2011-2012 OFFICIAL NBA LOCKOUT thread

[Soxfest]

Union wants to decertify ............They want to be a Union when they fell like it, work on a deal then they will want to be a Union again afterwords. Be a Union or do not be one. I did not like this in the NFL and now the NBA the Union wants it both ways.

Edited November 14, 2011 by Soxfest

[Balta1701]

He also, while working for the DOJ, beat Microsoft on an anti-trust case, he's on the team of attorneys for Jamie McCourt, and he worked with former solicitor general Olsen on a case which so far has beaten back California's Prop 8.

I just learned that Boies also represented the NFL owners (not the players) during that lockout.

[Quin]

I'd be mad, but laugh for eternity if the owners right now came out and said

 

"We are now disbanding the NBA. Go get your Masters Degrees guys!

Edited November 14, 2011 by Quinarvy

[Balta1701]

Union wants to decertify ............They want to be a Union when they fell like it, work on a deal then they will want to be a Union again afterwords. Be a Union or do not be one. I did not like this in the NFL and now the NBA the Union wants it both ways.

The response to this is pretty simple...there is special right given in labor negotiations to the professional sports organizations, where the owners are protected in a unique way from anti-trust lawsuits. Basically, the players have no way of challenging that protection while they are organized as a union.

 

I'd say it actually sounds worse than it is, it's a set of steps taken because of various exemptions in the law given to the professional sports leagues.

 

Be more mad about the players deciding to cut off any hope of negotiation.

[Balta1701]

I'd be mad, but laugh for eternity if the owners right now came out and said

 

"We are now disbanding the NBA. Go get your Masters Degrees guys!

The players would be absolutely thrilled if that happened, because then the NBA would be giving up its special anti-trust status, which is exactly waht the players have to challenge in court here.

[MexSoxFan#1]

Looking on the bright sidw, if the season gets cancelled, it'll be one more year of prime LBJ without a ring

[Soxfest]

The response to this is pretty simple...there is special right given in labor negotiations to the professional sports organizations, where the owners are protected in a unique way from anti-trust lawsuits. Basically, the players have no way of challenging that protection while they are organized as a union.

 

I'd say it actually sounds worse than it is, it's a set of steps taken because of various exemptions in the law given to the professional sports leagues.

 

Be more mad about the players deciding to cut off any hope of negotiation.

Thanks Balta just seems messed up to me.

[Balta1701]

Thanks Balta just seems messed up to me.

It is totally messed up, but the reason it is messed up has to do with arcane legal quirks.

[Balta1701]

The Players Group's lawyers.

The pair spoke to a small group of reporters just after Hunter and Fisher's press conference.

 

Several weeks ago, as reporters were camped out on the sidewalk outside collective bargaining talks, you happened by on your way to dinner. Did you have any idea, then, that you might be involved?

 

Boies: I went to dinner! I was not talking to them at all at that point. In fact, I didn't even know they were there.

 

To the extent you've been involved in sports in the past, it has been on the league side, correct?

 

Boies: Well, for example, we represented the Yankees against Major League Baseball. So we have represented individual players against the league and leagues against players.

 

You represented the NFL, correct?

 

Boies: We represented the NFL against the players.

 

Can you talk about how different this situation is?

 

Boies: I don't want to get into a lot of detail, but it's obviously a very different situation. It's a situation in which the collective bargaining process has essentially broken down. For their own purposes, the NBA has chosen to issue an ultimatum. It's our way or no way.

 

I think that the players tried very hard to bargain collectively, and this is a situation in which the Players Association has never disclaimed or decertified in its history. Some of you are old enough to remember prior CBA negotiations where a lot of players wanted them to, and they always refused to do that, because they have always believed in the collective bargaining process. Even after the lockout, they continued to collectively bargain.

 

It was only when they concluded that the collective bargaining process was over with, and that there wasn't any purpose in continuing, that they took this action.

 

What are the consequences of that? That's something we're going to go assess. As you can see, I have not been involved in this long enough to have formed a view of what, if anything, is appropriate to do from a legal standpoint. But I do know that, just from a practical standpoint, the players tried very hard to make the collective bargaining system work, and they took this step only after it was absolutely clear that collective bargaining had broken down, not as a result of any action they took.

 

From a timing standpoint, how long can this take?

 

Boies: The owners could decide to open their doors, and hire players, today. They don't need a union for that. They could go off and hire people the way most businesses hire people. They could identify a person, they negotiate a salary, and there's absolutely no reason that couldn't happen right now.

 

This action precludes collective bargaining, but it does not stop negotiating, correct?

 

Boies: You wouldn't have collective negotiations. Now, I think, the individual teams would have to negotiate with individual players. It's back to the free market.

 

This trade association and its lawyers could still meet with the NBA and throw out proposals?

 

Kessler: The class action settlement discussion, just like took place in the NFL, [would happen] without any association's direct involvement. It's the class that would be making any settlement if there was one.

 

Talks could continue in some form.

 

Boies: I don't think talks would continue.

 

If, and I say if -- because first of all, we haven't filed a lawsuit -- a lawsuit were filed, but if a lawsuit were filed, and if there was an interest in settling that lawsuit, then as Jeffrey says, what would happen is the lawyers for the players would meet the lawyers for the owners and we would try to come up with some kind of settlement.

