Ozzie vs Soxtalk

[Jordan4life_2007]

I will never forgive Ozzie for leaving in Linebrink against the Cubs at Wrigley field. I forget which year it was but we all knew it was the wrong decision and it cost us the game. We had a 5-1 lead going into the 8th and we could've thrown Thornton and Jenks at them and instead we gave them Liney, the Cubs scored 4 in the 8th and one in the 10th to win it as I recall.

 

2009

[Jordan4life_2007]

So how does a major franchise wind up with a manager and a GM who 2/3 or more of the amateurs can outperform them at their jobs?

 

Why do you create these threads just to mock people?

[LittleHurt05]

I will never forgive Ozzie for leaving in Linebrink against the Cubs at Wrigley field. I forget which year it was but we all knew it was the wrong decision and it cost us the game. We had a 5-1 lead going into the 8th and we could've thrown Thornton and Jenks at them and instead we gave them Liney, the Cubs scored 4 in the 8th and one in the 10th to win it as I recall.

 

A Chris Getz error started the inning and forced Linebrink to get 4 outs, all runs unearned.

[BigSqwert]

A Chris Getz error started the inning and forced Linebrink to get 4 outs, all runs unearned.

He probably would have blown it without the error. That guy flat out sucked.

Edited May 20, 2011 by BigSqwert

[LittleHurt05]

He probably would have blown it without the error. That guy flat out sucked.

 

And he still sucks in ATL now. I just remembered that the hatred for him was so strong that postgame nobody (other than Hawk) gave a s*** about the Getz error and the fact that Linebrink could have been out of the inning.

[Texsox]

Why do you create these threads just to mock people?

 

Would you care to point out where I mocked anyone? Look at the poll results, that is called objective evidence. The majority of posters here have outperformed both of these guys at their jobs. And it has been easily proven, both of those guys have done some really stupid things. So how did a major franchise wind up with these two?

 

And here is a hint . . .

 

The answer is JR. And the point is, maybe the team's problems should be more on his shoulders.

[witesoxfan]

So how does a major franchise wind up with a manager and a GM who 2/3 or more of the amateurs can outperform them at their jobs?

 

Managers work 10 hours a day. The work to which you and everyone else here is referring to is 3 of those 10 hours. So these guys can be better than him 30% of the time.

 

Ask yourself this...when the s*** gets thick, do you think Paul Konerko is going to care what you or anybody else on here says? Or what do you say to the media when you've lost 6 straight? What do you do when, no matter what change you make to the lineup, you still lose and players fail to execute?

 

I'm not envious of Ozzie.

Edited May 21, 2011 by witesoxfan

[Balta1701]

The gift wrapped run Ozzie gave LA today didn't raise my opinion of him.

[Jerksticks]

I hate your thread; not you, just your thread. I can't believe 19 people smugly picked that first choice. Embarrassing. I happen to think Ozzie is a genius at managing the players he's given. We have some awkward situations on the team this year. Give it some more time.

[greg775]

I hate your thread; not you, just your thread. I can't believe 19 people smugly picked that first choice. Embarrassing. I happen to think Ozzie is a genius at managing the players he's given. We have some awkward situations on the team this year. Give it some more time.

 

I think there's some jealousy of Ozzie.

He's outspoken, rich and will be in baseball all his life.

Many people think they are as smart as Ozzie baseball wise which is a joke.

The man has been in the game a zillion years and knows baseball.

Many of us would get fired immediately if we said some of the things Ozzie says and I think jealousy has set in with some Sox fans.

 

Every team has stiffs like Juan Pierre that are still playing despite the fact fans hate him (them).

 

It's easy to get mad when he picks the wrong reliever. Now Crain is the guy everybody wants in the setup role every night when the game is close. You have to use your entire roster and Ozzie is as qualified as anybody to make these decisions. My feeling is the real Ozzie haters don't blame the players as much as they should. Instead of saying Dunn is a worthless piece of s***, they blame Ozzie for batting him third. Guess what? He's on the roster and a slugger with a history of doing well. You bat him third or fourth. He has to produce. But he sucks, so blame Ozzie for batting him third. In my world, that's dumb.

 

Anybody who picked that first choice is delusional. Or sorry I guess you people are smart enough to be baseball managers, you just didn't pursue that career path.

Edited May 21, 2011 by greg775

[JohnCangelosi]

I think there's some jealousy of Ozzie.

He's outspoken, rich and will be in baseball all his life.

Many people think they are as smart as Ozzie baseball wise which is a joke.

The man has been in the game a zillion years and knows baseball.

Many of us would get fired immediately if we said some of the things Ozzie says and I think jealousy has set in with some Sox fans.

 

Every team has stiffs like Juan Pierre that are still playing despite the fact fans hate him.

