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2011-2012 OFFICIAL NBA LOCKOUT thread

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Jenksismyhero Grand Master

Jenksismyhero

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QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Oct 5, 2011 -> 05:18 PM)
First off, the Hornets didn't "close shop". They were bought by the league because they weren't happy with the offers they were getting (I can't comment on how good the offers were).

 

Second, in both of those cases, their financial issues are related to their owners' problems as much (probably moreso) than that of the teams. The Kings are in deep s*** largely because of the casino-related debt of the Maloofs (I don't know enough about Shinn to comment). Ownership finacial issues aren't unique to the NBA (I'm looking at you McCourt and Wilpon, which is even sadder given the markets they are in).

 

That's also two teams out of thirty that are having serious problems, and I'd bet they count for a disproportionate amount of the losses. If you contracted those two teams and improved revenue sharing, you'd probably be fine.

 

I don't get your point on the second part. Aren't good players usually a pre-requisite to winning a championship, or multiple championships in most of those cases? You also left off Detroit, who won 3 titles and isn't exactly a monster market.

 

Plus as I said before, a major market isn't a guarantee of wins. The Knicks haven't won in my lifetime and haven't come close in like 15 years, the Clippers have sucked forever, and Chicago and Boston have both gone through major down turns in the past 20 years. Houston and Dallas haven't exactly been juggernauts either. Dallas has been good of late, but I'd say that has a lot more to do with an owner that cares than their market.

 

The players go where they can make the most money while getting a chance to win. Tim Duncan stayed in San Antonio, Garnett was in Minnesota forever before the T-Wolves finally realized they were too inept to win it all, Nash has been in Phoenix for quite a while, Durant re-upped in OKC. There are plenty of counter-examples. Hell, even the guys everyone is griping about (Lebron, Melo, Bosh, Williams, probably Paul and Dwight soon, to a lesser extent Amare) stayed with their original teams past their rookie contracts.

 

I just don't see how it's really that different from baseball, which isn't getting much demand for a drastic reformatting. The players are going to go for the money first, and after that they'll generally look for the best place to win. Dropping salaries isn't suddenly going to make Lebron want to play for the Timberwolves.

 

They "closed shop" in the sense that the previous owner said "f*** this, i'm not making enough" and wanted out. The NBA stepped in to control the sale. And yes, that's a worst case example, but it's still indicative of a general problem around the league - the market is out of control and management is stupid. Hence why both sides need to fix how they operate. They need a better share of the revenue and they need to reign back contracts so franchises don't get screwed for 3-4 seasons.

 

Good players are a pre-requisite to winning championships, and my point was the small market teams that have one generally got extremely lucky to do it, i.e. getting a hall of famer who just happens to mold with the right group of guys. I don't think that happens with the way the league is currently set up. Guys are moving to get their max money even when they don't deserve it (cough* Joe Johnson* cough). Small markets can't offer that kind of money so they can't field the same quality of teams. Duncan/Nash and especially Durant are incredibly rare and care more about the team. I think their the exception, not the norm.

 

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ZoomSlowik Grand Master

ZoomSlowik

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QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Oct 6, 2011 -> 08:46 AM)
They "closed shop" in the sense that the previous owner said "f*** this, i'm not making enough" and wanted out. The NBA stepped in to control the sale. And yes, that's a worst case example, but it's still indicative of a general problem around the league - the market is out of control and management is stupid. Hence why both sides need to fix how they operate. They need a better share of the revenue and they need to reign back contracts so franchises don't get screwed for 3-4 seasons.

 

Good players are a pre-requisite to winning championships, and my point was the small market teams that have one generally got extremely lucky to do it, i.e. getting a hall of famer who just happens to mold with the right group of guys. I don't think that happens with the way the league is currently set up. Guys are moving to get their max money even when they don't deserve it (cough* Joe Johnson* cough). Small markets can't offer that kind of money so they can't field the same quality of teams. Duncan/Nash and especially Durant are incredibly rare and care more about the team. I think their the exception, not the norm.

 

The bolded part is true, but that's on ownership. What is Rashard Lewis supposed to do when the Magic offer him $20 mil a year, say no? The system can work just fine if the GM's/owners would show even the slightest bit of common sense and restraint.

 

And since when can small market teams not afford max deals? You say *cough Joe Johnson *cough, but since when is Atlanta a large market? Didn't Memphis just give a ton of money to Zach Randolph and Rudy Gay? Weren't Utah and Denver luxury tax teams for quite a while? Didn't Cleveland have a payroll around $80 mil before Lebron left? Isn't Orlando one of the top spending teams right now? Did Miami have any problem splurging on three top-tier players? There are plenty of teams outside of New York, LA, Chicago and Boston that can spend money.

 

You're really overstating the player movement issue, especially since most of your examples were TRADED. Minnesota traded Garnett because they weren't going anywhere and they wanted to give him a shot at a ring. Gasol was traded because he was pricey and Memphis wasn't winning. Allen was traded because Seattle was going into a rebuild. The problem isn't their salaries, the problem is their salaries in combination with a lack of playoff sucess.

 

Think about it, how many free agents have really gone to a major market in free agency? Shaq (was traded to the Lakers because they knew he was leaving), Amare, Baron Davis I guess since he went to the Clippers, Melo and Deron were traded pre-emtively and that's about it (Melo was definitely gone, not totally sure about Williams). The big winner the last time we had a big free agency bonanza was Orlando (Hill and McGrady) and the big winner this round was Miami. Neither is a monster market.

