Teahen on DL, McPherson recalled from AAA

[Milkman delivers]

No, I read the whole thread, thank you very little. You are mad that Viciedo has not been brought up yet to replace Pierre. You've made that abundantly clear and I think most people on this board would like to see that move made as well, sooner rather than later. However, where this thread has been somewhat confusing is the manifestation of outrage over Viciedo not replacing Teahen for the ten days that Teahen will be out. That move makes no sense at all, because unless Pierre is moved, Viciedo is not going to play, so it would be a waste of time for him to be up with the Sox sitting on the bench, when he could be playing every day for Charlotte. That seems pretty crystal clear to me.

 

As for your prediction about Pierre's return to the lead-off spot, my gut says no, he won't, unless he has legitimately earned it. I think if he continues to scuffle and Tank continues to crush, the move we are all clamoring for will be made in the next couple of weeks. Just a gut feeling on that one, is all.

 

I've responded to every single point you made in this. Whatever, I really have checked out on caring about what this team does and caring about getting everyone to see my points.

 

Everyone can enjoy making excuses the rest of the season, as there will be plenty of things to make excuses for.

[Milkman delivers]

There is no need to bring up Dallas in the first place. That's the whole point. Make a move that actually helps your team. Subbing Dallas for Teahen does nothing since he'll be riding bench anyway. Bring up Dayan with the extra roster spot and have him play for Pierre. Why is this so hard for people to understand?

 

God damn it, thank you! Like I said, though, I've just checked out on convincing anybody of anything. There's always going to be an excuse.

[BigSqwert]

God damn it, thank you! Like I said, though, I've just checked out on convincing anybody of anything. There's always going to be an excuse.

At some point Kenny just needs to tell Ozzie "I'm bringing up Dayan, you need to play him and that's that". I mean look at the crowds. There is no interest in this team.

[Real]

Something tells me Viciedo will be traded soon to the Orioles for Brian Roberts!

 

kinda green

[hogan873]

Wow. I was shocked by the vehemence of many of the posts in this thread. As I read through the 7 pages of insults, howling, and screaming I changed my mind about 4 times. At first I didn't see the big deal, and I still agree that bringing up Viciedo to sit on the bench (which is what McPherson will be doing) would be a waste of time. But I completely agree that Viciedo needs to be brought up to replace the left fielder who cannot play anymore.

 

The issue here is that Ozzie would not use Viciedo properly if he were brought up right now, and it would be a waste. As long as Pierre is in a White Sox uniform he will be starting almost every game. In order to bring up Viciedo and for him to be used properly, Pierre has to be gone.

[southsideirish71]

Its real simple. The only way that Juan is out of the lineup is the following.

 

1.) Pierre retires, not happening.

2.) Pierre is injured. Not happening.

3.) Kenny gets fed up and takes away Guillens toys. Not happening.

 

 

This is the same manager who was going to start Jerry Owens over Quentin. He believes that the leadoff hitters are fast grindy guys who distrupt pitchers on the basepaths. He learned this from his time with the Marlins. Pods was to elmulate Juan Pierre as that disruptive force on the basepaths. Do you think for a minute that Guillen is going to change his mind on his philosophy. Its not going to happen. He will demote Juan from leadoff for a short period of time in hopes of getting him fixed. The minute he strings a game or two together he is back at the top of the lineup.

 

So the only way Viciedo makes it up before the Allstar break is if Quentin or another OF gets injured. We replace people on the DL in the most part based on what position they played. If a SS gets hurt, they are bringing up a SS.

 

This entire experience is maddening of watching Pierre auto-out and kick the ball. But its going to happen a lot this year.

Edited May 17, 2011 by southsideirish71

[Milkman delivers]

The issue here is that Ozzie would not use Viciedo properly if he were brought up right now, and it would be a waste. As long as Pierre is in a White Sox uniform he will be starting almost every game. In order to bring up Viciedo and for him to be used properly, Pierre has to be gone.

 

Yup.

[3E8]

Pierre stays no matter what. If Ozzie ever makes Viciedo the starting LF, Brent hits Lilliwaivers.

[Milkman delivers]

Pierre stays no matter what. If Ozzie ever makes Viciedo the starting LF, Brent hits Lilliwaivers.

 

Also yup.

