bigruss Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ May 24, 2011 -> 06:58 PM) Alrighty, if that's how you perceive me, it's all good in my book. I'm trying to find a good acquisition the last three seasons. I really am. KW has made great moves, and I adore the man for his work from 2003-2006. Since we won the World Series, the Danks/Floyd acquisitions were great. The Thome acquisition was great. Those were a long, long time ago. I mean, just look at these rosters since 2006. 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 I mean, feel free to enlighten me on the "good acquisitions" the Chicago White Sox have come up with since the oft-injured, up-and-down Carlos Quentin. Orlando Cabrera? The regime ran him out of town. JJ Putz? Don't you dare say Beckham or Sale, because the jury is very much still out on both players. So I leave it in your hands since you're such a f***ing brilliant know-it-all. Show me these magic great acquisitions. The truth of the matter is, KW is having one of the worst stretches of General Managing, with a huge budget, that I can remember save the situations on the North Side, in New York (Mets), and Los Angeles (Dodgers). To be fair, the Cubs and Mets have been pretty awful considering their payrolls too. Atleast the Cubs can point at the Pujols led Cards, and the Mets can blame having to compete vs. the Braves and the lately stellar Phillies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ May 24, 2011 -> 07:58 PM) Orlando Cabrera? The regime ran him out of town. How do you run an unrestricted FA out of town? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 24, 2011 -> 07:03 PM) How do you run an unrestricted FA out of town? The Sox offered him arbitration and he took a much less of a deal to get away from the Sox. Neither side wanted him back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 25, 2011 -> 12:58 AM) People are still suggesting wending buehrle to st louis? Sigh Why not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ May 24, 2011 -> 08:05 PM) The Sox offered him arbitration and he took a much less of a deal to get away from the Sox. Neither side wanted him back. In other words he was an unrestricted FA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 QUOTE (fathom @ May 24, 2011 -> 08:05 PM) Why not? Frankly it is just so old sounding. There's about a dozen reasons that aren't worth wasting time repeating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 24, 2011 -> 07:06 PM) In other words he was an unrestricted FA. In other words, the team signing him still had to give up a 1st or 2nd round pick no matter what, even had to include a clause that they wouldn't offer him arbitration the next offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ May 24, 2011 -> 08:07 PM) In other words, the team signing him still had to give up a 1st or 2nd round pick no matter what, even had to include a clause that they wouldn't offer him arbitration the next offseason. Because the sox really wanted those picks so they screwed him a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted May 25, 2011 Author Share Posted May 25, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 24, 2011 -> 07:03 PM) How do you run an unrestricted FA out of town? Wow. Where on Earth were you during the 2008 season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 24, 2011 -> 07:08 PM) Because the sox really wanted those picks so they screwed him a bit. Yup, the Sox felt confident enough that Cabrera wanted nothing to do with the Sox that he would turn down arbitration to go to another team for less than half of the salary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted May 25, 2011 Author Share Posted May 25, 2011 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ May 24, 2011 -> 07:02 PM) To be fair, the Cubs and Mets have been pretty awful considering their payrolls too. Atleast the Cubs can point at the Pujols led Cards, and the Mets can blame having to compete vs. the Braves and the lately stellar Phillies. Did you not read to the end of my post? I specifically listed those two teams, as well as the Dodgers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ May 24, 2011 -> 08:12 PM) Yup, the Sox felt confident enough that Cabrera wanted nothing to do with the Sox that he would turn down arbitration to go to another team for less than half of the salary. Nobody thought he'd get half the salary until the market collapsed that winter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 24, 2011 -> 07:13 PM) Nobody thought he'd get half the salary until the market collapsed that winter. Look, the Sox were confident enough that Cabrera would take a deal elsewhere, and apparently cabrera had enough of the Sox organization to turn down a lot of guaranteed money so that he could sign elsewhere, and that was the risk he took. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ May 24, 2011 -> 08:15 PM) Look, the Sox were confident enough that Cabrera would take a deal elsewhere, and apparently cabrera had enough of the Sox organization to turn down a lot of guaranteed money so that he could sign elsewhere, and that was the risk he took. In other words , he wasn't run out of town and that's a nearly libelous way to describe it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted May 25, 2011 Author Share Posted May 25, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 24, 2011 -> 07:21 PM) In other words , he wasn't run out of town and that's a nearly libelous way to describe it Wow. It was well-documented that Guillen and Cabrera butted heads all season long, and Cabrera had to be reprimanded for b****ing about error calls. "Well, for the very reason that Alexei [Ramirez] is at shortstop and one of the kids will be the second baseman, I don't think Orlando wants to come back on an arbitration offer and be a utility guy," said Williams. I remember the tone of that quote as well. Kenny was telling the All-Star shortstop to take a hike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ May 24, 2011 -> 05:47 PM) So what if this team were to win the division? What would your opinion be then? Just making it isn't enough. They could stumble into the playoffs as in 2008, get demolished, and it'd be a failure still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ May 24, 2011 -> 05:55 PM) At this point you're just stomping