If you were ordered by JR to cut payroll by $25 million and remai

[caulfield12]

 

 

With Peavy seemingly on the "forget about counting on him for the rest of his contract" list now...is there any move left for KW to shake up this team?

 

He really can't trade a starter at this point, there's nobody behind Santos who looks like they could possibly close (Sale is the closest, and we saw how well he did yesterday...just terribly inconsistent this season)...and Konerko/Quentin/Ramirez are essentially the only everyday players (along with Beckham) that any sane GM for another team would want to take on unless we send 75% of their contract dollars along with them, what would you do?

 

There's obviously no back-up for Ramirez, unless you count Escobar...and that would be a stretch to forecast him as an everyday player. I guess Lillibridge would be the best candidate there, as you wouldn't dream of moving Gordon yet again.

 

In some ways, trading Konerko/Quentin at their highest value (especially Quentin) would be borderline insane (from a fan standpoint but also competitiveness standpoint), and yet with Viciedo backing up both, that's the only area we have any depth in our organization...

 

You just start to wonder how much more apathetic our fanbase has to become before some kind of move is made. Still can't believe that we barely drew 20,000 on a Friday night when we've been playing some of our "best" ball of the season and are actually legitimately close to being back in the division race, even though we've now failed miserably in our 3 opportunities to get back to 2 games under .500 in heart-rending fashion.

[knightni]

None of those things will separately cut 25 mil.

 

You'd have to bundle cheaper guys like Floyd and Danks with guys like Jackson and Rios to get close.

[Balta1701]

If you have to cut salary this year, the guys you have to move are Konerko and Danks, because people will take most/all of their salary off your hands with the way they're performing. AJ's hitting .330 with an .819 OPS for the last month, so he MIGHT be moveable.

 

It makes no sense to move guys like Floyd or Quentin who are overplaying their contracts right now and who aren't terribly expensive.

 

If you're desperate to move funds though, then you have to think about moving Alexei next. He's playing up to his contract still, although he's been down the last week or two, a smart GM would jump at him.

[greg775]

With Peavy seemingly on the "forget about counting on him for the rest of his contract" list now...is there any move left for KW to shake up this team?

 

He really can't trade a starter at this point, there's nobody behind Santos who looks like they could possibly close (Sale is the closest, and we saw how well he did yesterday...just terribly inconsistent this season)...and Konerko/Quentin/Ramirez are essentially the only everyday players (along with Beckham) that any sane GM for another team would want to take on unless we send 75% of their contract dollars along with them, what would you do?

 

There's obviously no back-up for Ramirez, unless you count Escobar...and that would be a stretch to forecast him as an everyday player. I guess Lillibridge would be the best candidate there, as you wouldn't dream of moving Gordon yet again.

 

In some ways, trading Konerko/Quentin at their highest value (especially Quentin) would be borderline insane (from a fan standpoint but also competitiveness standpoint), and yet with Viciedo backing up both, that's the only area we have any depth in our organization...

 

You just start to wonder how much more apathetic our fanbase has to become before some kind of move is made. Still can't believe that we barely drew 20,000 on a Friday night when we've been playing some of our "best" ball of the season and are actually legitimately close to being back in the division race, even though we've now failed miserably in our 3 opportunities to get back to 2 games under .500 in heart-rending fashion.

 

Nice post.

It's hard to blame 20 more fans for not wanting to see this dysfunctional team.

I mean it is really difficult to blow a game with a two run lead in the ninth and two outs and nobody on base. The fans were standing and applauding for the final out that came way too late.

 

I'd start trading guys as soon as I could get a "good deal."

First up is Juan.

Next up is Rios.

Next up Dunn.

Next AJ.

Next Edwin.

Next up Danks.

 

I realize the amount of money we'd have to pay for anybody to take these guys makes it difficult to trade them, and I realize nobody probably wants Juan or AJ but IF you could get a deal, start dealing.

I didn't even list Peavy, but obviously if anybody was dumb enough to take him, he's right at the top as well. I figured nobody to be that dumb.

Edited June 11, 2011 by greg775

[caulfield12]

None of those things will separately cut 25 mil.

 

You'd have to bundle cheaper guys like Floyd and Danks with guys like Jackson and Rios to get close.

 

 

Yeah, probably right.

 

You'd have to make a blockbuster move like Danks and Quentin or Ramirez and then you force them to take Rios or Dunn as the 3rd part of the puzzle.

 

Of course, you'd like to hope JR would rather have the young talent back for the combination of Danks/Quentin/Ramirez than simply the monetary savings of dumping Rios or Dunn, but we haven't always operated in that fashion.

 

Meanwhile, we're about to be just 5 games back, whether we deserve it or not. The Indians are inevitably pulling the Tigers and now the Sox back into the race.

