5/29 at Blue Jays

[kitekrazy]

I posted this in another thread.

 

 

Its time for him to go. The minute you start ripping on the fans in some fit of rage because the seat gets a bit hot. You have overstayed your welcome.

 

"

 

Cooper should have been the first one out the door then.

 

[kitekrazy]

Ozzie has avg 86 wins a season at the helm, as I already said in the other thread.. And a lot of those times, its been without the same level of talent as the other contending teams..

 

Is it really Ozzies fault that Rios cant hit water if he fell out of a boat? It must be because of Ozzie that Adam Dunn suddenly forgot how to be worth a damn.. Where is the line here of who is to blame? The coach who seemingly HAS been able to get the most out of what hes been giving, or the dude who gave him these mediocre players in the first place?

 

Weve already gone over a million times how KW hasn't really made any good moves in years.. well what if someone was GM that WAS making good moves.. do you think this team would still be under performing with Ozzie as manager? I don't.

 

The farm system's a joke and that falls on Kenny as well.

 

[iamshack]

Ozzie has avg 86 wins a season at the helm, as I already said in the other thread.. And a lot of those times, its been without the same level of talent as the other contending teams..

 

Is it really Ozzies fault that Rios cant hit water if he fell out of a boat? It must be because of Ozzie that Adam Dunn suddenly forgot how to be worth a damn.. Where is the line here of who is to blame? The coach who seemingly HAS been able to get the most out of what hes been giving, or the dude who gave him these mediocre players in the first place?

 

Weve already gone over a million times how KW hasn't really made any good moves in years.. well what if someone was GM that WAS making good moves.. do you think this team would still be under performing with Ozzie as manager? I don't.

This notion that Kenny has done nothing good is pure nonsense. We just freaking signed Humber and turned him into one of the better SPs in the AL thus far. Sergio Santos has become one of the better closers in the league. These players are under team control at practically nothing if we want them. Kenny went out and signed Adam Dunn, and while it hasn't worked out, I don't really understand how we are going to fault him for a guy that just inexplicably falls of a damn ledge overnight.

 

I realize that Alex Rios is not hitting and Jake Peavy has been injured and hasn't lived up to his massive contract. Fault Kenny for being overly aggressive there if you'd like.

 

But some of this stuff is just ridiculous and inexplicable. The performance of Matt Thornton, John Danks and Adam Dunn thus far this year is so far off their career norms that I am not sure a GM in baseball, or anyone for that matter, could have predicted this.

 

I don't know if it is Ozzie, I don't know if it is the collection of guys in the clubhouse, I don't know if it is the gods of baseball or what...but there is all kinds of talent on this team that that continually underperforms in ways that no one saw coming. I know people want heads to roll and accountability, but I've got news for most folks...there are not too many people in baseball that didn't think Adam Dunn wasn't exactly what the White Sox lineup needed this season. Faulting the FO, and even the on-field management for the way these guys have played is just applying results that could not have been forseen retroatively in some sort of cruel joke.

 

I'm baffled. I didn't love the Dunn signing, but this? No f***ing way did anyone see this coming.

[BigEdWalsh]

Ozzie has avg 86 wins a season at the helm, as I already said in the other thread.. And a lot of those times, its been without the same level of talent as the other contending teams..

 

Is it really Ozzies fault that Rios cant hit water if he fell out of a boat? It must be because of Ozzie that Adam Dunn suddenly forgot how to be worth a damn.. Where is the line here of who is to blame? The coach who seemingly HAS been able to get the most out of what hes been giving, or the dude who gave him these mediocre players in the first place?

 

Weve already gone over a million times how KW hasn't really made any good moves in years.. well what if someone was GM that WAS making good moves.. do you think this team would still be under performing with Ozzie as manager? I don't.

Not counting 2005, Ozzie's win avg. is a much more mediocre 83 and I would say that the level of talent on the White Sox over the course of his reign has been superior at least in the Central to that of the other teams. Of course all the woes of the White Sox are not directly Ozzie's fault but pretty much the same could be said of every other manager/head coach in the history of sports who has ever been fired. The White Sox have a lot of problems. Changes need to be made and I feel like a major overhaul at the top level (manager and coaching staff) would be a good start.

