How can the White Sox possibly lose money?

[southsider2k5]

The Sox are at 25k on the season, down from 27k last year, and that's before the late-season doldrums, if they happen.

 

And not counting the obvious higher number of non-spending by no shows.

[Balta1701]

And not counting the obvious higher number of non-spending by no shows.

Especially with the vacant park from April/May, this has to be huge too.

[Harry Chappas]

The gray area in this and I am not reading the thread is what they spend on players not on the major league roster, scounting, etc.

 

Who pays the minor league players?

 

Don't the White Sox have to support the minor league players that they sign?

 

This is the big difference in football and basketball and to a degree why hockey is kind of an unknown.

 

Who is paying Jared Mitchell?

 

 

[caulfield12]

So it's pretty fair to say we're down about 15-20% in revenues generated strictly from 81 gamedays.

 

And the team supposedly made $25 million in profit with a payroll roughly $25 million lower in 2010.

 

I suppose it makes sense...or it could be they're already planting the idea that the highest the payroll could possibly be in 2012 is $113 million or so (without Buehrle still in the fold, probably $95-105 million).

 

Of course, they're already saving some money with Edwin, Teahen and possibly Frasor leaving at the end of the season with Type B comp. coming back.

[Balta1701]

Of course, they're already saving some money with Edwin, Teahen and possibly Frasor leaving at the end of the season with Type B comp. coming back.

With current commitments, they're at about $110 million if Q and D1 stay and Buehrle departs, give or take about $2 million depending on exact arb numbers.

[southsider2k5]

With current commitments, they're at about $110 million if Q and D1 stay and Buehrle departs, give or take about $2 million depending on exact arb numbers.

 

Which means the only way Mark is back is if someone else gets traded. How sad.

[sin city sox fan]

Which means the only way Mark is back is if someone else gets traded. How sad.

 

Or if we win the World Series and season ticket sales soar.

[LittleHurt05]

How do CSN games make more than WGN games, when WGN reaches far more households??

 

Are all WGN Sox games broadcast nationally? I think Cubs games are, but I know that Blackhawks games are limited to WGN Chicago.

[iamshack]

Are all WGN Sox games broadcast nationally? I think Cubs games are, but I know that Blackhawks games are limited to WGN Chicago.

Yes, I watch them here in Vegas.

[caulfield12]

http://www.freep.com/article/20110809/SPOR...3/1050/sports02?

 

I thought this was an interesting way to assess the work of Dombrowski and Leyland...because the team's attendance has been up and he's secured the rotation through 2014 (Verlander, Scherzer, Porcello, Fister, Turner) then he's defined as a success?

 

Wow!

 

Good thing they weren't using those two criteria for KW.

 

It would be a big failure in both items, because the future of our rotation is anything but stable or predictable beginning 7 weeks from now or even this week.

 

 

 

Loved this response in the messages section at the bottom....

 

Dombrowski is 726-846 as Tigers GM - think the RED WINGS would RE-SIGN a GM that had a 46% WINNING PERCENTAGE???

 

DD has done MORE HARM THAN GOOD - HE'S ONLY WON ONCE, ONE WS, IN HIS WHOLE GD CAREER!!!!! STOP TREATING HIM LIKE A HOF GM WHEN HE'S CLEARLY NOT - HOW MUCH $$$ HAS DD WASTED??? ADD IT UP - OVER $100 MILLION!!!

 

DD hasn't won SQUAT HERE - is he WRITING HIS OWN CHECKS or is Ilitch now COMPLETELY SENILE???

 

Leyland's MENTAL health is everyone's concern - anyone who bats RYAN RAYBURN 3RD WILL LOSE EVERY TIME

 

BOYCOTT LITTLE CAESAR'S - I DON'T MISS IT AND MY VITALS HAVE IMPROVED SINCE I QUIT THAT INFERIOR PRODUCT

 

Now if they had WON a DIVISION TITLE since 1987 (or since I bought them in the 90's) and had BETTER than the 11th best record in the MLB out of the 30 teams (making the Tigers SECOND TIER, MIDDLE OF THE PACK) there might be some justification

 

The AL Central is a JOKE - the Tigers are 3RD in EVERY OTHER DIVISION

 

Detroit is a BORING PLACE in the summer - CoPa and the casinos are the draw, not the product on the field

 

How's INGE doing on TOLEDO where he BELONGS??? Heard as much about him lately as ZUMAYA!!