 

And I'll say this again: Lebron, Bosh, Melo, ect. didn't leave at the first opportunity. They all re-upped after their rookie deal was up. 7 years is a good chunk of their prime, and they left after that because they weren't happy with the direction of the team. If their teams had been run better and been more successful, they wouldn't need to leave. The money was there if they wanted it, but they left for a better situation, actually taking less money in a few of those cases.

Edited by ZoomSlowik
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greg775 Grand Master

greg775

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QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Oct 6, 2011 -> 01:04 AM)
The owners know the players will eventually cave. At this point the owners may as well sit and wait out the players.

 

The players seem kind of pissed this time.

I really don't think there will be a season.

Then after the next draft, it should really get interesting. A deal will finally be reached next September probably and it should be interesting to see all the players who get cut at massive training camps.

Two years worth of draft picks battling all the free agents, so much movement.

 

But I truly don't think there will be basketball at any point this season.

Guys like Harrison Barnes and Sullinger are really going to look smart as long as they don't suffer bad injuries this year.

 

Edited by greg775
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whitesoxfan101 Grand Master

whitesoxfan101

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I hope the NBA understands that very few people give a f*** about their lockout. People care when the NFL locks out because it's the kingpin. People care when baseball locks out because it's the only sport going on during the summer and it has such a long history in our country. The NBA has football to deal with as competition into January. It has the NCAA Tournament in March. It has baseball in the spring. It even has hockey, which is growing, in the picture. Not to mention that the NBA regular season feels like the least meaningful of the 4 major sports since several teams who make the playoffs every year have no shot at doing anything in them (although that wasn't as much the case last year, but it generally is.)

 

They don't seem to realize how much damage every lost game will do. It's not surprising, but it's ridiculous it has come to this after all the success the league had last year.

Edited by whitesoxfan101
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southsider2k5 Grand Master

southsider2k5

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QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Oct 8, 2011 -> 01:50 AM)
I hope the NBA understands that very few people give a f*** about their lockout. People care when the NFL locks out because it's the kingpin. People care when baseball locks out because it's the only sport going on during the summer and it has such a long history in our country. The NBA has football to deal with as competition into January. It has the NCAA Tournament in March. It has baseball in the spring. It even has hockey, which is growing, in the picture. Not to mention that the NBA regular season feels like the least meaningful of the 4 major sports since several teams who make the playoffs every year have no shot at doing anything in them (although that wasn't as much the case last year, but it generally is.)

 

They don't seem to realize how much damage every lost game will do. It's not surprising, but it's ridiculous it has come to this after all the success the league had last year.

 

I'll be honest, it would be nice to have the NBA, but between HS, and college hoops, plus the NHL, I won't miss it.

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Soxfest Grand Master

Soxfest

Posted
Posted (edited)
QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Oct 8, 2011 -> 01:50 AM)
I hope the NBA understands that very few people give a f*** about their lockout. People care when the NFL locks out because it's the kingpin. People care when baseball locks out because it's the only sport going on during the summer and it has such a long history in our country. The NBA has football to deal with as competition into January. It has the NCAA Tournament in March. It has baseball in the spring. It even has hockey, which is growing, in the picture. Not to mention that the NBA regular season feels like the least meaningful of the 4 major sports since several teams who make the playoffs every year have no shot at doing anything in them (although that wasn't as much the case last year, but it generally is.)

 

They don't seem to realize how much damage every lost game will do. It's not surprising, but it's ridiculous it has come to this after all the success the league had last year.

They can stay out all year, both sides are overplaying there hand. NBA is not a pimple on the NFL's ass.

 

1st 2 weeks of NBA season have been cancelled!

Edited by Soxfest
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whitesoxfan101 Grand Master

whitesoxfan101

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I didn't say nobody cares. I would assume big enough fans to post in an NBA thread on a message board care. But the number of people that care is very low.

 

Soxfest is dead on with the NBA not being a pimple on the NFL's ass, and in saying both sides are overplaying their hands here. I mean, I'd love to see the NBA lockout end tomorrow, but it isn't going to, and the whole thing is ridiculous.

 

I predicted a long time ago the whole season would end up lost, but we'll see if both sides are actually dumb enough to take a leap THAT large.

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chw42 Grand Master

chw42

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You gotta love it when super rich people argue over large sums of money like they're poor or something.

 

It's hard to side with the players when the majority of the owners are losing money and when the NBA has some of the most screwed up contracts in all of sports.

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whitesoxfan101 Grand Master

whitesoxfan101

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QUOTE (chw42 @ Oct 10, 2011 -> 11:49 PM)
You gotta love it when super rich people argue over large sums of money like they're poor or something.

 

It's hard to side with the players when the majority of the owners are losing money and when the NBA has some of the most screwed up contracts in all of sports.

 

It's both sides fault. People love to just blame one side, but usually, the truth lies in the middle. The players are not willing to give enough back considering so many teams are losing a ton of money, and the owners are trying to get back way more than is realistic. Nobody is willing to budge and look like the loser.

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chw42 Grand Master

chw42

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QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Oct 10, 2011 -> 11:51 PM)
It's both sides fault. People love to just blame one side, but usually, the truth lies in the middle. The players are not willing to give enough back considering so many teams are losing a ton of money, and the owners are trying to get back way more than is realistic. Nobody is willing to budge and look like the loser.

 

To a point, but I think in this situation, where the majority of the league is losing money, a 50-50 split isn't that unfair.

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