[T R U]

This notion that Kenny has done nothing good is pure nonsense. We just freaking signed Humber and turned him into one of the better SPs in the AL thus far. Sergio Santos has become one of the better closers in the league. These players are under team control at practically nothing if we want them. Kenny went out and signed Adam Dunn, and while it hasn't worked out, I don't really understand how we are going to fault him for a guy that just inexplicably falls of a damn ledge overnight.

 

I realize that Alex Rios is not hitting and Jake Peavy has been injured and hasn't lived up to his massive contract. Fault Kenny for being overly aggressive there if you'd like.

 

But some of this stuff is just ridiculous and inexplicable. The performance of Matt Thornton, John Danks and Adam Dunn thus far this year is so far off their career norms that I am not sure a GM in baseball, or anyone for that matter, could have predicted this.

 

I don't know if it is Ozzie, I don't know if it is the collection of guys in the clubhouse, I don't know if it is the gods of baseball or what...but there is all kinds of talent on this team that that continually underperforms in ways that no one saw coming. I know people want heads to roll and accountability, but I've got news for most folks...there are not too many people in baseball that didn't think Adam Dunn wasn't exactly what the White Sox lineup needed this season. Faulting the FO, and even the on-field management for the way these guys have played is just applying results that could not have been forseen retroatively in some sort of cruel joke.

 

I'm baffled. I didn't love the Dunn signing, but this? No f***ing way did anyone see this coming.

 

I don't agree with the consensus that KW hasn't done anything good in years, I was basically just saying what everyone else pretty much thinks around here..

 

BUT.. he still went out and got these players and they have more or less been non factors.. If anything, he should be the one to go before Ozzie..

 

I agree with you that it is just baffling how Dunn and some of the others cant do anything right now.. but outside of his media outbursts, I dont think hes been a bad manager at all

[T R U]

Not counting 2005, Ozzie's win avg. is a much more mediocre 83 and I would say that the level of talent on the White Sox over the course of his reign has been superior at least in the Central to that of the other teams. Of course all the woes of the White Sox are not directly Ozzie's fault but pretty much the same could be said of every other manager/head coach in the history of sports who has ever been fired. The White Sox have a lot of problems. Changes need to be made and I feel like a major overhaul at the top level (manager and coaching staff) would be a good start.

 

Ok, so not counting 2007 his win avg. is much greater than 86

 

I can play this game too!!

[BigEdWalsh]

Ok, so not counting 2007 his win avg. is much greater than 86

 

I can play this game too!!

You started that game. Whatever you think of his overall record the White Sox are right now really BAD and when teams under perform the manager is often shown the door. That's just the way it is.

[greg775]

Ozzie has avg 86 wins a season at the helm, as I already said in the other thread.. And a lot of those times, its been without the same level of talent as the other contending teams..

 

Is it really Ozzies fault that Rios cant hit water if he fell out of a boat? It must be because of Ozzie that Adam Dunn suddenly forgot how to be worth a damn.. Where is the line here of who is to blame? The coach who seemingly HAS been able to get the most out of what hes been giving, or the dude who gave him these mediocre players in the first place?

 

Weve already gone over a million times how KW hasn't really made any good moves in years.. well what if someone was GM that WAS making good moves.. do you think this team would still be under performing with Ozzie as manager? I don't.

 

I've always been in favor of blaming the players more than the manager.

But I think even Ozzie would not be surprised if he got canned. He wouldn't go kicking and screaming. And he'll have a managing job next year for sure. He's a great prototype of what you want in a manager. He won't be nearly as outspoken in any other city. This is Chicago, his city and his team. You really believe he'd say this s*** if he was manager of the Marlins or Phillies?

[Jordan4life_2007]

This notion that Kenny has done nothing good is pure nonsense. We just freaking signed Humber and turned him into one of the better SPs in the AL thus far. Sergio Santos has become one of the better closers in the league. These players are under team control at practically nothing if we want them. Kenny went out and signed Adam Dunn, and while it hasn't worked out, I don't really understand how we are going to fault him for a guy that just inexplicably falls of a damn ledge overnight.

 

I realize that Alex Rios is not hitting and Jake Peavy has been injured and hasn't lived up to his massive contract. Fault Kenny for being overly aggressive there if you'd like.