 

Funny how the Tigers have WON MORE since K-INGE went DOWN - watch Leyland bring him up in September and the WS take the AL Central

[LittleHurt05]

Yes, I watch them here in Vegas.

 

That's what I thought, but the Hawks threw me off. Then again, who the heck else watches hockey anyway?

[southsider2k5]

That's what I thought, but the Hawks threw me off. Then again, who the heck else watches hockey anyway?

[LittleHurt05]

 

That was spoken by a big hockey fan and Hawks season ticket holder

[iamshack]

I'm just waiting for DA to find this thread...

[caulfield12]

Actually kind of created this with Dick Allen in mind.

 

Talking about this aspect of baseball is more interesting (to me) than Greg Walker threads.

[The Ginger Kid]

I assume, like any other business, the White Sox have projected earnings. If they fail to meet those projections then they could characterize that as a loss. But Jerry ain't going broke.

[caulfield12]

BUMP...as part of the general philosophical discussion of the future, management, marketing, rebuild vs. reload, etc.

[caulfield12]

FOR LDF

 

 

This doesn't factor in the new national broadcast rights deal for MLB, which someone in this thread pointed out provides $78 million guaranteed per team (as opposed to the previous $14-15 million)...and then the new regional rights deal, where a realistic number for the White Sox would be somewhere between the Mariners (around $120 million) and Rangers.

 

(Of course, in the last year or so the Dodgers and Astros situations have caused some media skeptics to predict a "bust" in these RSN riches before the Sox can make their own deal. The Cubs are already positioning/posturing/predicting.)

 

That will be a BIT more complicated with JR and Co. controlling 40% of Comcast at the moment.

 

 

 

At any rate, we're easily capable of supporting $125 million...but, knowing the fans are going to be skeptical, they're not QUITE willing to go all in again because that approach in 2011 led to four pretty disappointing seasons (other than Abreu/Sale and the 2012 season until mid-September).

Edited January 26, 2015 by caulfield12

[Chisoxfn]

FOR LDF

 

 

This doesn't factor in the new national broadcast rights deal for MLB, which someone in this thread pointed out provides $78 million guaranteed per team (as opposed to the previous $14-15 million)...and then the new regional rights deal, where a realistic number for the White Sox would be somewhere between the Mariners (around $120 million) and Rangers.

 

(Of course, in the last year or so the Dodgers and Astros situations have caused some media skeptics to predict a "bust" in these RSN riches before the Sox can make their own deal. The Cubs are already positioning/posturing/predicting.)

 

That will be a BIT more complicated with JR and Co. controlling 40% of Comcast at the moment.

 

 

 

At any rate, we're easily capable of supporting $125 million...but, knowing the fans are going to be skeptical, they're not QUITE willing to go all in again because that approach in 2011 led to four pretty disappointing seasons (other than Abreu/Sale and the 2012 season until mid-September).

Caufield are you saying the regional # alone is $120M / yr plus the 78M national deal?

[LDF]

FOR LDF

 

 

This doesn't factor in the new national broadcast rights deal for MLB, which someone in this thread pointed out provides $78 million guaranteed per team (as opposed to the previous $14-15 million)...and then the new regional rights deal, where a realistic number for the White Sox would be somewhere between the Mariners (around $120 million) and Rangers.

 

(Of course, in the last year or so the Dodgers and Astros situations have caused some media skeptics to predict a "bust" in these RSN riches before the Sox can make their own deal. The Cubs are already positioning/posturing/predicting.)

 

That will be a BIT more complicated with JR and Co. controlling 40% of Comcast at the moment.

 

 

 

At any rate, we're easily capable of supporting $125 million...but, knowing the fans are going to be skeptical, they're not QUITE willing to go all in again because that approach in 2011 led to four pretty disappointing seasons (other than Abreu/Sale and the 2012 season until mid-September).

 

ahhh i feel so honored.... hahaha i love it.

 

this was sooo sweeet of a response i just can't make a reply.

[Chisoxfn]

Caufield are you saying the regional # alone is $120M / yr plus the 78M national deal?

