Quin Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 7, 2011 -> 01:03 PM) Aren't most of the guys there on NBA deals that they send down there? Just looked it up. It doesn't lock out, just guys on NBA deals can't play. Might actually be a good idea for rookies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 7, 2011 Author Share Posted July 7, 2011 QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Jul 7, 2011 -> 01:22 PM) The AHL ran when the NHL was gone. A lot of young players on entry level deals even came down to play. And then as the season progressed some NHL vets even signed on. The AHL is at least an Independent league. I'm pretty sure that the D league is owned by the NBA somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 7, 2011 Author Share Posted July 7, 2011 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 7, 2011 -> 01:24 PM) Just looked it up. It doesn't lock out, just guys on NBA deals can't play. Might actually be a good idea for rookies. That at least makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 7, 2011 -> 02:24 PM) The AHL is at least an Independent league. I'm pretty sure that the D league is owned by the NBA somehow. Gotcha. Some AHL franchises are owned by NHL teams though, so who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 7, 2011 Author Share Posted July 7, 2011 QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Jul 7, 2011 -> 02:20 PM) Gotcha. Some AHL franchises are owned by NHL teams though, so who knows. Really? I didn't know that. I know they had farm agreements, kinda like baseball, but I didn't know that some actually owned AHL teams outright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 7, 2011 -> 03:26 PM) Really? I didn't know that. I know they had farm agreements, kinda like baseball, but I didn't know that some actually owned AHL teams outright. Toronto Marlies are owned by the same ownership group as the Maple Leafs, for example. Texas Stars are owned by Dallas too I believe and I'm not sure about OKC. I know Edmonton owned a dormant franchise but I don't know if that was resurrected as OKC or they sold their rights to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurcieOne Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 According to Adrian Wojnarowski: Yao Ming has informed the Rockets that he is retiring from the NBA source: http://twitter.com/#!/WojYahooNBA/stat...383420307841025 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Hilarious: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 QUOTE (MurcieOne @ Jul 8, 2011 -> 12:43 PM) According to Adrian Wojnarowski: Yao Ming has informed the Rockets that he is retiring from the NBA source: http://twitter.com/#!/WojYahooNBA/stat...383420307841025 Pretty sad he could never stay healthy. He showed flashes of being a top 5 caliber player. But, he made an ungodly amount of money, so good for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurcieOne Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jul 8, 2011 -> 12:58 PM) Pretty sad he could never stay healthy. He showed flashes of being a top 5 caliber player. But, he made an ungodly amount of money, so good for him. I bet he goes back to China and plays there for the duration. He can probably just stand, clog the lane, or shoot standing outside shots. Won't have to worry as much about getting back on defense against lesser-athleticism (using a stereotype I know). Unfortunately, a lot of the ungodly tall players' (muresan, bol, yao) bodies don't seem to hold up very long. It seems, superficially at least, that their feet and other lower extremities can't handle a prolonged period of stress. (again being very general). Yao was pretty fun to watch sometimes and the NBA owes him a great deal for helping globalize the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 I imagine Greg Oden will be announcing his retirement this time next year. The C position will never be dominant again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 8, 2011 -> 01:57 PM) I imagine Greg Oden will be announcing his retirement this time next year. The C position will never be dominant again. Man, Yao was awesome. Sad his body couldn't handle it. Right now though, the Center position IS Dwight, followed by Horford, who would be joined by Bynum/Bogut/Noah if that trio could stay healty. Meanwhile, Rome Wasn't Built in One Day was genius by Steve Porter. Edited July 8, 2011 by Quinarvy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 8, 2011 -> 01:57 PM) I imagine Greg Oden will be announcing his retirement this time next year. The C position will never be dominant again. Never know, there are some young big men coming up through the college/HS ranks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 8, 2011 -> 02:08 PM) Never know, there are some young big men coming up through the college/HS ranks. There isn't a single great center prospect in college basketball right now and that include the 2011 class. And while it is obviously very early there doesn't appear to be the next big thing at the center position in either the 2012 or 2013 HS classes either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 8, 2011 -> 02:04 PM) Man, Yao was awesome. Sad his body couldn't handle it. Right now though, the Center position IS Dwight, followed by Horford, who would be joined by Bynum/Bogut/Noah if that trio could stay healty. Meanwhile, Rome Wasn't Built in One Day was genius by Steve Porter. The center position is brutal right now. Out of the 5 guys you listed you have one superstar, a PF being forced to play C, 2 guys who are never healthy and a guy with no offensive game at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Jul 8, 2011 -> 02:12 PM) There isn't a single great center prospect in college basketball right now and that include the 2011 class. And while it is obviously very early there doesn't appear to be the next big thing at the center position in either the 2012 or 2013 HS classes either. I guess it depends on how you define "center". Is it based on size? His ability to play through contact? His ability to play with his back to the basket? His ability to defend anyone and dominate the glass? Some combination of criteria? People use different definitions. Some consider Pau Gasol a center because he's frequently played there, while others don't. Tim Duncan has/had all of the typical attributes of a great center, but he's generally considered a PF because that's the lineup the Spurs have typically used. Dwight Howard is considered a center at 6'11" 265 while someone like Blake Griffin is strictly a power forward at 6'10" 251. I would tend to agree that they're aren't many good true centers. However, with the definition shifting as the league moves away from the lumbering brutes combined with with the difficulty in projecting young big men and I'd have a hard time concluding that there aren't any good ones on the horizon. Is Anthony Davis a center if he bulks up to like 250? What about Perry Jones III? He's probably more in the Kevin Garnett mold, but he's already listed at 6'11" 235. Clearly he