 

But some of this stuff is just ridiculous and inexplicable. The performance of Matt Thornton, John Danks and Adam Dunn thus far this year is so far off their career norms that I am not sure a GM in baseball, or anyone for that matter, could have predicted this.

 

I don't know if it is Ozzie, I don't know if it is the collection of guys in the clubhouse, I don't know if it is the gods of baseball or what...but there is all kinds of talent on this team that that continually underperforms in ways that no one saw coming. I know people want heads to roll and accountability, but I've got news for most folks...there are not too many people in baseball that didn't think Adam Dunn wasn't exactly what the White Sox lineup needed this season. Faulting the FO, and even the on-field management for the way these guys have played is just applying results that could not have been forseen retroatively in some sort of cruel joke.

 

I'm baffled. I didn't love the Dunn signing, but this? No f***ing way did anyone see this coming.

 

Kenny really has done nothing good since '07. How is this a debate? His crowning achievements are Phillip Humber and Sergio Santos? That's all you could come up with? Now I'll totally give you Dunn. I don't know what to say there. But Peavy and Rios were major risks. And he took those risks. I'll give him credit for that. But they haven't worked out. At all. So he deserves criticism. I won't get into our embarrassing mess of a farm. But he has been pretty much the centerpiece of the demise there. The bottomline is this team is a coinflip away from 5 and it's looking like 6 straight missed postseasons since '05. If it's not KW? Who the f*** is it? Ozzie? Well f***ing do something about it. This s*** year after year is gross.

[T R U]

You started that game. Whatever you think of his overall record the White Sox are right now really BAD and when teams under perform the manager is often shown the door. That's just the way it is.

 

I know, but I just cant see how this is Ozzies fault.. If you wanna talk about his outbursts as a reason to can him, then I cant really argue that

[iamshack]

Kenny really has done nothing good since '07. How is this a debate? His crowning achievements are Phillip Humber and Sergio Santos? That's all you could come up with? Now I'll totally give you Dunn. I don't know what to say there. But Peavy and Rios were major risks. And he took those risks. I'll give him credit for that. But they haven't worked out. At all. So he deserves criticism. I won't get into our embarrassing mess of a farm. But he has been pretty much the centerpiece of the demise there. The bottomline is this team is a coinflip away from 5 and it's looking like 6 straight missed postseasons since '05. If it's not KW? Who the f*** is it? Ozzie? Well f***ing do something about it. This s*** year after year is gross.

He adds 2-3 players a year at basically no cost that turn out to be above-average players. If you look around at other organizations, he does this as well as anyone. This vaunted Twins system you speak of...does it really ultimately produce anything more than what we are able to produce? You and others like to rag on the farm system all the time, but we ultimately produce the same outcome through other means, via trades, waivers, or international free agent signings. We can go down the list and pull out cost-controlled players we have acquired that will basically match or exceed what other organizations are producing. There has been plenty of talent here over the years to win division title after division title, and to advance deep into the playoffs. The problem is the execution on the field. And honestly, I have a hard time pinning that on Kenny. Maybe he isn't getting the chemistry right, perhaps that is his biggest fault But in my opinion, the players have been there, we just aren't getting it done on the field.

 

I blame that on the players first and Ozzie second.

[macsandz]

He adds 2-3 players a year at basically no cost that turn out to be above-average players. If you look around at other organizations, he does this as well as anyone. This vaunted Twins system you speak of...does it really ultimately produce anything more than what we are able to produce? You and others like to rag on the farm system all the time, but we ultimately produce the same outcome through other means, via trades, waivers, or international free agent signings. We can go down the list and pull out cost-controlled players we have acquired that will basically match or exceed what other organizations are producing. There has been plenty of talent here over the years to win division title after division title, and to advance deep into the playoffs. The problem is the execution on the field. And honestly, I have a hard time pinning that on Kenny. Maybe he isn't getting the chemistry right, perhaps that is his biggest fault But in my opinion, the players have been there, we just aren't getting it done on the field.

 

I blame that on the players first and Ozzie second.

 

Designing a team around some kind if mythical "chemistry" is ridiculous. You win games - you get chemistry.