Nevermind..I looked it up. Yep, they are at 120M + 78M so $198M before factoring in stadium and merchandising revenues. From a cost perspective you obviously have player, stadium maintenance, etc. But man, with that type of initial return, it certainly means you can easily put up a $120M payroll no problem (without even sneezing about losing money). Phils TV deal calls for $200M annually (5 B over 25 yrs). The Angels are probably a better comparison than the other teams and their deal calls for a rights average of $95M and an annual average of $147M. The reason I use the Angels as a good example is they kind of share an extremely large market (albeit they aren't directly in the LA market) with another team and are the "second" fiddle team. Clearly Angels have been the more successful franchise over the past decade from a consistency perspective and I am not sure on the ratings draw they bring.

 

Part of this also happens to deal with when teams have signed these lucrative contracts as all the top deals have been entered into the past couple of years and its been a while since Sox negotiated and none of us know what the value is of their equity stake.

[caulfield12]

http://bizofbaseball.com/index.php?option=...&Itemid=203

 

This breaks down the numbers for the new national baseball contracts.

 

They essentially doubled from 2013, with all teams previously receiving $24 million bumping up to $50 million last season just from those three networks alone.

 

I would imagine the other $28 million has to be coming from MLB as a 1/30th share of all their various media properties like MLBTV, Gameday Audio, At-Bat, etc.

 

 

 

Angels. Rangers. Mariners. Cardinals. Somewhere in that zone is where the White Sox should be for their tv rights deal. At any rate, we shouldn't be looking up to the Tigers for too much longer.

Edited January 26, 2015 by caulfield12

[LDF]

Nevermind..I looked it up. Yep, they are at 120M + 78M so $198M before factoring in stadium and merchandising revenues. From a cost perspective you obviously have player, stadium maintenance, etc. But man, with that type of initial return, it certainly means you can easily put up a $120M payroll no problem (without even sneezing about losing money). Phils TV deal calls for $200M annually (5 B over 25 yrs). The Angels are probably a better comparison than the other teams and their deal calls for a rights average of $95M and an annual average of $147M. The reason I use the Angels as a good example is they kind of share an extremely large market (albeit they aren't directly in the LA market) with another team and are the "second" fiddle team. Clearly Angels have been the more successful franchise over the past decade from a consistency perspective and I am not sure on the ratings draw they bring.

 

Part of this also happens to deal with when teams have signed these lucrative contracts as all the top deals have been entered into the past couple of years and its been a while since Sox negotiated and none of us know what the value is of their equity stake.

 

so let me rehash a statement that was made some weeks back.

 

'unless the fans can show interest, we the sox org can not afford a payroll over 105 million. maybe a little more."

 

i am using red to emphasis this.

Edited January 26, 2015 by LDF

[caulfield12]

so let me rehash a statement that was made some weeks back.

 

'unless the fans can show interest, we the sox org can not afford a payroll over 105 million. maybe a little more."

 

i am using red to emphasis this.

 

 

You've just thrown a center-cut Dylan Axelrod fastball with no movement into Dick Allen's wheelhouse.

[LDF]

Nevermind..I looked it up. Yep, they are at 120M + 78M so $198M before factoring in stadium and merchandising revenues. From a cost perspective you obviously have player, stadium maintenance, etc. But man, with that type of initial return, it certainly means you can easily put up a $120M payroll no problem (without even sneezing about losing money). Phils TV deal calls for $200M annually (5 B over 25 yrs). The Angels are probably a better comparison than the other teams and their deal calls for a rights average of $95M and an annual average of $147M. The reason I use the Angels as a good example is they kind of share an extremely large market (albeit they aren't directly in the LA market) with another team and are the "second" fiddle team. Clearly Angels have been the more successful franchise over the past decade from a consistency perspective and I am not sure on the ratings draw they bring.

 

Part of this also happens to deal with when teams have signed these lucrative contracts as all the top deals have been entered into the past couple of years and its been a while since Sox negotiated and none of us know what the value is of their equity stake.

 

now you know why that sCrub team from the morthside is pissed and was saying they can't wait until their contract is up, what, 2017. talk about a team that is doing arse backward. now is the time to take over chi media for the summer boys.