[Balta1701]

You'd have to make a blockbuster move like Danks and Quentin or Ramirez and then you force them to take Rios or Dunn as the 3rd part of the puzzle.

Does this type of deal ever happen? Where you give up a high salaried guy you don't want and an actual talent to get very little back?

 

What would really happen if the Sox sell is that they'll try to get maximum value fromm the guys they can trade, Konerko, Q, Ramirez, Danks, whoever...and they'll hold guys like Rios, Peavy, maybe Teahen, etc., and see if there is any way they can perform well enough to either start earning their salaries or to rebuild trade value for next season.

[caulfield12]

Nice post.

It's hard to blame 20 more fans for not wanting to see this dysfunctional team.

I mean it is really difficult to blow a game with a two run lead in the ninth and two outs and nobody on base. The fans were standing and applauding for the final out that came way too late.

 

I'd start trading guys as soon as I could get a "good deal."

First up is Juan.

Next up is Rios.

Next up Dunn.

Next AJ.

Next Edwin.

Next up Danks.

 

I realize the amount of money we'd have to pay for anybody to take these guys makes it difficult to trade them, and I realize nobody probably wants Juan or AJ but IF you could get a deal, start dealing.

I didn't even list Peavy, but obviously if anybody was dumb enough to take him, he's right at the top as well. I figured nobody to be that dumb.

 

And that's why I made a list of the players I perceived to have the most value to other teams, although I didn't include Beckham.

 

Everyone in the world knows we'd like to dump Rios, Dunn and Teahen. Doing that now wouldn't benefit our ballclub much.

 

Even trading AJ, and recalling Flowers, you end up probably damaging your starting pitching results as a consequence...if KW and Ozzie felt Flowers was close to ready defensively, they wouldn't have given AJ a two year deal with it backloaded like that.

 

Holding onto Danks gives you the chance to compete again next year, but then you hold on too long and you only have a first round draft pick that may contribute by 2014 or 2015...obviously trading Jackson is only going to net you a marginal prospect, unless your scouts just ace it with the right hidden pitching talent in A ball.

 

 

[caulfield12]

Does this type of deal ever happen? Where you give up a high salaried guy you don't want and an actual talent to get very little back?

 

What would really happen if the Sox sell is that they'll try to get maximum value fromm the guys they can trade, Konerko, Q, Ramirez, Danks, whoever...and they'll hold guys like Rios, Peavy, maybe Teahen, etc., and see if there is any way they can perform well enough to either start earning their salaries or to rebuild trade value for next season.

 

 

I can't recall off the top of my head.

 

Usually it's a bad contract for bad contract deal, like the Silva/Bradley example.

 

It all depends on what KW and Ozzie are feeling...if they really did believe that Rios or Dunn would never contribute at close to their prior levels, it's the only possible justification for making that kind of insane move that makes you look like a complete jackass as the GM. (And since he's still holding onto Tony Pena for dear life, not going to happen).

 

Don't even think it's in KW's DNA to do something so outrageous. You'd like to think he learned his lesson with the 2nd Swisher trade.

 

Sometimes you almost wonder if it's more important for both our GM and manager to be proven right than to win games, but it's hard for even their biggest detractors to believe they're really deliberately not doing what is the best thing to put the team in the maximized position to win in favor of their own ego gratification.

[Balta1701]

It all depends on what KW and Ozzie are feeling...if they really did believe that Rios or Dunn would never contribute at close to their prior levels, it's the only possible justification for making that kind of insane move that makes you look like a complete jackass as the GM. (And since he's still holding onto Tony Pena for dear life, not going to happen).

And they're not giving up on Rios or Dunn.

 

Especially now that Rios has overhauled his hand position and is suddenly hitting tons of balls up the middle.

[caulfield12]

Which leaves the only other option Jake Peavy pitching like CY YOUNG for 4-5 weeks before the trade deadline...

 

In this case, does anyone believe KW would actually trade him after how much they've had to defend that move for almost 3 seasons now?

 

And probably if he was pitching that well, we'd be so close to DET and/or CLE he'd never be traded anyway.

[Balta1701]

Which leaves the only other option Jake Peavy pitching like CY YOUNG for 4-5 weeks before the trade deadline...

 

In this case, does anyone believe KW would actually trade him after how much they've had to defend that move for almost 3 seasons now?

 

And probably if he was pitching that well, we'd be so close to DET and/or CLE he'd never be traded anyway.

There's no good reason to trade Jake Peavy for salary reasons if...as we've heard repeatedly, there is an insurance policy on Peavy's contract that has already met its deductible. It's possible that the team has paid Peavy only a tiny, tiny fraction of his contract for the last full year, and it's also possible that we're not paying him right now.

