iamshack Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 27, 2011 -> 09:36 AM) So other than his history and his unsustainable numbers, there is nothing to say he will regress. Ok. I probably should be done here. Your argument is that since he cannot possibly be THIS good, he should be put in the bullpen. Do you realize how ridiculous of a position that is? Even if he does regress a bit, he would still be outperforming our entire starting rotation...why the f*** would you put him into the pen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 I have to admit, I didn't think Humber would be this good (even if it is a hot stretch) especially considering I thought he was better before he had TJ. I don't catch many games cause of work, but his curve still looks as sick as it did at Rice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggsmaggs Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 I will just go on this info: He has now OWNED the Blue Jays and Yankees on the road who are two of the best offenses in baseball. Dude is legit. Maybe not sub-1.00 WHIP good, but certainly deserves a place in our rotation until he regresses big time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggsmaggs Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 BTW on ESPN.com, they list the probables for the upcoming series and they completely leave out Humber against the Red Sox. Does ESPN know something we don't know, or are they just not realizing we have six starters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ May 27, 2011 -> 09:39 AM) Your argument is that since he cannot possibly be THIS good, he should be put in the bullpen. Do you realize how ridiculous of a position that is? Even if he does regress a bit, he would still be outperforming our entire starting rotation...why the f*** would you put him into the pen? I agree. Putting Humber in the pen because history shows he shouldn't be this good doesn't make any sense. The guy is pitching better than any other guy in the starting rotation. He deserves to be there right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 27, 2011 -> 07:36 AM) So other than his history and his unsustainable numbers, there is nothing to say he will regress. Ok. I probably should be done here. Gavin Floyd worked out. Esteban Loiaza worked out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ May 27, 2011 -> 09:46 AM) I agree. Putting Humber in the pen because history shows he shouldn't be this good doesn't make any sense. The guy is pitching better than any other guy in the starting rotation. He deserves to be there right now. If he was throwing up a bunch of mediocre s*** and fielders were just catching line drives all the over the field against him, it would be one thing. But this guy has given up 43 hits in 60 innings! He's had a nasty curve and a well-located fastball. He's always had the stuff and the arm. Now granted, he will regress a bit, but he's pitching very well right now. And he has the stuff to continue to pitch well for us. Why is it so difficult to believe that he may be finally fulfilling his promise with us? Especially after so many other guys have seen a lightbulb come on under Cooper? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ May 27, 2011 -> 09:37 AM) He was third overall to boot. Yes, I think he will finish with better numbers than Edwin Jackson. Chris Shelton had one hot month in April as a former 33rd-round draft pick. Humber has now been going strong for two straight months as a former top-five MLB pick. He clearly has talent otherwise he wouldn't have been taken that high. And he was picked by the Mets who don't have any issues with signability, so he was worthy of being picked that high. He has six straight quality starts and has two road starts against top six offenses in the MLB during that stretch where has given up one run in 14.2 innings. You're kidding yourself if you think he is doing with smoke and mirrors. If he does regress in the next couple starts badly, then maybe you can move him to the pen. But you can't do it when he is on fire. Who knows maybe we found another Esteban Loaiza or maybe a top-three MLB pick is finally realizing his potential under one of the best pitching coaches in baseball? Jose Bautista was a 20th round pick. Putting aside the fantasy that Humber will have a better season than the Sox starters, here is my problem with putting Jackson into the pen over Humber. 3.5 BB/9 versus 2.0 BB/9n this year. Jackson goes through some crazy control issues. I'm not quite sure when you let him go all out in the pen with not worrying about a pitch count that it would get better. You can't have guys walking people coming out of the pen. If you are really convinced the Phil Humber is the next Gavin Floyd, you have to trade Jackson IMO. I like his stuff, but I am not sure the pen would work for him. Looking at his career, the year he spent mostly in the pen was the worst BB/9 of his career by far (6.2). