K-Dubya vs. Soxtalk

[Texsox]

I am amazed at how much better at being a GM soxtalk posters are compared to the guys who are paid big bucks to do this job. Over the years, so many people here knew right away certain trades were bad.

[Steve9347]

Ugh.

[maggsmaggs]

When I criticize KW, it's not because I think I am smarter baseball-wise, because obviously I don't believe that. My criticism manifests itself because he is a lousy general manager relative to others in his business.

 

Some facts since he took over:

 

Record: 866-795 (.521%)

Playoff appearances: 2/10 years

 

Salary rankings:

2011: 5/30 (1st in division)

2010: 7/30 (2nd in division, Detroit)

2009: 12/30 (2nd in division, Detroit)

2008: 5/30 (2nd in division, Detroit)

2007: 5/30 (1st in division)

2006: 4/30 (1st in division)

2005: 13/30 (1st in division)

2004: 15/30 (1st in division)

2003: 22/30 (2nd in division, Minnesota)

2002: 18/30 (2nd in division, Cleveland)

2001: 14/30 (2nd in division, Cleveland)

 

So we have won TWO DIVISIONS in 10 years with the highest payroll in the division 50% of the time and the second highest in the division the other 50% of the time. We are not smarter than KW, we just realize that there are plenty of baseball people smarter than KW yet somehow we are stuck with him for eternity it feels. The AL Central for most of the 2000s has been one of the worst divisions in baseball coupling horrid teams (Royals every year, Tigers early 2000s, Indians late 2000s) with incredibly miniscule payrolls (pretty much everyone besides us and the Tigers who only recently boosted up their payroll). Given these immense advantages, we still have been to the playoffs only twice under his reign. Any GM would get flack for his paltry success rate, but add in the lack of strong competition for most his tenure, it makes those two division titles look trivial.

 

And one last point, for any GM you would rather have teams that made the playoffs year in and year out than a flash-in-the-pan World Series title year. Yes, the glory may be awesome that one year, but making the playoffs year in and year out is a sign of a great organization.

Edited May 15, 2011 by maggsmaggs

[fathom]

Pretty sure everyone on here liked the Quentin trade, hated the second Swisher trade, and despised the Brandon Allen trade.

[fathom]

Better question tex would be if you think KW has done a good job with his trades/transactions the last 3 years?

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

KW is certainly better at smaller moves than he is bigger ones. Any trade involving 3 players or less, I am confident in.

Edited May 15, 2011 by JoeCoolMan24

[BigSqwert]

When I criticize KW, it's not because I think I am smarter baseball-wise, because obviously I don't believe that. My criticism manifests itself because he is a lousy general manager relative to others in his business.

 

Some facts since he took over:

 

Record: 866-795 (.521%)

Playoff appearances: 2/10 years

 

Salary rankings:

2011: 5/30 (1st in division)

2010: 7/30 (2nd in division, Detroit)

2009: 12/30 (2nd in division, Detroit)

2008: 5/30 (2nd in division, Detroit)

2007: 5/30 (1st in division)

2006: 4/30 (1st in division)

2005: 13/30 (1st in division)

2004: 15/30 (1st in division)

2003: 22/30 (2nd in division, Minnesota)

2002: 18/30 (2nd in division, Cleveland)

2001: 14/30 (2nd in division, Cleveland)

 

So we have won TWO DIVISIONS in 10 years with the highest payroll in the division 50% of the time and the second highest in the division the other 50% of the time. We are not smarter than KW, we just realize that there are plenty of baseball people smarter than KW yet somehow we are stuck with him for eternity it feels. The AL Central for most of the 2000s has been one of the worst divisions in baseball coupling horrid teams (Royals every year, Tigers early 2000s, Indians late 2000s) with incredibly miniscule payrolls (pretty much everyone besides us and the Tigers who only recently boosted up their payroll). Given these immense advantages, we still have been to the playoffs only twice under his reign. Any GM would get flack for his paltry success rate, but add in the lack of strong competition for most his tenure, it makes those two division titles look trivial.

 

And one last point, for any GM you would rather have teams that made the playoffs year in and year out than a flash-in-the-pan World Series title year. Yes, the glory may be awesome that one year, but making the playoffs year in and year out is a sign of a great organization.

 

I love you.

 

[JohnCangelosi]

Better question tex would be if you think KW has done a good job with his trades/transactions the last 3 years?

