Why not? The official "Alex Rios Sucks" Thread

[Balta1701]

Wasn't that also after they turned down C. Hart for him?

Both sides denied ever talking about that. TIFWIW. I'm sure you've got a source somewhere that says that the opposite.

[caulfield12]

Yes seriously. I know you've tried to argue that KW got all he could back for Swisher (which I disagree with), but I'll never understand what the rush was to trade Javy so early in the offseason. Personally, I think KW got infatuated with Tyler Flowers during Arizona Fall League, and pulled the trigger way too fast.

 

We got ourselves in a position where we had to part ways with Cabrera (that was logical, although KW almost got stuck with him in their prideful "chicken game" and blocking Alexei Ramirez from SS in the process), Javy and Swisher.

 

Agree with Balta that getting rid of that contract was a no-brainer, but we were really sold a false bill of goods on Tyler Flowers being the catcher of the future and franchise-type player.

 

What it has resulted in is the worst percentage of opposing baserunners thrown out in recent baseball history, and AJ Pierzynski on the books for 2012 for $6 million (or you can "spin" it as $4 million, whatever).

 

So Flowers and Viciedo both might have to be moved (or have no impact) on the positions where we had the most need to LF/RF/DH/1B positions where their projected offensive numbers are much less meaningful.

 

And how many busted catching prospects can we go through in 20-30 years without getting a couple right?

 

I guess some will throw out Miguel Olivo, but the A's did 90% of the development there. He was just one of those talented but misunderstood players that KW stuck his neck out on and it actually worked out well in the end. But we still have no future catcher (I'll hold off on Phegley until he has at least 2 fully healthy seasons) or leadoff hitter in sight internally.

 

When/if Morel and Beckham actually prove to be above average major leaguers on a consistent basis, I'd be more than happy to give KW some credit for that.

Edited May 24, 2011 by caulfield12

[JohnCangelosi]

If Flowers can contribute next year and we replace JP with Lillibridge ASAP (you can always hope), that wasn't as bad of a trade as initially suspected. I do agree KW pulled the trigger on that trade too early and didn't truly see what the market was for Javy. Since Brent has been playing better the trade looks a lot better, naturally. The two Swisher trades have done more to hurt this team than anything IMO, absolutely awful

[Jordan4life_2007]

Just want to say this has been a great thread. From both points of view. I'd usually chime in. But I'm saving my rage for the Bulls game.

[iamshack]

Yes, you can. You can especially blame the person when he's made quite a few bad moves and signings in the recent past.

So what if this team were to win the division? What would your opinion be then?

[iamshack]

Who cares? Adam Dunn WILL bust out of his funk; I don't think his lack of production over this month and a half should even be considered when we talk about firing Kenny. He's built himself quite the resume of failure, no need to add Dunn to his other very fireable offenses.

So in your mind, there are no moves that show his competence, only those which are fireable offenses?

 

This is getting laughable.

[caulfield12]

So what if this team were to win the division? What would your opinion be then?

 

LOL.

 

1) That the Indians "choked" or collapsed

2) That the Indians were just another version of the 2003 Royals

3) That we were lucky the Twins are/were the worst team in the majors and that we didn't have to beat them head-to-head for the division title

4) That 85-88 wins wouldn't have been enough to win any other division in baseball

5) All-In still didn't work to draw in additional crowd support in April/May...thus depriving of us of additional revenue streams to add that "one, final piece" to put us over the top and make us a legit World Series contender

6) Even the kid from LITTLE BIG LEAGUE would win the AL Central occasionally having $128 million to spend on his roster

Edited May 24, 2011 by caulfield12

[iamshack]

The point is that he's done plenty to be fired, yes.

At this point you're just stomping your feet and throwing a tantrum. You offer no real solutions other than change for the sake of change. You have proposed no plan for which this rebuild should occur. You've identified no takers for these salaries, no potential targets to trade our valuable chips for, and no timetable for which this should all occur.

 

No amount of progress made is good enough, even when we've been unbeaten in 6 consecutive series' with over 110 games remaining. You b**** when we lose, you b**** when win.

 

Have to love baseball fans...

[StrangeSox]

Yes, you can. You can especially blame the person when he's made quite a few bad moves and signings in the recent past.

 

But the Dunn signing itself was not a bad move from just about any reasonable perspective when it was made.

 

I'm right there with you on wanting a lot of change in the organization, I just don't think you should fault people for making what is an analytically good move that just doesn't pan.

[iamshack]

LOL.