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iwritecode Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ May 27, 2011 -> 09:00 AM) http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/wh...own-in-pen.html Kill me now. Yeah, let's put our best starter in the pen that will help this club win more games. So so so stupid. I don't care he isn't yet established, but moving him while he is going strong is just dumb. If he goes out and gets bombed the next two starts, that would be more acceptable, but for Ozzie to talk about this s*** now just shows what a moron he is. Is it possible for our idiot manager to just say nothing and say we'll cross that bridge when we get to it? And on a sidenote, how many more starts did Juan Pierre buy himself with a lucky ass game-winning single? It's funny hearing this right after hearing Don Cooper say he doesn't know anything about going back to the 5-man rotation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggsmaggs Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 27, 2011 -> 10:07 AM) Jose Bautista was a 20th round pick. Putting aside the fantasy that Humber will have a better season than the Sox starters, here is my problem with putting Jackson into the pen over Humber. 3.5 BB/9 versus 2.0 BB/9n this year. Jackson goes through some crazy control issues. I'm not quite sure when you let him go all out in the pen with not worrying about a pitch count that it would get better. You can't have guys walking people coming out of the pen. If you are really convinced the Phil Humber is the next Gavin Floyd, you have to trade Jackson IMO. I like his stuff, but I am not sure the pen would work for him. Looking at his career, the year he spent mostly in the pen was the worst BB/9 of his career by far (6.2). I agree that Jackson could bomb in the pen, and I really would be for trading him, but with Peavy's injury issues and the dearth of starting pitching in the minors, I think we have to keep him. QUOTE (Iwritecode @ May 27, 2011 -> 10:08 AM) It's funny hearing this right after hearing Don Cooper say he doesn't know anything about going back to the 5-man rotation. Well nice to see our manager and Coop are on the same page. But it also could be Coop just being Coop with he gives nebulous answers to things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 27, 2011 -> 09:35 AM) Which was the entire basis of my thinking that Humber could be decent this year. But expecting him to be Cy Young? No that would be lunacy. So would have Loiaza. The tough part is Humber is out best starter right now. Giving that alot of arguments are made on this board to forget about a players history and start looking at results now, its funny that with Humber that is exactly something that is being preached not to do. It would be asinine to take the best pitcher you have up to this point out of your rotation. Edited May 27, 2011 by RockRaines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ May 27, 2011 -> 10:12 AM) So would have Loiaza. The tough part is Humber is out best starter right now. Giving that alot of arguments are made on this board to forget about a players history and start looking at results now, its funny that with Humber that is exactly something that is being preached not to do. It would be asinine to take the best pitcher you have up to this point out of your rotation. Esteban was at least established as a major league starting pitcher when he got here. He also never did duplicate his success before or after being here. And I am the last one to fall into the immediate gratification group. I think history is important, and tend not to put as much faith into streaks as most do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 27, 2011 -> 10:07 AM) Jose Bautista was a 20th round pick. Putting aside the fantasy that Humber will have a better season than the Sox starters, here is my problem with putting Jackson into the pen over Humber. 3.5 BB/9 versus 2.0 BB/9n this year. Jackson goes through some crazy control issues. I'm not quite sure when you let him go all out in the pen with not worrying about a pitch count that it would get better. You can't have guys walking people coming out of the pen. If you are really convinced the Phil Humber is the next Gavin Floyd, you have to trade Jackson IMO. I like his stuff, but I am not sure the pen would work for him. Looking at his career, the year he spent mostly in the pen was the worst BB/9 of his career by far (6.2). Well considering that Jackson is a FA after this year, what player are you more concerned with, in terms of his future with the ballclub? Jackson or Humber? I stated earlier the only way I could see putting Humber in the pen is to audition one of the other starters for a trade. Otherwise it is foolishness to be concerned about how Jackson might do in the pen in order to take your best starter out of the rotation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ May 27, 2011 -> 10:17 AM) Well considering that Jackson is a FA after this year, what player are you more concerned with, in terms of his future with the ballclub? Jackson or Humber? I stated earlier the only way I could see putting Humber in the pen is to audition one of the other starters for a trade. Otherwise it is foolishness to be concerned about how Jackson might do in the pen in order to take your best starter out of the rotation. Phil Humber is not the Sox best starter. He has been the best so far this year, but he is not the best Sox starter. He also won't end the season as their best starter. Assuming that is foolish, as is assuming that it is OK to sacrifice games because Jackson doesn't adjust well to the pen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 27, 2011 -> 10:22 AM) Phil Humber is not the Sox best starter. He has been the best so far this year, but he is not the best Sox starter. He also won't end the season as their best starter. Assuming that is foolish, as is assuming that it is OK to sacrifice games because Jackson doesn't adjust well to the pen. It's baseball, assuming anything is foolish really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 27, 2011 -> 10:22 AM) Phil Humber is not the Sox best starter. He has been the best so far this year, but he is not the best Sox starter. He also won't end the season as their best starter. Assuming that is foolish, as is assuming that it is OK to sacrifice games because Jackson doesn't adjust well to the pen. Why the hell does he have to be the best starter? That is not the argument here. The point is that he isn't even close to being the worst starter, which is the guy that should go to the pen. By your logic, we should have never believed in Gavin Floyd. They have extremely similar histories and stuff. How can you be so quick to dismiss Humber when we have the history of Floyd sitting right here in our faces? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ May 27, 2011 -> 10:24 AM) Why the hell does he have to be the best starter? That is not the argument here. The point is that he isn't even close to being the worst starter, which is the guy that should go to the pen. By your logic, we should have never believed in Gavin Floyd. They have extremely similar histories and stuff. How can you be so quick to dismiss Humber when we have the history of Floyd sitting right here in our faces? That is the argument YOU JUST MADE. Good god, this is why I shouldn't argue with you. I am getting dizzy from the circles. Walking away now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 If anything, his insane whip shows that's he's not doing this with smoke and mirrors. The guy has just been freakin fantastic so far. Do I expect him to keep going like this? Hell no. But to put your best starter in the bullpen because he makes the least amount of money(and lets be honest that's the ONLY reason he'd be going to the pen) is the sign of a terrible decision making organization. This shouldn't be too difficult of a decision at this point, Edwin needs to be the one going to the pen. If we're going to complain about Humber's track record we can certainly do the same thing about Edwin's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 27, 2011 -> 10:25 AM) That is the argument YOU JUST MADE. Good god, this is why I shouldn't argue with you. I am getting dizzy from the circles. Walking away now. No, I MADE THE ARGUMENT THAT HE HAS BEEN THE BEST STARTER. I never made the argument that he has to continue to be the best starter in order to remain in the rotation. Your argument is based in absolutely zero logic whatsoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ May 27, 2011 -> 10:25 AM) If anything, his insane whip shows that's he's not doing this with smoke and mirrors. The guy has just been freakin fantastic so far. Do I expect him to keep going like this? Hell no. But to put your best starter in the bullpen because he makes the least amount of money(and lets be honest that's the ONLY reason he'd be going to the pen) is the sign of a terrible decision making organization. This shouldn't be too difficult of a decision at this point, Edwin needs to be the one going to the pen. If we're going to complain about Humber's track record we can certainly do the same thing about Edwin's. I thought it was the amazing track record that EJax has of beein wildly inconsistent taht we wanted him to be in the rotation!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ May 27, 2011 -> 10:28 AM) I thought it was the amazing track record that EJax has of beein wildly inconsistent taht we wanted him to be in the rotation!? Come on, dude...this is not about Jackson versus Hudson. This is about Humber. For all those that are upset about Hudson's departure, at least we have found another cheap effective arm to replace him. Now let's not screw it up by moving him to the pen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ May 27, 2011 -> 09:31 AM) Come on, dude...this is not about Jackson versus Hudson. This is about Humber. For all those that are upset about Hudson's departure, at least we have found another cheap effective arm to replace him. Now let's not screw it up by moving him to the pen. He's not talking about Jackson versus Hudson. We're talking about Jackson vs. Humber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ May 27, 2011 -> 10:25 AM) If anything, his insane whip shows that's he's not doing this with smoke and mirrors. The guy has just been freakin fantastic so far. Do I expect him to keep going like this? Hell no. But to put your best starter in the bullpen because he makes the least amount of money(and lets be honest that's the ONLY reason he'd be going to the pen) is the sign of a terrible decision making organization. The guy has zero slider last night and still dominated Toronto, in Toronto. I believe that the kid has figured something out and you have to ride the hot hand while its hot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ May 27, 2011 -> 10:26 AM) No, I MADE THE ARGUMENT THAT HE HAS BEEN THE BEST STARTER. I never made the argument that he has to continue to be the best starter in order to remain in the rotation. Your argument is based in absolutely zero logic whatsoever. And you have no idea how it is circular to say that Humber is our best starter so we can't send him to the pen, but even if he isn't our best starter, you can't send him to the pen? That passes for logic? Yeah, ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 QUOTE (Rowand44 @ May 27, 2011 -> 10:32 AM) He's not talking about Jackson versus Hudson. We're talking about Jackson vs. Humber. Its really apparent he is just looking to troll at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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