has the height and length. What about Andre Drummond or Isaiah Austin? Those guys clearly have the tools to get there. It's just so hard to know with young big men, they usually take a while to develop. Plus it seems like a large part of the argument is the semantics of whether a guy is really a center or not. If you're looking for the next Shaq, yeah, it's going to be a while. But there are so many long, athletic big men that eventually you're going to find a few good ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Jul 8, 2011 -> 03:12 PM) There isn't a single great center prospect in college basketball right now and that include the 2011 class. And while it is obviously very early there doesn't appear to be the next big thing at the center position in either the 2012 or 2013 HS classes either. Andre Drummond's got a bunch of potential...he might end up as a PF at the NBA level though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Jul 8, 2011 -> 02:14 PM) The center position is brutal right now. Out of the 5 guys you listed you have one superstar, a PF being forced to play C, 2 guys who are never healthy and a guy with no offensive game at all. Yeah, but for right now, Horford is a C. Bynum and Bogut are always injured, but are good when healthy. Noah was a monster until his thumb injury. When he came back, his timing was off and he was afraid to shoot his Tornado, which he was actually making before the injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurcieOne Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 8, 2011 -> 03:08 PM) Noah was a monster until his thumb injury. When he came back, his timing was off and he was afraid to shoot his Tornado, which he was actually making before the injury. This is a really accurate assessment of Noah's entire season. Monster before the thumb, that 13-15 foot push(won't call it a shot) was actually falling in fairly-consistently (cue someone with stats proving the contrary). After the thumb, he never regained his comfort level with his offensive game and reverted to the Noah we saw the year before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Jul 8, 2011 -> 03:01 PM) I guess it depends on how you define "center". Is it based on size? His ability to play through contact? His ability to play with his back to the basket? His ability to defend anyone and dominate the glass? Some combination of criteria? People use different definitions. Some consider Pau Gasol a center because he's frequently played there, while others don't. Tim Duncan has/had all of the typical attributes of a great center, but he's generally considered a PF because that's the lineup the Spurs have typically used. Dwight Howard is considered a center at 6'11" 265 while someone like Blake Griffin is strictly a power forward at 6'10" 251. I would tend to agree that they're aren't many good true centers. However, with the definition shifting as the league moves away from the lumbering brutes combined with with the difficulty in projecting young big men and I'd have a hard time concluding that there aren't any good ones on the horizon. Is Anthony Davis a center if he bulks up to like 250? What about Perry Jones III? He's probably more in the Kevin Garnett mold, but he's already listed at 6'11" 235. Clearly he has the height and length. What about Andre Drummond or Isaiah Austin? Those guys clearly have the tools to get there. It's just so hard to know with young big men, they usually take a while to develop. Plus it seems like a large part of the argument is the semantics of whether a guy is really a center or not. If you're looking for the next Shaq, yeah, it's going to be a while. But there are so many long, athletic big men that eventually you're going to find a few good ones. I was thinking along the lines of the two-way dominant centers you could build your franchise around. Seems like those days are long gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 8, 2011 -> 03:19 PM) I was thinking along the lines of the two-way dominant centers you could build your franchise around. Seems like those days are long gone. Part of that is based on the age of most of this board. I'd assume we all started watching the league while guys like Shaq, Hakeem and Duncan were winning titles and Patrick Ewing and David Robinson were dominant as well. But that was also one of the strongest stretches of big men ever. You had four guys that were considered franchise centers in five drafts (Sampson, Olajuwon, Ewing and Robinson, obviously with Sampson getting hurt. Daugherty wasn't a complete bust the other year either.), then you had Shaq while those guys were still at their peak and Duncan at the tail end. That's three top-20 players, two more top-50 and two All-Stars. If you go back and compare it to the era that came post-Russell/Wilt and pre-Hakeem/Ewing, you didn't have a ton of elite "real centers" either. Kareem was WAY better than everyone else. Sure, there were some other big men. Bob Lanier was good, though his teams didn't win much. Bill Walton was a player when he was healthy (468 games in 12 years, yikes). Robert Parish was decent towards the end of that stretch. Outside of them, you had a bunch of guys that didn't have ideal size/bulk to be considered a true center (Moses Malone at 6'10" 215, Cowens at 6'9" 230, Willis Reed at 6'9" 235, Bob McAdoo at 6'9" 210, ect). I think that last part also contributes to our perceptions a bit. Before the 80's or so, someone like Kevin Garnett or Pau Gasol would have been a center no questions asked. Heck, a number of those guys are smaller than Josh Smith. Those kind of elite centers that can dominate on both ends are usually in short supply. Combine that with injury issues for guys like Bynum and Oden that had huge potential, and you get a shallow pool of elite centers. I'd imagine we'll see a strong cycle again at some point in the future. Edited July 9, 2011 by ZoomSlowik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 8, 2011 -> 02:57 PM) I imagine Greg Oden will be announcing his retirement this time next year. The C position will never be dominant again. The Blazers picked up an $8 million option on him just before the lockout started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Figure I'll post this before someone else does: Bill Simmons Fixes the Lockout He makes some decent points, but his free agent tier idea is horribly convoluted (though the problem he tries to adress with it is a big one) and he recycled his end of season tournament idea. I REALLY do wish they'd drop the four least-viable franchises from the league, but I doubt they will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 9, 2011 -> 09:48 AM) The Blazers picked up an $8 million option on him just before the lockout started. I know that. I'm saying that he's probably another season-ending injury away from having to call it quits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 The worst 4 franchises after 2012 get relegated to the D League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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