 

It's easy to get mad when he picks the wrong reliever. Now Crain is the guy everybody wants in the setup role every night when the game is close. You have to use your entire roster and Ozzie is as qualified as anybody to make these decisions. My feeling is the real Ozzie haters don't blame the players as much as they should. Instead of saying Dunn is a worthless piece of s***, they blame Ozzie for batting him third. Guess what? He's on the roster and a slugger with a history of doing well. You bat him third or fourth. He has to produce. But he sucks, so blame Ozzie for batting him third. In my world, that's dumb.

 

Anybody who picked that first choice is delusional. Or sorry I guess you people are smart enough to be baseball managers, you just didn't pursue that career path.

 

Please name ONE player who is worse than Juan Pierre who not only starts but gets the most PA's for his team in all of baseball. Ozzie may be a great personality and the boss, which you need in today's game, but his tactical decisions suck.

[greg775]

Please name ONE player who is worse than Juan Pierre who not only starts but gets the most PA's for his team in all of baseball. Ozzie may be a great personality and the boss, which you need in today's game, but his tactical decisions suck.

 

Adam Dunn, but he doesn't get as many plate appearances.

I don't agree his tactical decisions suck but I do realize I'm in the minority on this.

 

I was in favor of canning Ozzie a few weeks ago BTW. Just because of our team's horrific start again. At some point things have to settle down with our team and be more consistent.

Edited May 21, 2011 by greg775

[JohnCangelosi]

Adam Dunn, but he doesn't get as many plate appearances.

I don't agree his tactical decisions suck but I do realize I'm in the minority on this.

 

I was in favor of canning Ozzie a few weeks ago BTW. Just because of our team's horrific start again. At some point things have to settle down with our team and be more consistent.

LOL Touche regarding Dunn, it's a close call between him, Beckham and Rios

[Jerksticks]

I think there's some jealousy of Ozzie.

He's outspoken, rich and will be in baseball all his life.

Many people think they are as smart as Ozzie baseball wise which is a joke.

The man has been in the game a zillion years and knows baseball.

Many of us would get fired immediately if we said some of the things Ozzie says and I think jealousy has set in with some Sox fans.

 

Every team has stiffs like Juan Pierre that are still playing despite the fact fans hate him (them).

 

It's easy to get mad when he picks the wrong reliever. Now Crain is the guy everybody wants in the setup role every night when the game is close. You have to use your entire roster and Ozzie is as qualified as anybody to make these decisions. My feeling is the real Ozzie haters don't blame the players as much as they should. Instead of saying Dunn is a worthless piece of s***, they blame Ozzie for batting him third. Guess what? He's on the roster and a slugger with a history of doing well. You bat him third or fourth. He has to produce. But he sucks, so blame Ozzie for batting him third. In my world, that's dumb.

 

Anybody who picked that first choice is delusional. Or sorry I guess you people are smart enough to be baseball managers, you just didn't pursue that career path.

 

Excellent post. What's also interesting is that none of these arm chair managers are consistently watching other managers go through 162 games. They have nothing to compare Ozzie to anyway which makes it even more absurd.

 

Let's take the Thornton example since it's cost us the most games. Thornton wanted to close, waited in the wings for years and earned it, and completely crapped himself out there. What's Ozzie supposed to do? He put his best guy in the toughest situation. You can argue he should have stopped putting Thornton out there after 2 BS but what kind of confidence does that instill in your other players, giving up on them quickly if they fail? Hogwash.

 

I'm sure Ozzie is running out of rope for JP and a decision will be made soon. But he's giving a proven player (even though what's proven irks many of us) a chance to right the ship. I love that. Same with Beckham. He's giving them the chance to overcome because we become a better team if they do. That's all you can ask of Oz. Exhaust all options with the player before giving up on them. It's not his fault the players are sucking.

Edited May 21, 2011 by Jerksticks

[Chicago White Sox]

Instead of saying Dunn is a worthless piece of s***, they blame Ozzie for batting him third. Guess what? He's on the roster and a slugger with a history of doing well. You bat him third or fourth. He has to produce. But he sucks, so blame Ozzie for batting him third. In my world that's dumb.

You are a walking contradiction. I have seen at least three occasions where you've said Dunn is garbage and should be batting 8th. Now you are saying that Guillen has to bat him third? Which one is it? Are you dumb or is Ozzie an idiot? You can't have it both ways.

[greg775]

You are a walking contradiction. I have seen at least three occasions where you've said Dunn is garbage and should be batting 8th. Now you are saying that Guillen has to bat him third? Which one is it? Are you dumb or is Ozzie an idiot? You can't have it both ways.

 

I said I'd bat him eighth. I know why Ozzie bats him third.

[Hawkfan]

Yes, please do record all of your hind sight, arm chair game management calls.

[IlliniKrush]

So fans should never question any manager, since they aren't a manager and don't know as much as they do. Yet, managers get fired all the time for essentially not being good at their job. Odd.

 

There have been numerous times people on here (or at games) have been right when Ozzie has been wrong, end of story. Ozzie may be a good "manager" to some, but one of his strengths is clearly not x's and o's, for lack of a better term.