That's it.

[iamshack]

Designing a team around some kind if mythical "chemistry" is ridiculous. You win games - you get chemistry.

That's it.

Well, then it's difficult to fault him IMO. If you look at the rosters he's given Ozzie to work with over the last 6 seasons, we should have many more division titles and playoff series' wins to speak of.

[Jordan4life_2007]

He adds 2-3 players a year at basically no cost that turn out to be above-average players. If you look around at other organizations, he does this as well as anyone. This vaunted Twins system you speak of...does it really ultimately produce anything more than what we are able to produce? You and others like to rag on the farm system all the time, but we ultimately produce the same outcome through other means, via trades, waivers, or international free agent signings. We can go down the list and pull out cost-controlled players we have acquired that will basically match or exceed what other organizations are producing. There has been plenty of talent here over the years to win division title after division title, and to advance deep into the playoffs. The problem is the execution on the field. And honestly, I have a hard time pinning that on Kenny. Maybe he isn't getting the chemistry right, perhaps that is his biggest fault But in my opinion, the players have been there, we just aren't getting it done on the field.

 

I blame that on the players first and Ozzie second.

 

The bold is crazy talk. Who the hell are you talking about? This hasn't happened since '07. Danks, Floyd, CQ and Ramirez. And two of those 4 are getting expensive. One is destined to walk via FA. And there's nothing at all in the cupboard. What has happened since then? Are you really that sold on Humber? Or are you just looking for anything? How dare you compare us to organizations like the Braves, Phillies, Rockies, Red Sox,. And then the Rangers and Reds of recent years? Or even Tampa. And I'm not talking about Longoria and Price. What they've done in that division is nothing short of spectacular. And that's not just because they've had some high picks a few years back. Matt Joyce is an MVP candidate right now and they got him for the underachieving guy Coop supposedly loved and he's walking after this year. But let's forget about all this for two seconds. What Kenny has or hasn't done or what's his fault or what isn't his fault. How do you feel about this organization going forward? The future. The outlook. Because that's ultimately what's most important. We can get ito a battle royal over how good KW really. But going forward. How do you feel?

[macsandz]

Well, then it's difficult to fault him IMO. If you look at the rosters he's given Ozzie to work with over the last 6 seasons, we should have many more division titles and playoff series' wins to speak of.

 

Agreed.

[iamshack]

The bold is crazy talk. Who the hell are you talking about? This hasn't happened since '07. Danks, Floyd, CQ and Ramirez. And two of those 4 are getting expensive. One is destined to walk via FA. And there's nothing at all in the cupboard. What has happened since then? Are you really that sold on Humber? Or are you just looking for anything? How dare you compare us to organizations like the Braves, Phillies, Rockies, Red Sox,. And then the Rangers and Reds of recent years? Or even Tampa. And I'm not talking about Longoria and Price. What they've done in that division is nothing short of spectacular. And that's not just because they've had some high picks a few years back. Matt Joyce is an MVP candidate right now and they got him for the underachieving guy Coop supposedly loved and he's walking after this year. But let's forget about all this for two seconds. What Kenny has or hasn't done or what's his fault or what isn't his fault. How do you feel about this organization going forward? The future. The outlook. Because that's ultimately what's most important. We can get ito a battle royal over how good KW really. But going forward. How do you feel?

You're so much of a "grass is greener" guy. Add Bobby Jenks/Sergio Santos/Phil Humber/Jose Contreras/Matt Thorrnton/Jim Thome to that group....all for basically nothing. I mean produce a list from other organizations of developed players or FA acquistions where virtually no resources were expeneded that blows that away....

 

I'll give you the success of the Braves/Phillies/Red Sox, and I am not saying we are the best-run organization in baseball. There are certainly others out there that do things extraordinarily well. But I'm not going to slurp on Texas and Colorado and Tampa, who were able to take a developmental path while sucking for years with little or no pressure to succeed. And over the long haul, these organizations have accomplished absolutely nothing that we haven't. But because they happen to have young talent now, you are slurping them, with the luxury of ignoring the past when they were doormats while we were competing for division championships year in and year out. That is a bulls*** way of looking at things and you damn-well know it.