 

1) That the Indians "choked" or collapsed

2) That the Indians were just another version of the 2003 Royals

3) That we were lucky the Twins are/were the worst team in the majors and that we didn't have to beat them head-to-head for the division title

4) That 85-88 wins wouldn't have been enough to win any other division in baseball

5) All-In still didn't work to draw in additional crowd support in April/May...thus depriving of us of additional revenue streams to add that "one, final piece" to put us over the top and make us a legit World Series contender

6) Even the kid from LITTLE BIG LEAGUE would win the AL Central occasionally having $128 million to spend on his roster

Honestly, if this is what you guys all believe, what does that say about you when you are devoting this much of your life to a team you feel this way about?

[Jordan4life_2007]

Honestly, if this is what you guys all believe, what does that say about you when you are devoting this much of your life to a team you feel this way about?

 

Shack, you gotta cool it with that. Do you really believe Milk, fathom, caulfield, myself and so on have nothing better to do with our time? If we REALLY hated the White Sox and wanted them to lose just so we could b**** we'd be pretty pathetic. Pessimistic? No doubt. But we all love the team. Even when they suck. Which is quite often (by my standards) since 2005.

Edited May 24, 2011 by Jordan4life

[caulfield12]

Honestly, if this is what you guys all believe, what does that say about you when you are devoting this much of your life to a team you feel this way about?

 

I thought i was being facetious or fictitious, as Yogi Berra would put it.

 

IF IF IF we can make it to the playoffs, with our rotation, we'd have just as good a chance as any team to win it. We don't need the homefield advantage because we're better on the road, anyway.

 

Unfortunately, more often than not, we're making the argument we could win the World Series with our talent yet we often can't even get out of our own division.

[iamshack]

Shack, you gotta cool it with that. Do you really believe Milk, fathom, caulfield, myself and so on have nothing better to do with our time? If we REALLY hated the White Sox and wanted them to lose just so we could b**** we'd be pretty pathetic. Pessimistic? No doubt. But we all love the team. Even when they suck. Which is quite often (by my standards) since 2005.

Fair enough. I don't believe you, but this is one of your "The world is over, woe is me" threads, so I guess it's my own fault for coming in here.

 

[Steve9347]

So in your mind, there are no moves that show his competence, only those which are fireable offenses?

 

This is getting laughable.

You really suck at reading comprehension. I'm saying that there have been enough brutal, punt millions upon millions of dollars worth of moves, that it's FINALLY caught up to him after I supported him his entire tenure.

 

Stop being such a troll and read some posts.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Fair enough. I don't believe you, but this is one of your "The world is over, woe is me" threads, so I guess it's my own fault for coming in here.

 

You don't believe me? What does that mean? That I've had nothing better to do since 2003 then b**** about a team that I secretly hate?

[Steve9347]

you b**** when win.

No. I don't consider a 12-9 stretch to get them within 5 games of .500 "winning", though. I've been to six games already, it's not like I'm some f***ing ship jumper. I just want someone held accountable for the joke I've been supporting.

[fathom]

Fair enough. I don't believe you, but this is one of your "The world is over, woe is me" threads, so I guess it's my own fault for coming in here.

 

For me, if the Sox fail to make the playoffs this year, I think KW and Ozzie both need to go. KW's philosophy of neglecting the farm system and trying to patch up holes via trades looks to be running it course. As for Ozzie, he's better off going to Florida instead of managing a team that is looking to go a little younger. It doesn't matter how people on here view KW's moves the last few years...it's the results on the field that matter and three straight non-postseason teams with the huge payroll we've had should equate to front office changes.

[iamshack]

You really suck at reading comprehension. I'm saying that there have been enough brutal, punt millions upon millions of dollars worth of moves, that it's FINALLY caught up to him after I supported him his entire tenure.

 

Stop being such a troll and read some posts.

I don't know if you think you're communicating via osmosis, but the topic of your thread is the Official Alex Rios Suck thread, you've done nothing but make lists of poor signings, and the only signing you have mentioned in a non-negative light is the Adam Dunn signing.

 

I don't think this is a reading comprehension issue as much as you not knowing how to respond to valid points, so you lash out like an 8 year old like you always have.

[iamshack]

You don't believe me? What does that mean? That I've had nothing better to do since 2003 then b**** about a team that I secretly hate?

J, you're practically non-existent when the team is playing well. You seem to thrive when the team is not playing well. In fact, you have made it a point to mention this on several occasions.

[iamshack]

For me, if the Sox fail to make the playoffs this year, I think KW and Ozzie both need to go. KW's philosophy of neglecting the farm system and trying to patch up holes via trades looks to be running it course. As for Ozzie, he's better off going to Florida instead of managing a team that is looking to go a little younger. It doesn't matter how people on here view KW's moves the last few years...it's the results on the field that matter and three straight non-postseason teams with the huge payroll we've had should equate to front office changes.

