Paint it Black Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 QUOTE (Tex @ May 15, 2011 -> 03:03 PM) I know it is unscientific, but at more than half of the people that responded have done the same or better than Williams at trades. What does that tell you? I'll bet that way more than half would agree they can manage better than Ozzie. No wonder the team is doing so poorly. Hell, they wouldn't even be good posters here. It doesn't tell me anything. I remember people b****ing about the Danks/McCarthy trade and wanting to crucify KW. I'm sure the people from that thread are still holding to their belief that it was an awful trade. Oh wait. It's easy to play arm chair GM and have revisionist history at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 QUOTE (Paint it Black @ May 15, 2011 -> 03:09 PM) It doesn't tell me anything. I remember people b****ing about the Danks/McCarthy trade and wanting to crucify KW. I'm sure the people from that thread are still holding to their belief that it was an awful trade. Oh wait. It's easy to play arm chair GM and have revisionist history at the same time. Apparently it's also pretty easy to blindly follow Sox mgmt, and never question anything they do as they continue to fail to produce a consistent winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggsmaggs Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 QUOTE (Paint it Black @ May 15, 2011 -> 03:09 PM) It doesn't tell me anything. I remember people b****ing about the Danks/McCarthy trade and wanting to crucify KW. I'm sure the people from that thread are still holding to their belief that it was an awful trade. Oh wait. It's easy to play arm chair GM and have revisionist history at the same time. Juan Pierre has a .316 OBP and is our leadoff hitter. He is also 6/14 on stolen bases. I think most smart GMs/managers would realize that dude is not a leadoff hitter anymore. Baseball is perhaps the one game where statistics can tell you so much more about the game than watching. Runs scored is predicated on on-base percentage not batting average. And steals are pretty much a horrible idea unless the runner is successful about 80% of the time. These are proven statistic statements yet our management did not get the memo. It is stuff like this that irks me so much about KW and Ozzie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ May 15, 2011 -> 04:16 PM) Juan Pierre has a .316 OBP and is our leadoff hitter. He is also 6/14 on stolen bases. I think most smart GMs/managers would realize that dude is not a leadoff hitter anymore. 6/15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggsmaggs Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 15, 2011 -> 03:17 PM) 6/15 Somebody seriously needs to go Tonya Harding on him. Edited May 15, 2011 by maggsmaggs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ May 15, 2011 -> 04:19 PM) Somebody seriously needs to go Tanya Harding on him. I'm pretty sure that already happened. That's the only plausible explanation for stealing at a 40% clip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted May 15, 2011 Author Share Posted May 15, 2011 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ May 15, 2011 -> 03:05 PM) I hate these types of statements, jabs, or whatever you want to call this crap. It's called stating the obvious, year in and year out posters here have outperformed Williams. There was some great stats earlier in the thread, with all that salary, there should be a string of playoff appearances, yet there isn't. His roster moves have been so obviously bad, more posters than not, could have done better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggsmaggs Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Tex @ May 15, 2011 -> 03:20 PM) It's called stating the obvious, year in and year out posters here have outperformed Williams. There was some great stats earlier in the thread, with all that salary, there should be a string of playoff appearances, yet there isn't. His roster moves have been so obviously bad, more posters than not, could have done better. Again I am not saying I could do better, but I am saying there are lots of other highly qualified baseball minds that could with the inherent advantages the White Sox have over others in our division. Is that concept really so hard to see? It's like telling me that I cannot criticize Keith Bogans for his play as the Bulls starting 2-guard because I, myself, could not go out there and outperform him. Yet anyone can ostensibly see that he is not a good 2-guard. Edited May 15, 2011 by maggsmaggs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 QUOTE (Tex @ May 15, 2011 -> 03:20 PM) It's called stating the obvious, year in and year out posters here have outperformed Williams. There was some great stats earlier in the thread, with all that salary, there should be a string of playoff appearances, yet there isn't. His roster moves have been so obviously bad, more posters than not, could have done better. I have no idea whether you are being serious or mocking posters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted May 15, 2011 Author Share Posted May 15, 2011 QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ May 15, 2011 -> 03:22 PM) Again I am not saying I could do better, but I am saying there are lots of other highly qualified baseball minds that could with the inherent advantages the White Sox have over others in our division. Is that concept really so hard to see? It's like telling me that I cannot criticize Keith Bogans for his play as the Bulls starting 2-guard because I, myself, could not go out there and outperform him. Yet anyone can ostensibly see that he is not a good 2-guard. With the Sox payroll advantage in the division, it