Exactly. His recent performance has been garbage on trades and transactions. I give him credit for the Quentin pickup and getting Danks. But the amount of damage done from the Swisher DEALS cannot be understated in my opinion.

[Milkman delivers]

When I criticize KW, it's not because I think I am smarter baseball-wise, because obviously I don't believe that. My criticism manifests itself because he is a lousy general manager relative to others in his business.

 

Some facts since he took over:

 

Record: 866-795 (.521%)

Playoff appearances: 2/10 years

 

Salary rankings:

2011: 5/30 (1st in division)

2010: 7/30 (2nd in division, Detroit)

2009: 12/30 (2nd in division, Detroit)

2008: 5/30 (2nd in division, Detroit)

2007: 5/30 (1st in division)

2006: 4/30 (1st in division)

2005: 13/30 (1st in division)

2004: 15/30 (1st in division)

2003: 22/30 (2nd in division, Minnesota)

2002: 18/30 (2nd in division, Cleveland)

2001: 14/30 (2nd in division, Cleveland)

 

So we have won TWO DIVISIONS in 10 years with the highest payroll in the division 50% of the time and the second highest in the division the other 50% of the time. We are not smarter than KW, we just realize that there are plenty of baseball people smarter than KW yet somehow we are stuck with him for eternity it feels. The AL Central for most of the 2000s has been one of the worst divisions in baseball coupling horrid teams (Royals every year, Tigers early 2000s, Indians late 2000s) with incredibly miniscule payrolls (pretty much everyone besides us and the Tigers who only recently boosted up their payroll). Given these immense advantages, we still have been to the playoffs only twice under his reign. Any GM would get flack for his paltry success rate, but add in the lack of strong competition for most his tenure, it makes those two division titles look trivial.

 

And one last point, for any GM you would rather have teams that made the playoffs year in and year out than a flash-in-the-pan World Series title year. Yes, the glory may be awesome that one year, but making the playoffs year in and year out is a sign of a great organization.

 

Reading this, I thought I might've written it myself while I was drunk last night Bravo!

[Jordan4life_2007]

When I criticize KW, it's not because I think I am smarter baseball-wise, because obviously I don't believe that. My criticism manifests itself because he is a lousy general manager relative to others in his business.

 

Some facts since he took over:

 

Record: 866-795 (.521%)

Playoff appearances: 2/10 years

 

Salary rankings:

2011: 5/30 (1st in division)

2010: 7/30 (2nd in division, Detroit)

2009: 12/30 (2nd in division, Detroit)

2008: 5/30 (2nd in division, Detroit)

2007: 5/30 (1st in division)

2006: 4/30 (1st in division)

2005: 13/30 (1st in division)

2004: 15/30 (1st in division)

2003: 22/30 (2nd in division, Minnesota)

2002: 18/30 (2nd in division, Cleveland)

2001: 14/30 (2nd in division, Cleveland)

 

So we have won TWO DIVISIONS in 10 years with the highest payroll in the division 50% of the time and the second highest in the division the other 50% of the time. We are not smarter than KW, we just realize that there are plenty of baseball people smarter than KW yet somehow we are stuck with him for eternity it feels. The AL Central for most of the 2000s has been one of the worst divisions in baseball coupling horrid teams (Royals every year, Tigers early 2000s, Indians late 2000s) with incredibly miniscule payrolls (pretty much everyone besides us and the Tigers who only recently boosted up their payroll). Given these immense advantages, we still have been to the playoffs only twice under his reign. Any GM would get flack for his paltry success rate, but add in the lack of strong competition for most his tenure, it makes those two division titles look trivial.

 

And one last point, for any GM you would rather have teams that made the playoffs year in and year out than a flash-in-the-pan World Series title year. Yes, the glory may be awesome that one year, but making the playoffs year in and year out is a sign of a great organization.

 

Other than getting a couple of your years mixed up (2004 and 2008), this thread ends here. And I clearly think I'm a better GM than Kenny Williams. When I criticize him, that obviously means I could do a better job. No doubt.

[Chicago White Sox]

I am amazed at how much better at being a GM soxtalk posters are compared to the guys who are paid big bucks to do this job. Over the years, so many people here knew right away certain trades were bad.

So tell me what KW knows about Juan Pierre that we don't. Since he's the GM and can never be wrong, there must be something Pierre is doing that statistics don't justify. I guess I shouldn't question him allowing his manager to lead off the player with the lowest WAR in the majors. Like you said, he does make the big bucks.

