lostfan Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jun 20, 2011 -> 04:37 PM) Only thing I agree with SS2K5 about when it comes to LeBron is that he could have a little more to offer from the post. Especially at his size. But even with that, I can't classify him as an underachiever. If Lebron is an underachiever, every player in the NBA is an underachiever. It just looks really... strange seeing LeBron go towards the basket, then see the lane sealed off so he stops back and pops off a jumper. What the f***? He's like 6'8" 260 lbs, bigger and faster than most of the guys defending him, why doesn't he post up? I don't really understand. If he did that then he would pretty much be unstoppable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share Posted June 20, 2011 QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Jun 20, 2011 -> 04:25 PM) Your basic argument seems to be that because he's on track to be "only" one of the 10-20 players of all time instead of #1 makes him a massive underachiever. That is patently ridiculous and I shall not be commenting on this line of discussion anymore. Also, Zach Randolph isn't really THAT big an underachiever. He's been putting up 20-10 for years even though he can't jump. Outside of trying a little more often on defense, there's really not all that much more you can expect him to do. He was never going to be a Tim Ducan-caliber defender, which along with a bad attitude have been his main issues. The basic argument isn't where he is at, it is where he should be at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share Posted June 20, 2011 QUOTE (lostfan @ Jun 20, 2011 -> 06:34 PM) It just looks really... strange seeing LeBron go towards the basket, then see the lane sealed off so he stops back and pops off a jumper. What the f***? He's like 6'8" 260 lbs, bigger and faster than most of the guys defending him, why doesn't he post up? I don't really understand. If he did that then he would pretty much be unstoppable. And if we want go back to MJ, thinking back to when he broke into the league, all he had was his driving ability. Later on he added the ability to shoot from the outside, the ability to post up, and also that ridiculous fadeaway. He also was no where near the defender he ended up being when he broke into the league Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Where he should be at? Hes not even 30, has multiple MVP's and regardless of how underachieving he is, I doubt many people have him outside of the top 10 current players. Its easy to see his physical ability, but what about where he is mentally? The guy can shoot a thousand jump shots, practice his post game all night long, but it wont change who he is. Some people live for the pressure, when the chips are down, when its the moment, they take it to the next level. Some people are born with it, I just dont think Lebron has it at the moment. But that doesnt mean he cant get there, its just a terrible scenario with Wade, because at the end of the day, one of them has to be the man. People are just way to hard on Lebron, just because you have all the physical gifts in the world doesnt mean you have the mental toughness to put it together. The guy is still young, he just needs someone to bring it out of him, it may never happen, but people just expect to much from the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFanForever Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 The whole comparing him to Jordan at the same age is kind of pointless. Jordan went to college for what? 4 years? LeBron broke into the league at the age of 18. He has 4 more years of NBA playtime under his belt at age 26 than MJ did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Which you can interpret as a good thing or bad thing, besides for Kobe almost all of the legendary NBA players played at the college level. A great majority of them having played in Championships in the NCAA. Maybe Lebron is a better player today if he was coached by a Dean Smith, its not always for the best to be rushed into everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 20, 2011 -> 11:12 PM) Which you can interpret as a good thing or bad thing, besides for Kobe almost all of the legendary NBA players played at the college level. A great majority of them having played in Championships in the NCAA. Maybe Lebron is a better player today if he was coached by a Dean Smith, its not always for the best to be rushed into everything. KG and Moses Malone are both top-30 type players that skipped college too, plus arguably Dirk. Kemp and T-Mac were also pretty good, although they could have been better. Maybe if he stayed 2 or 3 years you could make that case, plus he might have been a little more likely to develop a solid jumper given his teams would be zoned to death (he usually just hits enough to keep people honest, but was very good from mid-range this year). I don't think it's terribly likely that he'd have the post game everyone gripes about though. There are way too many zones and double-teams in college and too many great athletes that reach the NBA with no moves. The really good post players I can think of (guys like Sullinger and Love) had very good moves before they even hit campus. Plus if he's one and done, I doubt it really helps any, especially if he doesn't go somewhere that has a coach that would help him develop. Edited June 21, 2011 by ZoomSlowik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Jun 20, 2011 -> 11:43 PM) KG and Moses Malone are both top-30 type players that skipped college too, plus arguably Dirk. Kemp and T-Mac were