 

As for our future, I continue to believe we can succeed with this core. There is too much talent here for it to just dissolve like a fart in the wind with no explanation whatsoever. And when we do indeed decide to go young again, and at some point we will, I am confident that some of the assets we have will net us a good start towards rebuilding a talented young nucleus. If we pair that with a development strategy that can exist with the luxury of a poor big league club (that the fans know is a rebuilding organization), I am fully confident that we can be back. We did it in the late 80's/early 90's and we've managed to compete virtually EVERY year since then. We have not always gotten the results we strived for but we have been competitve for a 20 year span. Not many other organizations in all of professional sports can boast a winning percentage like we have over that span of years. Nonetheless, we may have finally exhausted our resources and this model may have run it's course. But when that time comes, I feel we have some assets that will give us a lot bigger head start than a lot of you guys do.

[caulfield12]

You build chemistry by players trusting each other, progressing forward step by step through the minor league system, learning how to win together, being taught the key organizational learning outcomes so that they don't have to be taught or retrained at the major league level.

 

Why do we have so many "Camp Coras" that seem to be designed only to make us believe the hype that a Josh Fields, Mark Teahen or Dayan Viciedo could be a legit MLB 3B? Why have so many of the bunting practice sessions and early work failed to work with countless Sox players like Brian Anderson or Alexei Ramirez? Why is it that our biggest defensive "progression" (Alexei last year...obviously not followed up in 2011) was credited more to the presence of Omar Vizquel to his right (and not Teahen) rather than anything the coaching staff did?

 

When you just have a collection of talented players without any cohesiveness, a lot of that has to come down on the manager to make them "jell" together as a team, like it or not.

 

Ozzie was successful in the early stages of his managing career, and in 2008, but has largely been a failure the last 3 seasons. Basically, the only reason to still believe in Ozzie is one long anomalous run through the interleague schedule.

 

Rios is a perfect example. One of the most talented players in the game, but only 1/30 organizations was willing to take that contract on, and KW was essentially betting that we were the organization/coaching staff who could pull off the impossible. Maybe NOBODY can "fix" Alex Rios, you have to consider that possibility...still, you can't just bet millions of contract dollars that a change of scenery will result in positive results for more than one month out of the last year years at $12-13 million per season because you as a GM haven't been able to come up with an adequate MLB CFer since 2005.

 

The reason 2005/2006 can't be duplicated or used as a blueprint for success is that turning over 8-10 players (30-40%) of your roster every offseason simply doesn't work unless you have the $75-125 million in extra payroll that the Yankees and Red Sox can allocate to cover those mistakes like Dice-K, Irabu, Lackey, Igawa, Posada, etc.

 

 

Edited May 30, 2011 by caulfield12

[Milkman delivers]

I hate the pissing match that always arises when people starting arguing over who deserves to be fired more between KW and Ozzie.

 

The results are there for anyone to see, and neither one of them should be safe. I don't care who goes first. The fact is that one of them needs to go very soon.

[The Ginger Kid]

I kind of dig the chaos.

[fathom]

Designing a team around some kind if mythical "chemistry" is ridiculous. You win games - you get chemistry.

That's it.

 

The team won games in 2008, and the chemistry seemed to be HORRIBLE.

[iamshack]

The team won games in 2008, and the chemistry seemed to be HORRIBLE.

The team in 2008....how many of us thought we'd have any chance to win anything that year after the way 2007 went? This is why I am so hesitant to buy into this rebuild philosophy and this fire Kenny philosophy.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

I hate the pissing match that always arises when people starting arguing over who deserves to be fired more between KW and Ozzie.

 

The results are there for anyone to see, and neither one of them should be safe. I don't care who goes first. The fact is that one of them needs to go very soon.

Ozzie definitely should go first. KW at least deserves a shot at bringing someone else in to see if he can salvage the season after spending so much to put this roster on the field.

 

 

[claydude14]

Kenny didn't spend the money, he got the greenlight to spend the money from JR. And honestly, this offseason I did not have any qualms about what he did (Dunn, Konerko, AJ, Crain, bye bye Bobby).