[Texsox]

So tell me what KW knows about Juan Pierre that we don't. Since he's the GM and can never be wrong, there must be something Pierre is doing that statistics don't justify. I guess I shouldn't question him allowing his manager to lead off the player with the lowest WAR in the majors. Like you said, he does make the big bucks.

I don't think he knows anything we don't, how could he? He watches the same games we do.

[Balta1701]

I don't think he knows anything we don't, how could he? He watches the same games we do.

He has to know something, because if you gave any of us the power to act on Pierre, we'd at least be treating him like how Ozzie is treating Morel right now; playing him sparingly, yet KW has chosen not to force that issue.

[iamshack]

He has to know something, because if you gave any of us the power to act on Pierre, we'd at least be treating him like how Ozzie is treating Morel right now; playing him sparingly, yet KW has chosen not to force that issue.

What he knows that we don't is what Ozzie thinks of Pierre.

[bigruss]

What he knows that we don't is what Ozzie thinks of Pierre.

I think we all know that, but we aren't in a position of power to really influence it.

[Balta1701]

What he knows that we don't is what Ozzie thinks of Pierre.

I think I'd guess that Ozzie thinks he's the most important, irreplaceable player in his lineup.

[bigruss]

I think I'd guess that Ozzie thinks he's the most important, irreplaceable player in his lineup.

If it wasn't for Pierre we'd be in 4th place and be 16-24!!1!!

[iamshack]

I think I'd guess that Ozzie thinks he's the most important, irreplaceable player in his lineup.

Exactly.

[Paint it Black]

Exactly. His recent performance has been garbage on trades and transactions. I give him credit for the Quentin pickup and getting Danks. But the amount of damage done from the Swisher DEALS cannot be understated in my opinion.

You keep talking about all this damage done with the Swisher trade and it baffles me. How does this team miss Gio when this team is currently using a 6 man rotation? Tell me why you think Ryan Sweeney isn't anything more than a below average outfielder? Tell me when Chris Carter puts up the numbers of Konerko or Dunn.

 

And Swisher didn't leave here and put up MVP numbers in New York.

[Jordan4life_2007]

You keep talking about all this damage done with the Swisher trade and it baffles me. How does this team miss Gio when this team is currently using a 6 man rotation? Tell me why you think Ryan Sweeney isn't anything more than a below average outfielder? Tell me when Chris Carter puts up the numbers of Konerko or Dunn.

 

And Swisher didn't leave here and put up MVP numbers in New York.

 

lol. Are you serious? Gio would be the ace of this staff right now. And he's going to be cheap for quite a while.

[coco1997]

You keep talking about all this damage done with the Swisher trade and it baffles me. How does this team miss Gio when this team is currently using a 6 man rotation?

 

Kenny wouldn't have been so desperate to trade for the albatross that is Jake Peavy if the Sox had still had Gonzalez at the time.

[Balta1701]

Kenny wouldn't have been so desperate to trade for the albatross that is Jake Peavy if the Sox had still had Gonzalez at the time.

Really?

 

The 5.75 ERA in 98 innings that Gio put up in 2009 would have been the thing that kept KW from trading for Jake Peavy? You wanna rethink that?

 

Gio probably would have been traded for Peavy if we'd had him.

[Paint it Black]

lol. Are you serious? Gio would be the ace of this staff right now. And he's going to be cheap for quite a while.

Inflated Oakland numbers are Inflated

 

Kenny wouldn't have been so desperate to trade for the albatross that is Jake Peavy if the Sox had still had Gonzalez at the time.

But wait, I thought Clayton Richard and Aaron Poreda were so great. So why would you need Gio if you have those to pitching studs?

 

/I think Richard and Poreda are overrated.

[Texsox]

He has to know something, because if you gave any of us the power to act on Pierre, we'd at least be treating him like how Ozzie is treating Morel right now; playing him sparingly, yet KW has chosen not to force that issue.

 

I know it is unscientific, but at more than half of the people that responded have done the same or better than Williams at trades. What does that tell you? I'll bet that way more than half would agree they can manage better than Ozzie. No wonder the team is doing so poorly. Hell, they wouldn't even be good posters here.

[bigruss]

I know it is unscientific, but at more than half of the people that responded have done the same or better than Williams at trades. What does that tell you? I'll bet that way more than half would agree they can manage better than Ozzie. No wonder the team is doing so poorly. Hell, they wouldn't even be good posters here.

I hate these types of statements, jabs, or whatever you want to call this crap.