your feet and throwing a tantrum. You offer no real solutions other than change for the sake of change. You have proposed no plan for which this rebuild should occur. You've identified no takers for these salaries, no potential targets to trade our valuable chips for, and no timetable for which this should all occur. No amount of progress made is good enough, even when we've been unbeaten in 6 consecutive series' with over 110 games remaining. You b**** when we lose, you b**** when win. Have to love baseball fans... Do you want me to put together an essay of every single possible trade scenario/draft pick/free agent signing/front office hire? I don't have the resources to have any clue what other teams would want from us. A post like that would just turn this thread into one of those useless "We should trade ____ for ____" threads. We'd start by firing KW and replacing him with Hahn. He would then replace Ozzie with someone (likely Cora for the rest of the year if it's done in-season, and then from a list of available candidates), hopefully Dave Martinez or any guy that's not an old-fashioned "gut" guy like Guillen. You continue to say that I just stomp my feet and offer no solutions. I constantly give options (DFA Pierre to bring up Viciedo, keep Milledge instead of Lillibridge, keep Gray and DFA/trade Peña for anything). I've become confident that you don't even read the entirety of my posts, just believing each to say "FIRE OZZIE DFA DUNN PUNCH DANKS IN THE PENIS!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ May 24, 2011 -> 06:47 PM) I don't know if you think you're communicating via osmosis, but the topic of your thread is the Official Alex Rios Suck thread, you've done nothing but make lists of poor signings, and the only signing you have mentioned in a non-negative light is the Adam Dunn signing. I don't think this is a reading comprehension issue as much as you not knowing how to respond to valid points, so you lash out like an 8 year old like you always have. Buddy, I think that's you. You're the one saying that people are "stomping their feet" and "b****ing just to b****" in response to clear evidence that KW hasn't done a very good job in the last few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ May 24, 2011 -> 07:29 PM) Wow. It was well-documented that Guillen and Cabrera butted heads all season long, and Cabrera had to be reprimanded for b****ing about error calls. "Well, for the very reason that Alexei [Ramirez] is at shortstop and one of the kids will be the second baseman, I don't think Orlando wants to come back on an arbitration offer and be a utility guy," said Williams. I remember the tone of that quote as well. Kenny was telling the All-Star shortstop to take a hike. Yeah, the tone was that "You better decline arbitration because you'll just ride the bench all season." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 24, 2011 -> 05:26 PM) Javy Vazquez had $22 million or so sitting on his contract and had basically been left off of the postseason roster. We got the Braves to absorb that entire contract and got something with a chance of success back. A year later, the Braves got a great season out of Vazquez, and they dumped him on the Yankees for Melky Cabrera, who they cut within the space of a year for being terrible. Not to mention it was while the biggest economic meltdown in 4 generations was going on, they got the Braves to pick up that entire contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 24, 2011 -> 07:03 PM) How do you run an unrestricted FA out of town? maybe he hasn't heard of this Ramirez kid, I hear he is a pretty good SS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 24, 2011 -> 09:08 PM) maybe he hasn't heard of this Ramirez kid, I hear he is a pretty good SS. Supposed to be an even better CFer, which if I remember correctly has been a position void of production for quite a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 I remain optimistic based on the way the pitching has been lately. Sure I think Pierre at the top of the lineup is bad. I look at Rios and Beckham and their funky batting stances and grimace when they suck. I look at Josh Hamilton and see the kind of batting stance I love, relaxed ,just the right amount away from the plate. I want Dunn to wake up . I couldn't have imagined he'd be this bad overall and Kotsay bad against lefties.I think some minor tweaks would help a lot but unfortunately I doubt they will happen, such as Pierre leading off until Ozzie is fired then you have to fire Ozzie. Sitting Dunn against lefties and calling up Viciedo, who mashes lefties. But God forbid we bench our big free agent signing. Since we are pretty far behind at this point I think these changes need to made sooner rather than later and that won't happen. Have I given up on the season because of that ? Not really but sheesh Reinsdorf needs to let Kenny do what has to be done . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigHurt Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 You say we're better off going for the division and hoping to maintain payroll. Who's going for the division? This team has been out of it almost the entire season and has shown no signs of being a division contender unless for some reason we have Cleveland's number and beat them all year. I mean win almost every game against them. We still can't beat the Twins head to head and have only played them twice. They will dominate us again this year. We can't beat Det. We'll go .500 at best vs. KC. Sox are toast, so why not dump salary??? Try something different and that means dumping Rios, Peavy, Dunn, Mark or Jackson and AJP. Start the reloading now. Dump as much salary as you can. My god you're just as terrible a pessimist as you were an optimist. I guess asking you to be sensible is just too much? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ May 24, 2011 -> 07:02 PM) To be fair, the Cubs and Mets have been pretty awful considering their payrolls too. Atleast the Cubs can point at the Pujols led Cards, and the Mets can blame having to compete vs. the Braves and the lately stellar Phillies. But the White Sox can't point at the Twins having Joe Mauer, Justin Morneau, and Johan Santana? That doesn't make a lot of sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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