunn, as if they're similar. Peña has been crap for quite some time, but he's been less crappy than Gray. But this year, Gray was noticeably outperforming him. Dunn is a consistent league leader in HR's and OBP. Let's not act like Dunn/Lillibridge and Peña/Gray are even remotely similar circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ May 14, 2011 -> 02:11 PM) Now you're comparing the careers of Peña and Dunn, as if they're similar. Peña has been crap for quite some time, but he's been less crappy than Gray. But this year, Gray was noticeably outperforming him. Dunn is a consistent league leader in HR's and OBP. Let's not act like Dunn/Lillibridge and Peña/Gray are even remotely similar circumstances. Let's not act like Pena/Gray and Pierre/Viciedo are even remotely similar circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ May 14, 2011 -> 01:11 PM) Now you're comparing the careers of Peña and Dunn, as if they're similar. Peña has been crap for quite some time, but he's been less crappy than Gray. But this year, Gray was noticeably outperforming him. Dunn is a consistent league leader in HR's and OBP. Let's not act like Dunn/Lillibridge and Peña/Gray are even remotely similar circumstances. They are the same. You're basing it on 10 IP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 14, 2011 -> 01:14 PM) Let's not act like Pena/Gray and Pierre/Viciedo are even remotely similar circumstances. Pierre/Viciedo is actually more important, as it effects every single game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ May 14, 2011 -> 02:17 PM) Pierre/Viciedo is actually more important, as it effects every single game. Agreed. So why are we caring about the one that affects whether or not we win in games where we're down by 7 runs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 14, 2011 -> 01:15 PM) They are the same. You're basing it on 10 IP. LOL you really believe those circumstances are the same? You're not an idiot, so I don't believe that to be the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 14, 2011 -> 01:17 PM) Agreed. So why are we caring about the one that affects whether or not we win in games where we're down by 7 runs? As I said, every single motherf***ing games matters right now. Every single inning pitched matters when you're down like the White Sox are and you need to mount a very serious comeback because of the incredible hole you've dug yourself into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Washington Posted May 14, 2011 Author Share Posted May 14, 2011 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ May 14, 2011 -> 04:58 AM) You mean like how the Blue Jays didn't release Frank Thomas in 2008, even though he was one of the greatest hitters of the previous 25 years and was a 500 home run hitter? The Blue Jays released Thomas because Thomas asked to be released. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 QUOTE (Pale Sox @ May 14, 2011 -> 03:38 PM) The Blue Jays released Thomas because Thomas asked to be released. But they ate a huge amount of money, too. Wasn't it something like $6 million? I wish I had a job that guaranteed me $6 million NOT TO PLAY/WORK for 3 months or so and my bosses would still pay me for doing nothing. Well, with corporate executives who get fired, I guess it's no different. Their "golden parachutes" pay them a heckuva lot more than Big Frank ever made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Washington Posted May 15, 2011 Author Share Posted May 15, 2011 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 14, 2011 -> 07:29 PM) But they ate a huge amount of money, too. Wasn't it something like $6 million? I wish I had a job that guaranteed me $6 million NOT TO PLAY/WORK for 3 months or so and my bosses would still pay me for doing nothing. Well, with corporate executives who get fired, I guess it's no different. Their "golden parachutes" pay them a heckuva lot more than Big Frank ever made. Thomas' beef was that he believed the Blue Jays prematurely benched him because his option vested on the premise he reached a certain number of AB's, and the Blue Jays didn't want him reaching that number. I'm not arguing any of your points, just clarifying the circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 QUOTE (Pale Sox @ May 14, 2011 -> 09:05 PM) Thomas' beef was that he believed the Blue Jays prematurely benched him because his option vested on the premise he reached a certain number of AB's, and the Blue Jays didn't want him reaching that number. I'm not arguing any of your points, just clarifying the circumstances. Well thanks for ruining my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.