Steve9347 Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 Are we really freaking out over a hot streak from Alexei Ramirez? I'd say he's not maturing as a hitter. Even after this hot streak his OPS is 2 whopping points higher than it was all of his rookie season. I know we're grasping for straws following this s***bomb of a disappointment team, but let's get real here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattZakrowski Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ May 24, 2011 -> 09:57 AM) Are we really freaking out over a hot streak from Alexei Ramirez? I'd say he's not maturing as a hitter. Even after this hot streak his OPS is 2 whopping points higher than it was all of his rookie season. I know we're grasping for straws following this s***bomb of a disappointment team, but let's get real here. But his OPS has become more OBP centric, and OBP is more important than SLG. He's also grown into the best defensive SS in the game since 2008, when he was a poor-average (depending on who you ask) 2B. His BABIP is sustainable, and his improvement in discipline may well be sustainable. This article goes into his improved approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 QUOTE (MattZakrowski @ May 24, 2011 -> 10:42 AM) But his OPS has become more OBP centric, and OBP is more important than SLG. He's also grown into the best defensive SS in the game since 2008, when he was a poor-average (depending on who you ask) 2B. His BABIP is sustainable, and his improvement in discipline may well be sustainable. This article goes into his improved approach. Hawk much? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ May 24, 2011 -> 11:50 AM) Hawk much? He's in the discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ May 24, 2011 -> 10:52 AM) He's in the discussion. In the discussion and definitively the best are two very different things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ May 24, 2011 -> 10:53 AM) In the discussion and definitively the best are two very different things. Who's a better defensive SS than Alexei off the top of your head? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 QUOTE (chw42 @ May 24, 2011 -> 10:57 AM) Who's a better defensive SS than Alexei off the top of your head? Elvis Andrus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ May 24, 2011 -> 10:57 AM) Elvis Andrus I'd say he's close, but no numbers show that Andrus is a better fielder than Alexei these past two seasons. I don't think I'd take Andrus over Ramirez by eye test alone either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 QUOTE (chw42 @ May 24, 2011 -> 10:57 AM) Who's a better defensive SS than Alexei off the top of your head? Derek Jeter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ May 24, 2011 -> 11:07 AM) Derek Jeter Pat Quinn was on the radio broadcast the other day and thought Alexei actually won a gold glove last year. I don't blame him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ May 24, 2011 -> 11:53 AM) In the discussion and definitively the best are two very different things. Agreed. He's definitely top three. I'd have him behind Andrus as well. Only thing holding Alexei back from being number one to me is the boneheaded errant throws he still seems to make too frequently. He makes some amazing plays, has ridiculous range and has a solid arm but he does already have what 8/9 errors? Too many. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 Since the beginning of the 2010 season Alexei has the 2nd highest WAR among SS in the game, the best UZR/150, 2nd highest +/-, the 6th highest wOBA and his walk rate this season is right at his respectable 2009 level, a number that I would accept for the rest of his career. There's a lot to get excited about with Alexei Ramirez, he's one of the best all around SS in the game at an incredibly important position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ May 24, 2011 -> 01:00 PM) Agreed. He's definitely top three. I'd have him behind Andrus as well. Only thing holding Alexei back from being number one to me is the boneheaded errant throws he still seems to make too frequently. He makes some amazing plays, has ridiculous range and has a solid arm but he does already have what 8/9 errors? Too many. Elvis Andrus has made 10 errors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ May 24, 2011 -> 12:00 PM) Agreed. He's definitely top three. I'd have him behind Andrus as well. Only thing holding Alexei back from being number one to me is the boneheaded errant throws he still seems to make too frequently. He makes some amazing plays, has ridiculous range and has a solid arm but he does already have what 8/9 errors? Too many. Andrus has 10 errors this season, 3 less throwing errors over the past 2 seasons and 2 less total errors. Not a big difference there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 24, 2011 -> 01:02 PM) Elvis Andrus has made 10 errors. QUOTE (Kalapse @ May 24, 2011 -> 01:07 PM) Andrus has 10 errors this season, 3 less throwing errors over the past 2 seasons and 2 less total errors. Not a big difference there. Didn't bother looking that up. Just seemed Alexei had kind of a lot already considering it's not even June. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 I have no complaints about Alexei's defense. I just found it funny that a thread about him maturing as a hitter popped up when his OPS is nearly identical to the one he put up over his entire rookie season. It's nothing to be excited about, in terms of maturation. However, he is the least of our problems, so I hate that I turned this into a complaint thread. Go Sexei. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ May 24, 2011 -> 12:27 PM) I have no complaints about Alexei's defense. I just found it funny that a thread about him maturing as a hitter popped up when his OPS is nearly identical to the one he put up over his entire rookie season. It's nothing to be excited about, in terms of maturation. However, he is the least of our problems, so I hate that I turned this into a complaint thread. Go Sexei. Matt already said something to this extent, but OBP is a lot more important than SLG. In 08, Alexei had a decent OPS because he had a slugging near .500. The problem was that he never got on base despite hitting .290. This is the problem with OPS, it treats OBP and SLG as equals, when they really shouldn't be. wOBA gives getting on base a much more fair weight. Instead of having 4 walks = a home run like OPS, a home run is equal to a bit less than 3 walks with wOBA. Plus, wOBA is based on past run values, so it is a stat that adapts, while OPS stays constant. I can go on about how superior of a stat wOBA is in comparison to OPS, but I don't think anyone else wants to read about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted May 24, 2011 Share Posted May 24, 2011 Another thing to remember about Alexei: we know he tends to blow for the first 6 or so weeks of the season. You can say that his numbers this year aren't THAT much better than his rookie stats (though there is a substantial .013 point difference in wOBA) but Alexei only had 73 PA in the team's first 49 games in '08, this season he has 200 PA through 49 team games. He's typically been significantly better in the final 110 games of the season: 2008: First 50 team games: .200/.230/.300/.530 Final 113 team games: .305/.332/.505/.837 2009: First 50 team games: .253/.299/.335/.634 Final 112 team games: .288/.349/.414/.763 2010: First 50 team games: .254/.288/.385/.673 Final 112 team games: .293/.324/.450/.773 2011: First 49 team games: .282/.347/.448/.794 This is far and away the best start to a season he's had in his career to date, he's not putting himself in some big hole to start the year. He wasn't given the opportunity to dig himself a ridiculous hole in his rookie year because he barely played. If the trend of him picking up his play in the final 4 months of the season continues into this season this should be the best season of his career, likely a .350+ wOBA season. Over the last 3 full seasons the top 5 offensive SS in the game have been at .348+ (Young, Reyes, Jeter, Tulo, Ramirez) so historically .350 puts you into elite company throw in his typical top of the league defense and you have an outstanding baseball player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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