 

Ozzie trying to call out the fans did piss me off. I don't live in the Chi-Town area, but has there ever been any police reports about people pissing on the 05 World Series monument? Figured I would have heard something; can't recall hearing anything. Seems like he was just being overdramatic. You can s*** on your players all you want in the media to try and light a fire under their ass, I don't care. But calling out Sox fans for revoking the now expired 5 year free pass? Give me a break.

 

Don't treat the fans like s***. They buy the tickets.

[Jordan4life_2007]

You're so much of a "grass is greener" guy. Add Bobby Jenks/Sergio Santos/Phil Humber/Jose Contreras/Matt Thorrnton/Jim Thome to that group....all for basically nothing. I mean produce a list from other organizations of developed players or FA acquistions where virtually no resources were expeneded that blows that away....

 

I'll give you the success of the Braves/Phillies/Red Sox, and I am not saying we are the best-run organization in baseball. There are certainly others out there that do things extraordinarily well. But I'm not going to slurp on Texas and Colorado and Tampa, who were able to take a developmental path while sucking for years with little or no pressure to succeed. And over the long haul, these organizations have accomplished absolutely nothing that we haven't. But because they happen to have young talent now, you are slurping them, with the luxury of ignoring the past when they were doormats while we were competing for division championships year in and year out. That is a bulls*** way of looking at things and you damn-well know it.

 

Again, you're going back 5-6 years to support your argument. I'm talking right now. What has this franchise produced the last three years? Nothing. And it shows. But that's fine. If you can do it, so can I. A list? I'll humor you. I'm going to assume international free agents and trades count. Because we suck at that former and have been bad at the latter the last 3 years. Red Sox: Ellsbury, Pedroia, Lester, Youk, Buchholz, Papelbon, Bard. Braves: Heyward, McCann, Hanson, Jurrjens, Kimbrel, Venters. And I won't even get into the stable of pitching studs they have waiting in the wings. Now the Phillies are a bit different. Yeah, they've developed Howard, Utley, Rollins and Hamels. But they've had the talent in their system to in like a year and half to add Halladay, Lee and Oswalt. That's f***ing getting it done.

 

Why do you mock the Rockies? They've obliterated Latin America to the tune of Ubaldo, De La Rosa, Chacin. Then they made the spectacular trade to acquire a true 5-tool stud that is Carlos Gonzalez. They've got studs on the way and they're competitive every year without near the payroll as us. And don't pull the NL west crap. The AL central has sucked as well save the Twins. Tampa? Are you serious. Ben Zobrist, Matt Joyce, Matt Garza, Carlos Pena, Wade Davis, Hellickson,. They lost like 50 players last year and they're still holding their own in that monster of a division. And let's not get started on what's in their minors. Texas? Oh I don't know. How about Kinsler, Cruz, Holland. Two amazing trades, the Tex trade and the Hamilton trade. And they had enough to land an ace to lead them to the World series last year. And again, just because they had all those successes don't mean you just stop. They've still got guys to go to. We have NOTHING. And I get so sick of the requisite "they sucked for all those years. they had first round picks every year." crap. If you do your homework, you'll see a lot of the core guys on those teams, past or present, were not first round picks (save for Tampa. But they've made great move after great move to supplement those first round picks). The MLB draft is 50 rounds. Talent all up and down the draft. Talent falls all the time due to signability issues. The talent has been there. And we've failed miserably.

 

As for our future, I continue to believe we can succeed with this core. There is too much talent here for it to just dissolve like a fart in the wind with no explanation whatsoever. And when we do indeed decide to go young again, and at some point we will, I am confident that some of the assets we have will net us a good start towards rebuilding a talented young nucleus. If we pair that with a development strategy that can exist with the luxury of a poor big league club (that the fans know is a rebuilding organization), I am fully confident that we can be back. We did it in the late 80's/early 90's and we've managed to compete virtually EVERY year since then. We have not always gotten the results we strived for but we have been competitve for a 20 year span. Not many other organizations in all of professional sports can boast a winning percentage like we have over that span of years. Nonetheless, we may have finally exhausted our resources and this model may have run it's course. But when that time comes, I feel we have some assets that will give us a lot bigger head start than a lot of you guys do.