 

What's great about today's game is that a lot of people know a lot about baseball, regardless of if they played the game at the MLB level. Plus, all the stats are at everyone's fingertips - every stat you can think of. The only thing people don't have is the "inside the game" facts - maybe who's tired in the pen that day (though you can usually figure that out), etc. So you can make calls just like they can.

Edited May 22, 2011 by IlliniKrush

[greg775]

So fans should never question any manager, since they aren't a manager and don't know as much as they do. Yet, managers get fired all the time for essentially not being good at their job. Odd.

 

There have been numerous times people on here (or at games) have been right when Ozzie has been wrong, end of story. Ozzie may be a good "manager" to some, but one of his strengths is clearly not x's and o's, for lack of a better term.

 

What's great about today's game is that a lot of people know a lot about baseball, regardless of if they played the game at the MLB level. Plus, all the stats are at everyone's fingertips - every stat you can think of. The only thing people don't have is the "inside the game" facts - maybe who's tired in the pen that day (though you can usually figure that out), etc. So you can make calls just like they can.

 

One thing is for sure. Even he wouldn't have been surprised had he gotten fired during that pathetic stretch where we lost almost every single night and let a team like Cleveland build that insurmountable lead on us.

[Hawkfan]

I have no problem with someone disagreeing with ozzie, but it is almost a joke to think your calls would change the fortune of the White Sox. For one, your "should have" never happened, so it's difficult to prove. And two, no one has as much transparency to players' abilities and statistical history as Ozzie. And I'm still giving him the credibility argument on past performance, although I do think time is running out on that. My last point is that people act like idiots quite a bit, and will decide after the fact that they would have done something different (we've all seen it). That being said, most Soxtalk members are very educated about the game.

[Balta1701]

I have no problem with someone disagreeing with ozzie, but it is almost a joke to think your calls would change the fortune of the White Sox. For one, your "should have" never happened, so it's difficult to prove.

Except for that run that we gift wrapped to the Dodgers tonight. Totally guaranteed.

[IlliniKrush]

I have no problem with someone disagreeing with ozzie, but it is almost a joke to think your calls would change the fortune of the White Sox. For one, your "should have" never happened, so it's difficult to prove. And two, no one has as much transparency to players' abilities and statistical history as Ozzie. And I'm still giving him the credibility argument on past performance, although I do think time is running out on that. My last point is that people act like idiots quite a bit, and will decide after the fact that they would have done something different (we've all seen it). That being said, most Soxtalk members are very educated about the game.

This is wrong though. Baseball numbers essentially don't lie, especially with all the advanced metrics out there. And everyone has access to all of it.

[Hawkfan]

This is wrong though. Baseball numbers essentially don't lie, especially with all the advanced metrics out there. And everyone has access to all of it.

 

And Ozzie probably doesn't know how to use a computer, so we could probably get it faster than he could.

[lostfan]

Ozzie doesn't really look at statistical history... or if he does he just ignores it. A left-handed batter could be batting .500 against lefties and Ozzie will PH him for an average bench player because he's right-handed.

[JohnCangelosi]

Excellent post. What's also interesting is that none of these arm chair managers are consistently watching other managers go through 162 games. They have nothing to compare Ozzie to anyway which makes it even more absurd.

 

Let's take the Thornton example since it's cost us the most games. Thornton wanted to close, waited in the wings for years and earned it, and completely crapped himself out there. What's Ozzie supposed to do? He put his best guy in the toughest situation. You can argue he should have stopped putting Thornton out there after 2 BS but what kind of confidence does that instill in your other players, giving up on them quickly if they fail? Hogwash.

 

I'm sure Ozzie is running out of rope for JP and a decision will be made soon. But he's giving a proven player (even though what's proven irks many of us) a chance to right the ship. I love that. Same with Beckham. He's giving them the chance to overcome because we become a better team if they do. That's all you can ask of Oz. Exhaust all options with the player before giving up on them. It's not his fault the players are sucking.

It was Ozzie's job to realize that Thornton is NOT a closer. A lot of us knew that LAST year when he had to fill in for Jenks. He just never looked comfortable in the role and this year it has born itself out.

 

Secondly, Ozzie will go ALL YEAR with JP no matter what. Why? Because he's a f*cking idiot. All you have to do is look 2010 and Kotsay for proof of how stupid he is. Literally. The guy probably has a 56 IQ. But of course smarts aren't everything in managing. I like the fact that Ozzie is the boss, and I like his laid back attitude. I just wish he had someone that could THINK for him because it's evident the guy has very little brains when it comes to making tactical decisions.

 

Third, Beckham is playing a non slugging position and still young, so you can have MUCH more patience with him than an aging Juan Pierre who costs us ball games day in and day out when we have a better player in AAA waiting to take his spot.

 

Look at today's game, for example. Garland is throwing BP out there and Juan can't even get a pop up out of the infield- he's a little league ball player in MLB right now. Thankfully Alexei was able to bail him out. It's a friggin crime that this guy gets the most PA's for our team and at the same time is probably the worst player in MLB. Only on a team managed by Ozzie Guillen!