That's fine, Fathom. I respect that.

 

What is hard for me to understand is the irresponsible posts that suggest contingencies which either 1) do not exist as possibilities, such as "trade Rios and Peavy and Dunn and Buehrle RIGHT NOW,"; 2) are clearly reactionary, such as "fire someone just so someone gets fired," and 3) blanket statements that are clearly a result of frustration but not based in any reality or fact, such as "Adam Dunn is a terrible baseball player."

 

One or five times, I can handle this s***. Every goddamned day? It gets really, really old. Really f***ing old.

[Jordan4life_2007]

J, you're practically non-existent when the team is playing well. You seem to thrive when the team is not playing well. In fact, you have made it a point to mention this on several occasions.

 

First of all, I said that about the Bulls. Not the Sox. And I'm wayyyyyyyyyy more of a Sox fan than I am a Bulls fan. Second, I don't get fooled by a hot week or two with this team. We see this all the time. It's the inconsistency that drives me crazy. If Sizemore doesn't drop that fly ball and if we don't get that home game (which we didn't really deserve) in '08, this team is 0/10. Yeah. If, if, if. I get that. But they do this every year. They go into these prolonged funks, get hot for a stretch or two, win 83-87 games and miss the playoffs. I'd rather win 60 games and get a Longoria than win 85 games and still miss the playoffs.

[fathom]

That's fine, Fathom. I respect that.

 

What is hard for me to understand is the irresponsible posts that suggest contingencies which either 1) do not exist as possibilities, such as "trade Rios and Peavy and Dunn and Buehrle RIGHT NOW,"; 2) are clearly reactionary, such as "fire someone just so someone gets fired," and 3) blanket statements that are clearly a result of frustration but not based in any reality or fact, such as "Adam Dunn is a terrible baseball player."

 

One or five times, I can handle this s***. Every goddamned day? It gets really, really old. Really f***ing old.

 

Why isn't trading Buehrle a possibility? Can't he re-work his option if he's traded to a destination he wants to go to, like St. Louis? Also, it's hard to get mad at someone saying Dunn is a terrible baseball player this year. People have made so many excuses for him, but as an overall baseball player, he's worthless if he's not hitting home runs.

[Balta1701]

Why isn't trading Buehrle a possibility? Can't he re-work his option if he's traded to a destination he wants to go to, like St. Louis? Also, it's hard to get mad at someone saying Dunn is a terrible baseball player this year. People have made so many excuses for him, but as an overall baseball player, he's worthless if he's not hitting home runs.

People are still suggesting wending buehrle to st louis? Sigh

[Steve9347]

you lash out like an 8 year old like you always have.

Alrighty, if that's how you perceive me, it's all good in my book.

 

I'm trying to find a good acquisition the last three seasons. I really am. KW has made great moves, and I adore the man for his work from 2003-2006. Since we won the World Series, the Danks/Floyd acquisitions were great. The Thome acquisition was great.

 

Those were a long, long time ago. I mean, just look at these rosters since 2006.

 

2007

2008

2009

2010

2011

 

I mean, feel free to enlighten me on the "good acquisitions" the Chicago White Sox have come up with since the oft-injured, up-and-down Carlos Quentin. Orlando Cabrera? The regime ran him out of town. JJ Putz? Don't you dare say Beckham or Sale, because the jury is very much still out on both players.

 

So I leave it in your hands since you're such a f***ing brilliant know-it-all. Show me these magic great acquisitions.

 

The truth of the matter is, KW is having one of the worst stretches of General Managing, with a huge budget, that I can remember save the situations on the North Side, in New York (Mets), and Los Angeles (Dodgers).

 

[iamshack]

Why isn't trading Buehrle a possibility? Can't he re-work his option if he's traded to a destination he wants to go to, like St. Louis? Also, it's hard to get mad at someone saying Dunn is a terrible baseball player this year. People have made so many excuses for him, but as an overall baseball player, he's worthless if he's not hitting home runs.

I'm referring to the notion of trading all 4 of them, not just Mark.

 

Dunn has been horrendous this year, there is no denying that. Stating that he is a terrible baseball player is incredibly oversimplistic and just stupid.

 

Fine guys, you know what, you've ruined PHT for me with your incessant crying and whining. Every motherf***ing day after day after day with the same negative crybaby nonsense.

 

I'll stay the hell away.

 

Enjoy your misery.

Edited May 24, 2011 by iamshack