 

You believe in vain. Or you're just naive. This roster for the money being allocated is horses***. Yeah, some guys are horribly underachieving. But to be at the mercy of them turning it around is not a good thing (think Mets). Especially guys like Peavy, who is just about as risk for injury as Mark Prior was, and Rios, the ultimate underachiever. And both contracts are virtually untradeable. I agree with you as far as the late 80's/early 90's go. But that was a long time ago and is not going to happen again with KW and this crap staff in charge.

Edited May 30, 2011 by Jordan4life

[iamshack]

Again, you're going back 5-6 years to support your argument. I'm talking right now. What has this franchise produced the last three years? Nothing. And it shows. A list? I'll humor you. I'm going to assume international free agents and trades count. Because we suck at that former and have been bad at the latter the last 3 years. Red Sox: Ellsbury, Pedroia, Lester, Youk, Buchholz, Papelbon, Bard. Braves: Heyward, McCann, Hanson, Jurrjens, Kimbrel, Venters. And I won't even get into the stable of pitching studs they have waiting in the wings. Now the Phillies are a bit different. Yeah, they've developed Howard, Utley, Rollins and Hamels. But they've had the talent in their system to in like a year and half to add Halladay, Lee and Oswalt. That's f***ing getting it done.

 

Why do you mock the Rockies? They've obliterated Latin America to the tune of Ubaldo, De La Rosa, Chacin. Then they made the spectacular trade to acquire a true 5-tool stud that is Carlos Gonzalez. They've got studs on the way and they're competitive every year without near the payroll as us. And don't pull the NL west crap. The AL central has sucked as well save the Twins. Tampa? Are you serious. Ben Zobrist, Matt Joyce, Matt Garza, Carlos Pena, Wade Davis, Hellickson,. They lost like 50 players last year and they're still holding their own in that monster of a division. And let's not get started on what's in their minors. Texas? Oh I don't know. How about Kinsler, Cruz, Holland. Two amazing trades, the Tex trade and the Hamilton trade. And they had enough to land an ace to lead them to the World series last year. And again, just because they had all those successes don't mean you just stop. They've still got guys to go to. We have NOTHING. And I get so sick of the requisite "they sucked for all those years. they had first round picks every year." crap. If you do your homework, you'll see a lot of the core guys on those teams, past or present, were not first round picks. The MLB draft is 50 rounds. Talent all up and down the draft. Talent falls all the time due to signability issues. The talent has been there. And we've failed miserably.

 

 

 

You believe in vain. Or you're just naive. This roster for the money being allocated is horses***. Yeah, some guys are horribly underachieving. But to be at the mercy of them turning it around is not a good thing (think Mets). Especially guys like Peavy, who is just about as risk for injury as Mark Prior was, and Rios, the ultimate underachiever. And both contracts are virtually untradeable. I agree with you as far as the late 80's/early 90's go. But that was a long time ago and is not going to happen again with KW and this crap staff in charge.

 

First of all, settle down. Second of all, go call your best buddy naive. I am not naive.

 

I gave credit to the Red Sox, Braves and Phillies. And I don't believe I was mocking anyone. I was merely pointing out that you love everyone else's players but not ours. Matt Joyce? Why does Matt Joyce get a pass but Phil Humber does not? Why is there a double standard with White Sox players? Maybe because you see them all the time?

 

None of those lists are really blowing away the list Kenny can put on his resume. He's built 3/5 of a rotation from nothing. We can only add so many players to the roster, J4L. If we still have these guys under team control and they are above average major league starters we can't very well fit more people on the MLB roster at any given time.

 

Let's face it, outside of the Phillies/Red Sox/Braves, you can't really name any team outside of the Yankees who has had more sustained success than the White Sox over KW's tenure. There have only been 9 organizations that have won a World Series title since KW took over. His organization is amongst them. For all your Dodgers/Angels/Twins/Rangers/Rockies/Braves/Rays talk, not one of those franchises has won anything more than the White Sox have.

 

You love young players. Face it. You'd rather watch the Royals with a bunch of "could be's" any day of the week than our club. And that's fine. But you may want to switch allegiances if that is how you truly feel, because it causes you to be completely blind and impartial. Now I may be a homer, but you're the anti-homer.

 

It still doesn't make KW bad at his job. It makes you a fantasy baseball fan though.