[caulfield12]

There's no good reason to trade Jake Peavy for salary reasons if...as we've heard repeatedly, there is an insurance policy on Peavy's contract that has already met its deductible. It's possible that the team has paid Peavy only a tiny, tiny fraction of his contract for the last full year, and it's also possible that we're not paying him right now.

 

 

Humber, Santos taking the closer's role and the argued Peavy insurance deal are probably the 3 single biggest reasons we haven't heard a peep out of JR about cutting salary/payroll despite the tepid attendance numbers.

[Jake]

Normally, those insurance policies only come into effect when they player doesn't play at all. Sometimes the player has to never play again.

[caulfield12]

Normally, those insurance policies only come into effect when they player doesn't play at all. Sometimes the player has to never play again.

 

 

Nobody KNOWS for sure, unless they work for the White Sox.

 

Maybe somebody should call into Ranger's post-game show sometime and ask him directly and see if he'll give any type of answer or just avoid it.

 

The only thing I do remember precisely is that David Wells in 2001, when he missed over half the season that year....we received between $4-4.5 in compensation from that specific insurance package, I think it was Lloyd's of London which had issued the policy.

 

For example, Albert Belle's contract. I would be curious what happened with that in terms of any insurance.

[Balta1701]

Normally, those insurance policies only come into effect when they player doesn't play at all. Sometimes the player has to never play again.

Even the most mainstream of mainstream sources have brought it up. Here's the direct quote from Heyman.

One piece of good news about Jake Peavy, who has yet to pitch this season: The White Sox have insurance on Peavy, according to sources. One source suggested the team has already met its deductible, meaning it will begin receiving payments on Peavy if it hasn't already. White Sox GM Ken Williams recently defended the trade that brought Peavy to Chicago from San Diego two years ago, saying a No. 1 pitcher is imperative.

 

The fact is, the policy itself was probably more expensive when the Padres took it out if it covered part-season losses, but its out there in press that the Sox are getting money back. Whatever the rules are, they've gotten some pay back, and it's entirely possible they're getting paid for any time he hits the DL right now. If nothing else, I've got Heyman there earlier this year saying that the Sox were getting paid for the first month of the season that Peavy missed.

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

Maybe somebody should call into Ranger's post-game show sometime and ask him directly and see if he'll give any type of answer or just avoid it.

 

 

I seem to remember him saying that he doesn't know the specifics.

[Dick Allen]

And they're not giving up on Rios or Dunn.

 

Especially now that Rios has overhauled his hand position and is suddenly hitting tons of balls up the middle.

If someone would take the contract, they would dump Rios in a heartbeat.

[greg775]

And they're not giving up on Rios or Dunn.

 

Especially now that Rios has overhauled his hand position and is suddenly hitting tons of balls up the middle.

 

What's this about Rios' hand position?

Haven't heard a word about the change. Explain please.

 

I still wish he'd go away but if he starts hitting that would really really help the team reach .500.

[Balta1701]

What's this about Rios' hand position?

Haven't heard a word about the change. Explain please.

 

I still wish he'd go away but if he starts hitting that would really really help the team reach .500.

Watch him. It couldn't be more obvious. He had those couple games off and has come out of it with his hands starting at the numbers instead of starting at the hips.

 

He's had what, 4 hits, most of them right up the middle, since bringing his hands up.

[greg775]

Watch him. It couldn't be more obvious. He had those couple games off and has come out of it with his hands starting at the numbers instead of starting at the hips.

 

He's had what, 4 hits, most of them right up the middle, since bringing his hands up.

 

And two more hits tonight. He has to feel good about himself after the little incident in which he freaked out in the dugout for sucking.

Hope he continues to do well and make adjustments when he sucks.

[LittleHurt05]

Why would JR order you to cut the payroll of a team that will win the division? Are we really making these threads now?

[Jordan4life_2007]

Why would JR order you to cut the payroll of a team that will win the division? Are we really making these threads now?

 

He did say "if." And I like your confidence.

[Soxfest]

Jackson traded off would be #1 step IMO.

[kapzk]

Watch him. It couldn't be more obvious. He had those couple games off and has come out of it with his hands starting at the numbers instead of starting at the hips.

 

He's had what, 4 hits, most of them right up the middle, since bringing his hands up.

 

Rios also is no longer batting with the black bat, never seen him do that even in his years in Toronto. He certainly is trying every possible option to get out of the funk.

[caulfield12]

Watch Rios' left shoulder as well.

 

He has it tucked in more, it's at a closed angle compared to the past.

 

That and the hand positioning are the two noticeable changes in his mechanics over the past 7-10 days.