[Chicago White Sox]

At some point Kenny just needs to tell Ozzie "I'm bringing up Dayan, you need to play him and that's that".

Exactly. But why hasn't KW done this already? Is he afraid of upsetting Ozzie or does he actually believe Pierre will turn around too?

[Balta1701]

Exactly. But why hasn't KW done this already? Is he afraid of upsetting Ozzie or does he actually believe Pierre will turn around too?

He did that last year. But Viciedo sat on the bench.

[Knackattack]

What a stupid f***ing year.

[ptatc]

Its real simple. The only way that Juan is out of the lineup is the following.

 

1.) Pierre retires, not happening.

2.) Pierre is injured. Not happening.

3.) Kenny gets fed up and takes away Guillens toys. Not happening.

 

 

This is the same manager who was going to start Jerry Owens over Quentin. He believes that the leadoff hitters are fast grindy guys who distrupt pitchers on the basepaths. He learned this from his time with the Marlins. Pods was to elmulate Juan Pierre as that disruptive force on the basepaths. Do you think for a minute that Guillen is going to change his mind on his philosophy. Its not going to happen. He will demote Juan from leadoff for a short period of time in hopes of getting him fixed. The minute he strings a game or two together he is back at the top of the lineup.

 

So the only way Viciedo makes it up before the Allstar break is if Quentin or another OF gets injured. We replace people on the DL in the most part based on what position they played. If a SS gets hurt, they are bringing up a SS.

 

This entire experience is maddening of watching Pierre auto-out and kick the ball. But its going to happen a lot this year.

 

Everyone is acting like Ozzie is the only manager that wants the speedy, pitcher-disrupting guy at the top of the lineup. Almost every manager tries to do this.

I hate to tell everyone this but the guy who replaces Ozzie will try to do the same thing.

[Milkman delivers]

Exactly. But why hasn't KW done this already? Is he afraid of upsetting Ozzie or does he actually believe Pierre will turn around too?

 

I don't think he has the power to do so. Despite the fact that Kenny should have power over Ozzie, I don't believe he does. In this sense, Reinsdorf's loyalty to these guys and his seeming refusal to fire either sort of handcuffs the team.

 

Ozzie is the type of guy that needs to be put in line from time to time. What we have now is Ozzie knowing that he's immune and that Kenny has no power over him to fire him, and if Kenny makes a move that Ozzie doesn't like, he will just not play the person or put him in position to fail constantly. Ozzie has a gigantic ego on him (as does KW), but now he doesn't even have to fear any type of reprisal (accountability) from his GM. A guy like Ozzie is going to run wild with the knowledge that he can't be fired. It's a bad recipe from the get-go.

 

Kenny needs to have the power to s***can Ozzie. And if he had that power, I truly believe that Ozzie would be long gone already.

[Milkman delivers]

Everyone is acting like Ozzie is the only manager that wants the speedy, pitcher-disrupting guy at the top of the lineup. Almost every manager tries to do this.

I hate to tell everyone this but the guy who replaces Ozzie will try to do the same thing.

 

Perhaps that guy will know the difference between a good speedy player and a bad speedy player. I would hope that most managers, upon realizing that their leadoff hitter is the worst professional baseball player in the game, would go to the next best option.

[ptatc]

There is no need to bring up Dallas in the first place. That's the whole point. Make a move that actually helps your team. Subbing Dallas for Teahen does nothing since he'll be riding bench anyway. Bring up Dayan with the extra roster spot and have him play for Pierre. Why is this so hard for people to understand?

 

Because Ozzie will not have a leadoff hitter. This is the way most mangers want their team constructed and there would be no one capable of filling this role if Pierre is not in the lineup.

I'm not sure why you don't understand this from past tendencies with Ozzie's lineups.

 

[ptatc]

Perhaps that guy will know the difference between a good speedy player and a bad speedy player. I would hope that most managers, upon realizing that their leadoff hitter is the worst professional baseball player in the game, would go to the next best option.

 

But the Sox do not have that good speedy guy anywhere near ready for full time play. So, the only option is to stick with Pierre.

[whitesoxfan99]

Because Ozzie will not have a leadoff hitter. This is the way most mangers want their team constructed and there would be no one capable of filling this role if Pierre is not in the lineup.

I'm not sure why you don't understand this from past tendencies with Ozzie's lineups.