also pretty good, although they could have been better. Maybe if he stayed 2 or 3 years you could make that case, plus he might have been a little more likely to develop a solid jumper given his teams would be zoned to death (he usually just hits enough to keep people honest, but was very good from mid-range this year). I don't think it's terribly likely that he'd have the post game everyone gripes about though. There are way too many zones and double-teams in college and too many great athletes that reach the NBA with no moves. The really good post players I can think of (guys like Sullinger and Love) had very good moves before they even hit campus. Plus if he's one and done, I doubt it really helps any, especially if he doesn't go somewhere that has a coach that would help him develop. Lebron also has/had the physical tools that no one else has ever had. He's probably have been a power-point-forward in college surrounded by 6'0 combo guards and unathletic white guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Anybody hear about a pending trade of AI2 going to the Clippers? I heard it on the radio. Can't find anything online. I don't know what the Clippers would be giving up. But it obviously won't be Griffin or Gordon. I'm sure Jordan wouldn't be involved. Add AI2 to those three and you have some freakish athleticism and overall skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalls2598 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jun 21, 2011 -> 07:05 AM) Anybody hear about a pending trade of AI2 going to the Clippers? I heard it on the radio. Can't find anything online. I don't know what the Clippers would be giving up. But it obviously won't be Griffin or Gordon. I'm sure Jordan wouldn't be involved. Add AI2 to those three and you have some freakish athleticism and overall skill. from Iguodala's Rotoworld page yesterday: "Alex Kennedy of Hoopsworld writes that a deal appears inevitable at this point, and the Clippers (offering Chris Kaman) may be the current front-runner. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 QUOTE (smalls2598 @ Jun 21, 2011 -> 07:26 AM) from Iguodala's Rotoworld page yesterday: "Alex Kennedy of Hoopsworld writes that a deal appears inevitable at this point, and the Clippers (offering Chris Kaman) may be the current front-runner. " Thanks, dude. There goes one of Quinarvy's dreams. I would've loved to somehow net AI2. He's like the Franklin Gutierrez of the NBA. So gifted defensively that anything he contributes offensively is a bonus. That would've been our LeBron 'stopper.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 21, 2011 Author Share Posted June 21, 2011 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 20, 2011 -> 09:15 PM) Where he should be at? Hes not even 30, has multiple MVP's and regardless of how underachieving he is, I doubt many people have him outside of the top 10 current players. Its easy to see his physical ability, but what about where he is mentally? The guy can shoot a thousand jump shots, practice his post game all night long, but it wont change who he is. Some people live for the pressure, when the chips are down, when its the moment, they take it to the next level. Some people are born with it, I just dont think Lebron has it at the moment. But that doesnt mean he cant get there, its just a terrible scenario with Wade, because at the end of the day, one of them has to be the man. People are just way to hard on Lebron, just because you have all the physical gifts in the world doesnt mean you have the mental toughness to put it together. The guy is still young, he just needs someone to bring it out of him, it may never happen, but people just expect to much from the guy. It makes sense to me that he isn't tough enough mentally, which is why he isn't achieving his full potential on the floor. This is a kid who has always been the best, and has always been told so. It takes some adjustments mentally to realize that you need to grow up and work harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 21, 2011 Author Share Posted June 21, 2011 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 20, 2011 -> 11:12 PM) Which you can interpret as a good thing or bad thing, besides for Kobe almost all of the legendary NBA players played at the college level. A great majority of them having played in Championships in the NCAA. Maybe Lebron is a better player today if he was coached by a Dean Smith, its not always for the best to be rushed into everything. And I don't doubt this at all. A year or two with some real coaching, and some discipline would have done him wonders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 21, 2011 -> 09:09 AM) It makes sense to me that he isn't tough enough mentally, which is why he isn't achieving his full potential on the floor. This is a kid who has always been the best, and has always been told so. It takes some adjustments mentally to realize that you need to grow up and work harder. The problem is...I think he thinks he works hard enough. Remember the 3 pages or so of people defending how insane his workout/yoga routine was we had in last year's thread when this same topic came up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 21, 2011 -> 09:10 AM) And I don't doubt this at all. A year or two with some real coaching, and some discipline would have done him wonders. just remember...that is exactly what the Bulls were offering him last offseason, and he turned it down flat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 21, 2011 Author Share Posted June 21, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 