 

That settlement would be something that would open up the league to play. But you would not have a collective bargaining solution.

 

Your first "if" supposes a lawsuit might not be filed?

 

Boies: I'm just saying, we're going to go back, we're going to assess this. Jeffrey probably has got decades more experience in this than I have. And we're going to go back and we're going to talk about what the right approach is. Maybe it's filing a lawsuit. Maybe it's not filing a lawsuit. We've got to figure out what the lawsuit would say if there is going to be a lawsuit. There's a lot that has to be worked out.

 

Since the decertification didn't work for the NFL, how much better is this disclaimer?

 

Boies: Well, remember, in the NFL case, the disclaimer .... although it was ruled valid by the district court, was never really decided by the court of appeals. The point, too, in the NFL case, was whether or not there could be an injunction. As you heard in there, we are not going to seek an injunction. While we're going to go back, and we're going to look at legal options, you heard Billy say that one of the things the players are not going to do is go seek an injunction here.

 

Why not?

 

Boies: Well, my view, and this is one that Jeffrey and I may have a different view on, is that under the Norris-Laguardia Act it's very difficult to get an injunction. That doesn't mean you can't have damages. And in fact, the whole point of the Norris-Laguardia Act was to stop injunctions and force the these kinds of disputes into the damage arena.

 

Even if you could get an injunction -- let's say Jeffrey's wrong and I'm right on this -- it would be, obviously, a drawn-out process. And I think what the players are focusing on right now is what is the fastest way to get this resolved.

 

Kessler: If you look at it from a player's standpoint, collective bargaining has totally failed. So rather than exercise their labor law rights to futility, they've decided to free up all players to exert their antitrust rights to triple damages. And we think -- not we, the players -- think that is the best protection for NBA players going forward.

 

How do you go about deciding who the plaintiffs will be?

 

Kessler: We're not going to talk about any legal strategies or tactics.

 

Is there any indication, knowing how the NBA has been bargaining, that this will bring them back [to a more reasonable bargaining position]?

 

Boies: I have no expectation about that one way or another. I'm involved in this a few hours, OK?

 

I would hope that, in the face of a disclaiming union, where there's no hope of collective bargaining, that the owners would reconsider whether, under these circumstances, it makes sense to continue to boycott. But I have no idea what their strategy is.

[Balta1701]

The HTMl code wont' work, but here's Stern with a 10:00 interview on ESPN.

 

He used the phrase "Guaranteed years of litigation."

[chw42]

I'd be mad, but laugh for eternity if the owners right now came out and said

 

"We are now disbanding the NBA. Go get your Masters Degrees guys!

 

Now that would be funny. The owners don't NEED their franchises. They've made their money elsewhere. The players on the other hand...well...good luck with your day to day jobs.

[chw42]

So here's a question. If all contracts are voided, what does that mean if/when the league comes back? Will teams still hold restrictions on players who were under contract previously?

 

Fantasy draft.

[Quin]

Now that would be funny. The owners don't NEED their franchises. They've made their money elsewhere. The players on the other hand...well...good luck with your day to day jobs.

 

Seriously, I might love that.

 

Then just reform it once the players go broke and cave. The Union can do that, so why not the league.

 

[StrangeSox]

Seriously, I might love that.

 

Then just reform it once the players go broke and cave. The Union can do that, so why not the league.

 

complete destruction of their fanbases?

[Quin]

complete destruction of their fanbases?

 

It'll happen anyway when two nba seasons are gone.

[Quin]

Also, Kevin Martin is pissed about no vote for everyone.

 

He has gained my respect this lockout.

[bmags]

Now that would be funny. The owners don't NEED their franchises. They've made their money elsewhere. The players on the other hand...well...good luck with your day to day jobs.

 

yes, the owners could easily swallower their 500 million dollar investments going bunk. The Maloofs especially could swallow that.

[Balta1701]

yes, the owners could easily swallower their 500 million dollar investments going bunk. The Maloofs especially could swallow that.

I seriously doubt the Maloofs have brought in positive revenue from the kings in a while. I'd bet they've had to put money into te team the last few years, so this is more a bill going away, at least in the short term.

[southsider2k5]

I seriously doubt the Maloofs have brought in positive revenue from the kings in a while. I'd bet they've had to put money into te team the last few years, so this is more a bill going away, at least in the short term.

 

There are still fixed costs for any franchise even when teams aren't operating.

[Balta1701]

There are still fixed costs for any franchise even when teams aren't operating.

If they were really worried about that, the owners would have had more motivation to cave.

[bmags]

I seriously doubt the Maloofs have brought in positive revenue from the kings in a while. I'd bet they've had to put money into te team the last few years, so this is more a bill going away, at least in the short term.

 

They've been using the kings to pay off other debts, actually.

[Soxfest]

I look for new reality TV series Repo man visits the NBA!

Edited November 16, 2011 by Soxfest

[fathom]

So here's a question. If all contracts are voided, what does that mean if/when the league comes back? Will teams still hold restrictions on players who were under contract previously?

 

Why couldn't this happen with baseball?

[southsider2k5]

Why couldn't this happen with baseball?

 

Baseball has a full anti-trust exemption, the only sport to do, so they could.

[Balta1701]

League officially cancels through Dec. 15.