shouldn't even take a highly qualified baseball mind. I'm with you, I can't believe anyone here can't see that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ May 15, 2011 -> 10:09 PM) I have no idea whether you are being serious or mocking posters. Mocking...you should know that by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted May 15, 2011 Author Share Posted May 15, 2011 If I say that someone should be responsible for the team's underperformance for most of the past ten years it is mocking? I believe this thread conforms what I've been thinking, Williams, not Ozzie or Walker should be the one to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 QUOTE (Tex @ May 15, 2011 -> 04:53 PM) If I say that someone should be responsible for the team's underperformance for most of the past ten years it is mocking? I believe this thread conforms what I've been thinking, Williams, not Ozzie or Walker should be the one to go. Tex, you tend to have many mocking posts of people on this site, so when you actually make a claim like this people are going to assume you are once again mocking them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted May 15, 2011 Author Share Posted May 15, 2011 Nothing I can do about that. If I posted Williams was doing a good job people would think I was mocking, if I post he's doing a terrible job, people will think I am mocking. I believe the first blame goes to the players, but Williams deserves to be taking a lot more heat than it seems he is. I had not added it up until now, but I know we've had people here that have called trades mistakes right away, and applauded some as well. I was wondering how many have consistently beat him at this, and this proved it to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ May 15, 2011 -> 03:05 PM) I hate these types of statements, jabs, or whatever you want to call this crap. It's what Tex does. Apparently it's alright for him to goad large numbers of posters and it's not an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 QUOTE (Paint it Black @ May 15, 2011 -> 03:09 PM) It doesn't tell me anything. I remember people b****ing about the Danks/McCarthy trade and wanting to crucify KW. I'm sure the people from that thread are still holding to their belief that it was an awful trade. Oh wait. It's easy to play arm chair GM and have revisionist history at the same time. I don't recall there being too much complaining about the Danks/McCarthy deal. Perhaps you're the one revising history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ May 15, 2011 -> 06:22 PM) I don't recall there being too much complaining about the Danks/McCarthy deal. Perhaps you're the one revising history. I complained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 I'll also add that with the 2007 that the Sox had, and the fact that D1 got shut down early and Masset was part of the pen disaster, there were a lot of people complaining about the guys we got back. At least that we should have gotten something better back than just those scrubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted May 15, 2011 Author Share Posted May 15, 2011 And I'm not suggesting he sucks or is the worse GM in baseball. I think he's about average. Plus, we don't know what trades he's been offered and passed on. Perhaps that could add to or subtract from his job performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 I just want the drafting and scouting improved. I guess this is on Kenny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ May 15, 2011 -> 05:22 PM) I don't recall there being too much complaining about the Danks/McCarthy deal. Perhaps you're the one revising history. A lot of people complained. As they did with the Garcia deal. Point is, people tend to forget the great deals and remember the ones that didn't quite work out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paint it Black Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ May 15, 2011 -> 03:16 PM) Juan Pierre has a .316 OBP and is our leadoff hitter. He is also 6/14 on stolen bases. I think most smart GMs/managers would realize that dude is not a leadoff hitter anymore. Baseball is perhaps the one game where statistics can tell you so much more about the game than watching. Runs scored is predicated on on-base percentage not batting average. And steals are pretty much a horrible idea unless the runner is successful about 80% of the time. These are proven statistic statements yet our management did not get the memo. It is stuff like this that irks me so much about KW and Ozzie. I hated this deal when it was made, and I believe I took s*** for it here. Speedy, slappy guys are the worst kind of players. Further, playing the bunting/stolen bases NL smallball bullcrap is awful too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paint it Black Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ May 15, 2011 -> 05:22 PM) I don't recall there being too much complaining about the Danks/McCarthy deal. Perhaps you're the one revising history. I'm way to lazy to look up threads, but I remember my whole argument being the organization knows that player best (McCarthy) and they're selling him high. People were drinking the McCarthy kool-aid like it was free beer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 15, 2011 -> 05:23 PM) I complained. I threw a holy fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted May 15, 2011 Author Share Posted May 15, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 15, 2011 -> 06:20 PM) I threw a holy fit. IIRC you also said that a change in scenery would really help BMac and it was probably best for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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