 

Whoever hits leadoff would be as much of a leadoff hitter as Juan Pierre has been. It would be damn near impossible to suck as much at getting on base and stealing bases as Pierre has.

[Milkman delivers]

Because Ozzie will not have a leadoff hitter. This is the way most mangers want their team constructed and there would be no one capable of filling this role if Pierre is not in the lineup.

I'm not sure why you don't understand this from past tendencies with Ozzie's lineups.

 

Look, Juan Pierre is the worst player in baseball. Anybody would be better than him. If it absolutely must be a fast guy, then it can be Lillibridge or Vizquel or Rios.

 

"I'm not sure why you don't understand this from past tendencies with Ozzie's lineups."

 

This argument is so flawed. You're basically saying that, because Ozzie is bad at managing and sticks to a bad theory of who has to lead off, we have to be content with his decision to leave Pierre in the leadoff spot. And even if that were the case, I just mentioned three other guys who are capable of taking his spot.

[BigSqwert]

Whoever hits leadoff would be as much of a leadoff hitter as Juan Pierre has been. It would be damn near impossible to suck as much at getting on base and stealing bases as Pierre has.

Thank you my friend.

[RockRaines]

How about since the offense blows we bring up our best young bat in the minors? Or we could "stay the course" and continue to be "All in."

[ptatc]

Look, Juan Pierre is the worst player in baseball. Anybody would be better than him. If it absolutely must be a fast guy, then it can be Lillibridge or Vizquel or Rios.

 

"I'm not sure why you don't understand this from past tendencies with Ozzie's lineups."

This argument is so flawed. You're basically saying that, because Ozzie is bad at managing and sticks to a bad theory of who has to lead off, we have to be content with his decision to leave Pierre in the leadoff spot. And even if that were the case, I just mentioned three other guys who are capable of taking his spot.

I'm not saying it's right. All I'm saying is that that is what is going to happen. Vizquel is too old to handle the duty full time. Lillibridge is has proven that he can't handle full time duty and Rios is more of a run producer.

 

Ozzie knows Pierre is off to a bad start but he also thinks that based on history he will get better. What's the quote that Stone uses "look at the back of the baseball card."

 

I know you dislike Ozzie but this is what he and most other mangers will do. You can let it frustrate you all you want but it's not changing.

[Milkman delivers]

How about since the offense blows we bring up our best young bat in the minors? Or we could "stay the course" and continue to be "All in."

 

But the moves aren't related. You're wrong.

[Milkman delivers]

I'm not saying it's right. All I'm saying is that that is what is going to happen. Vizquel is too old to handle the duty full time. Lillibridge is has proven that he can't handle full time duty and Rios is more of a run producer.

 

Ozzie knows Pierre is off to a bad start but he also thinks that based on history he will get better. What's the quote that Stone uses "look at the back of the baseball card."

 

I know you dislike Ozzie but this is what he and most other mangers will do. You can let it frustrate you all you want but it's not changing.

 

If neither Lillibridge nor Vizquel can handle the full time duty, perhaps they can share it . Rios hasn't been much of a run producer, that's for sure. But he's fast and is a better hitter than Pierre.

 

I can look at the back of Roberto Alomar's baseball card. I think he'd be a great fit as our leadoff hitter. Oh wait, his skill set is so diminished that he cannot suffice anymore? That seems to be the same problem with Pierre. Oh well, Pierre is already on the team so he should be fine.

 

It boils down to this. The best argument anyone can make in favor of this move is "it is what it is."

[caulfield12]

It's not the move itself.

 

The hilariousness of "All In" just got more pronounced.

 

If you want to look at an organization that's truly "All In," it's the Royals, who are taking a shot this year even though it might end up costing them ten of millions with Hosmer.

 

Viciedo is a sunk cost. We're already committed to paying him $10 million plus. And it's not like we didn't see him have the ability to hit last year. He was pretty much signed TO HIT, with that as his #1 skill.

 

Yet somehow, when we're going up against teams like TEX, CLE, the Dodgers, then hit the road against Texas, Toronto and Boston, we're supposed to be inspired that Dallas McPherson will actually contribute something positive???

 

It's predictable, but it sucks and I have a feeling we'll be wondering months or years from now if bringing up Viciedo earlier could have sparked the White Sox offense instead of going down in flames with the veteran Pierre.