21, 2011 -> 08:18 AM) The problem is...I think he thinks he works hard enough. Remember the 3 pages or so of people defending how insane his workout/yoga routine was we had in last year's thread when this same topic came up? He really is an idiot if thinks Yoga is more important than a post up game, and that pretty much proves the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palehosefan Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 21, 2011 -> 08:28 AM) He really is an idiot if thinks Yoga is more important than a post up game, and that pretty much proves the point. LeBron's inability to even back-down JJ Barea is forever burned in to my mind. Everything with LeBron is in his mindset. He has all the physical tools and work ethic to be the greatest, but he just doesn't have the killer instinct. Jordan, Kobe, and even Paul Pierce would be licking their chops having a guy like Barea on your hip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 21, 2011 Author Share Posted June 21, 2011 http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-w...ba_draft_062011 The Atlanta Hawks have started to gauge trade interest on forward Josh Smith(notes), and Smith isn’t averse to ending his seven-year stay with his hometown team, league sources told Yahoo! Sports on Monday. Smith hasn’t requested a trade, but has privately told league friends that the Boston Celtics, New Jersey Nets, Houston Rockets and Orlando Magic are his preferred destinations should the Hawks decide to move him. “The relationship has run its course,” said a league source with knowledge of the dynamic. There’s been growing acrimony between Smith and the organization, sources said, largely because of the feeling that Smith has been too convenient of a scapegoat. Smith had one of his most complete seasons for the Hawks, averaging 16.5 points, 8.5 rebounds and 3.3 assists. More From Adrian Wojnarowski Perseverance pays off for Nowitzki, Mavs Jun 13, 2011 LeBron could cough up Finals Jun 11, 2011 Josh Smith has spent all seven of his NBA seasons playing for the Hawks. (Getty Images) Payroll is an issue for the Hawks, too, and Smith’s contract – which has two years and $25.6 million remaining – is an attractive target for management to unload, if, for no other reason, than the five years, $110 million left on Joe Johnson’s(notes) deal is far more difficult to move. The Hawks have looked to identify veteran players near the end of their contracts, sources said, but have had no serious discussions on trading Smith. “They’re looking for a change,” one Eastern Conference executive said. “They would die to be rid of Joe Johnson’s contract or move Smith, but they won’t give [smith] away. They want something in return.” Dwight Howard(notes) has been a proponent of the Magic trying to make a deal for Smith, a childhood friend, but general manager Otis Smith is low on assets. Houston has long been intrigued with Smith, but like Orlando and New Jersey, also probably doesn’t have the right pieces to make a trade. Hawks GM Rick Sund has long coveted Kevin Garnett(notes) and Ray Allen(notes) – two aging Celtics entering the final years of contracts – but Celtics GM Danny Ainge has yet to show an inclination to break up his core for next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Josh Smith is atrocious. Although he was one of the Bulls best players in their series against ATL... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 QUOTE (WHarris1 @ Jun 21, 2011 -> 09:59 AM) Josh Smith is atrocious. Although he was one of the Bulls best players in their series against ATL... He's another guy who ought to be a lot better than he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 21, 2011 -> 09:01 AM) He's another guy who ought to be a lot better than he is. Hell yes. I'm shocked that his name was not mentioned. For a guy with that type of size/athleticism and an awful J, to be hoisting deep shot after deep shot is obscene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jun 21, 2011 -> 07:33 AM) Thanks, dude. There goes one of Quinarvy's dreams. I would've loved to somehow net AI2. He's like the Franklin Gutierrez of the NBA. So gifted defensively that anything he contributes offensively is a bonus. That would've been our LeBron 'stopper.' I doubt the Sixers make that trade. Kaman is horrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 QUOTE (chw42 @ Jun 21, 2011 -> 10:16 AM) I doubt the Sixers make that trade. Kaman is horrible. But his contract is up this year, he's tall, he plays C, and Dalembert is a free agent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 21, 2011 Author Share Posted June 21, 2011 QUOTE (WHarris1 @ Jun 21, 2011 -> 09:03 AM) Hell yes. I'm shocked that his name was not mentioned. For a guy with that type of size/athleticism and an awful J, to be hoisting deep shot after deep shot is obscene Another High School kid with zero discipline in his game. I mentioned this because it seems like the Bulls could be involved in a deal of this style moving draft picks to Orlando in exchange for one of the teams real shooting guards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 21, 2011 -> 08:18 AM) The problem is...I think he thinks he works hard enough. Remember the 3 pages or so of people defending how insane his workout/yoga routine was we had in last year's thread when this same topic came up? Maybe that's it. He busts his ass. He's not a lazy slouch wasting his talents. But he doesn't work on the areas he needs to work on the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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