maggsmaggs Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Jun 7, 2011 -> 08:28 AM) Wait wait wait. We gotta remember we don't typically draft guys to develop them fully, but to trade them instead. Hopefully this guy slaps up a .330 in WS and Kanny next year with 60 SBs and we ship him off for some ready talent. Can't wait. $5 to Bart Scott. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Lines that you guys are going to love: Walker, who was also an accomplished football player at Judge, is a three-time baseball draftee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggsmaggs Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 7, 2011 -> 08:31 AM) Lines that you guys are going to love: But the Sox told me has a great feel for baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattZakrowski Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 7, 2011 -> 08:59 AM) That is what I don't get. He is already here, in the major leagues, and contributing. How many players drafted can ever say that? I don't care if they are a DH, if they are doing a job in the majors, they were a good pick. I see your point, but you can't have guys like that be the greatest successes in your system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 MLB Draft Day 2 thread is open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 QUOTE (MattZakrowski @ Jun 7, 2011 -> 09:28 AM) I see your point, but you can't have guys like that be the greatest successes in your system. We have two guys in our starting line up that are draft products from recent years in addition to Sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 7, 2011 -> 02:13 PM) Balta, not sure why you're quoting me about the board's response to our first round picks, and then what the Walker pick means about Mitchell. I wasn't terribly upset about Mitchell, as there were a lot of other people a lot more upset. I liked what I saw from him in the College World Series, and had high hopes for him. However, when you draft someone with the same skill set two years after drafting Mitchell (while he's struggling in the minors), then you start to think the organization has little confidence in him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 7, 2011 -> 09:50 AM) Balta, not sure why you're quoting me about the board's response to our first round picks, and then what the Walker pick means about Mitchell. I wasn't terribly upset about Mitchell, as there were a lot of other people a lot more upset. I liked what I saw from him in the College World Series, and had high hopes for him. However, when you draft someone with the same skill set two years after drafting Mitchell (while he's struggling in the minors), then you start to think the organization has little confidence in him. Or is it more confidence than you would think? Since the Sox already drafted a similar player and that player struggled, they are showing confidence that these types of guys can rebound from slumps/injuries and still be effective players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 7, 2011 -> 09:50 AM) Balta, not sure why you're quoting me about the board's response to our first round picks, and then what the Walker pick means about Mitchell. I wasn't terribly upset about Mitchell, as there were a lot of other people a lot more upset. I liked what I saw from him in the College World Series, and had high hopes for him. However, when you draft someone with the same skill set two years after drafting Mitchell (while he's struggling in the minors), then you start to think the organization has little confidence in him. He had a pretty devastating fluke injury. I'm sure that the team isn't going to hold his start against him and draft his replacement because of that. Honestly I am better this is a combination of liking a guys skillset and signablility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 7, 2011 -> 11:39 AM) He had a pretty devastating fluke injury. I'm sure that the team isn't going to hold his start against him and draft his replacement because of that. However, it's ok to hold that fluke injury against the team when evaluating their draft performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 7, 2011 -> 12:01 PM) However, it's ok to hold that fluke injury against the team when evaluating their draft performance. I won't, but many will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 7, 2011 -> 08:15 AM) If you draft a guy 13 and he turns out to be a good reliever, you're content with that. Most guys who are drafted after #10 never give you 1 WAR. But if you're drafting a guy at 13 who can only turn into a reliever, that's the bad strategy. Chris Sale at least still could be starting if the org chose to use him that way. And that's what I had said. I said UNTIL he becomes a starter, like, until the Sox actually decide to use him correctly, then he is not a good pick at #13, because all he has ever been so far has been a reliever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Jun 7, 2011 -> 01:52 PM) And that's what I had said. I said UNTIL he becomes a starter, like, until the Sox actually decide to use him correctly, then he is not a good pick at #13, because all he has ever been so far has been a reliever. And I'm disagreeing with this point. If a guy has the potential to be a a starter but winds up being most useful to the franchise in a bullpen role, that's fine for a #13 pick. That's the franchise deciding that the best way to maximize his value to them is in a bullpen role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 7, 2011 -> 12:57 PM) And I'm disagreeing with this point. If a guy has the potential to be a a starter but winds up being most useful to the franchise in a bullpen role, that's fine for a #13 pick. That's the franchise deciding that the best way to maximize his value to them is in a bullpen role. Look no further than the contracts handed out to even decent reliever, such as Jesse Crain. If you can get that in the draft, for literally 10% of the price, you have won. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Fathom, you don't draft guys based upon what you have in the system that much, you draft who you think is best. This guy clearly has some tools. Given this was our first pick though, I wanted the Sox to be bold and agressive. Sounds like almost everyone on there boards was gone and this was the next guy on there list or at least, this was the only position player even close to grading out at 47 on there list where as they still have a lot of pitchers grading out in the 2nd to 3rd rounds and given how deep of a pitching draft this is, the Sox felt that by taking Walker here and with what they project they can do with there next couple of picks that this overdraft was the best strategy. I like his upside and talent and i don't buy into this saying anything about Mitchell. The key to me is will the Sox organization start developing guys or not. In the next year or two we'll have a better idea since the organization has now had a few years under Buddy Bell and he supposedly put in some pretty major changes to the overall player development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatnom Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 7, 2011 -> 12:58 PM) Look no further than the contracts handed out to even decent reliever, such as Jesse Crain. If you can get that in the draft, for literally 10% of the price, you have won. So how much is John Danks looking for in free agency again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 7, 2011 -> 12:57 PM) And I'm disagreeing with this point. If a guy has the potential to be a a starter but winds up being most useful to the franchise in a bullpen role, that's fine for a #13 pick. That's the franchise deciding that the best way to maximize his value to them is in a bullpen role. Nevermind, we are clearly missing eachothers points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Jun 7, 2011 -> 02:09 PM) Nevermind, we are clearly missing eachothers points. No, I get yours, you're telling me that a guy who is drafted at #13 who becomes a major league reliever is a failure of a draft pick. I'm disagreeing with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 7, 2011 -> 01:11 PM) No, I get yours, you're telling me that a guy who is drafted at #13 who becomes a major league reliever is a failure of a draft pick. I'm disagreeing with that. No, I'm not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Jun 7, 2011 -> 02:12 PM) No, I'm not. UNTIL he becomes a starter, like, until the Sox actually decide to use him correctly, then he is not a good pick at #13, because all he has ever been so far has been a reliever. "Until he becomes a starter" he's not a good pick. The point I'm trying to make is that there's a choice here, and it can be a good pick for the team even if he never starts because the team itself chose to put him in the reliever role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 7, 2011 -> 11:11 AM) No, I get yours, you're telling me that a guy who is drafted at #13 who becomes a major league reliever is a failure of a draft pick. I'm disagreeing with that. Drew Storen looks pretty good. Chad Cordero worked out for a while. Drafting relievers isn't always a bad thing, especially if you have a need. I prefer draft starters but in Sale's case, no one knows whether he is a starter or not, we really haven't done much develping of him at this point and the majority of that little development has been at the major league level (most likely to the detriment of his long term success). But even if Sale stays at this level in his career, he wouldn't end up being a bust. Quite frankly if you get a couple above average years out of your guy at 13, than the pick was relatively successful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 7, 2011 -> 01:19 PM) "Until he becomes a starter" he's not a good pick. The point I'm trying to make is that there's a choice here, and it can be a good pick for the team even if he never starts because the team itself chose to put him in the reliever role. Ok, then agree to disagree, because I think never giving him a shot to start is completely asinine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 7, 2011 -> 01:19 PM) "Until he becomes a starter" he's not a good pick. The point I'm trying to make is that there's a choice here, and it can be a good pick for the team even if he never starts because the team itself chose to put him in the reliever role. Right the point is any pick regardless of spot if he ends up on the major league team and is a good player regardless starting or relieving that is a successful pick. Even if it isn't what most visioned Sale as being. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Scott Snodgrass LHP Stanford 6'5" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 7, 2011 -> 02:25 PM) Scott Snodgrass LHP Stanford 6'5" Wrong thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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