2011-2012 OFFICIAL NBA LOCKOUT thread

[southsider2k5]

http://www.csnchicago.com/blog/bulls-talk/...tm_medium=email

 

As NBA labor negotiations again go deep into the night -- somewhat minimized by the circus going in State College, Pa. -- with the hopes of ending the ongoing lockout, one aspect that hasn't been considered is the faction of league owners who aren't hard-liners. Among them, according to reports, is Bulls chairman Jerry Reinsdorf.

 

That shouldn't be surprising, given that under Reinsdorf's leadership, the Bulls have been one of the most profitable franchises in the league. Of course, much of that is due to the impact of Michael Jordan, but after His Airness' (ironically, one of the aforementioned hard-line owners, reportedly) second of three retirements in 1998, the Bulls continued to rank among the NBA's leaders in attendance, even when they had some truly horrific squads.

 

In the nation's third-largest market, coming off a successful season and having the reigning league MVP and one of the NBA's brightest young stars, it's only logical that Reinsdorf would want a deal made as soon as possible. With Reinsdorf signing off and through the astute personnel moves made by executive vice president John Paxson, general manager Gar Forman and the rest of Chicago's front office, as well as recommendations of head coach Tom Thibodeau, assembled a cohesive, fiscally-responsible roster that's clearly built to contend for a title and equipped with enough youth, assets and flexibility to make adjustments down the road.

 

Why wouldn't Reinsdorf want to capitalize on that momentum?

 

Without knowing his net worth, just by owning the White Sox, it's clear that Reinsdorf has at least one other lucrative revenue stream. Therefore, it's unlikely that he's hurting as much as some of these small-market owners claim the NBA's current system has affected them.

 

Conversely, this is a man who also deals with baseball's more free-market economy and while the Sox's last World Series title was recent, Reinsdorf was at the helm when he bought a fairly downtrodden Bulls team (which coincided with Jordan's arrival), saw the organization become a dynasty, watched it go through another frustrating era and then stayed patient long enough to see it again grow into a league power.

 

In short, he might not say it -- due to NBA commissioner David Stern's gag order for owners during the lockout - -but no, it's not shocking at all to learn that "The Chairman" wants an end to this never-ending circus, even if his franchise will miss its annual November circus trip.

[Steve9347]

AschNBA Steve Aschburner

@

Checketts=former NYK prez. RT @espn700shep Dave Checketts said on @espn700 he's hearing the new CBA is 10 year deal with a 50/50 BRI

[Felix]

People within the room have said it's bulls***, unfortunately. Hopefully something gets resolved today, though.

[Jenksismyhero]

it's the same f***ing script after each one of these marathon meetings.

 

[Quin]

Apparently, the offer is being taken to player reps for a vote.

 

Take the f***ing deal.

 

Also, Stern said a 72 game schedule would start Dec. 15

 

That's great for the Bulls, who aren't tool old and are deep.

 

It's bad for the Celtics who will get tired due to age and the Heat who will run LeBron, Bosh, and Wade into the ground.

[Rowand44]

Apparently, the offer is being taken to player reps for a vote.

 

Take the f***ing deal.

 

Also, Stern said a 72 game schedule would start Dec. 15

 

That's great for the Bulls, who aren't tool old and are deep.

 

It's bad for the Celtics who will get tired due to age and the Heat who will run LeBron, Bosh, and Wade into the ground.

72-0, take that 96 team!

[Quin]

WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski

Player rep (cont.): "We told them not to go past 53 percent. They did. We told them we're not taking this deal. Why waste our time?"

3 minutes ago

Adrian Wojnarowski

WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski

NBPA player rep on union leadership: "Why do they keep scrambling us to New York for these meetings when they never listen to us?"

 

If the player reps don't pass this, I will flip s***.

[DBAHO]

50-50 BRI Split, but sounds like the players want less luxury tax restrictions (allowing more player movement), and some other system issues.

 

Frankly right now, I think this is the best offer they're going to get for a while. And the players are probably split whether to accept it or not. You've got your hardliners like KG and Paul Pierce who have earned plenty of cash in their careers saying no, while a lot of the younger players would probably accept (because they need their paychecks ASAP).

[Quin]

50-50 BRI Split, but sounds like the players want less luxury tax restrictions (allowing more player movement), and some other system issues.

 

Frankly right now, I think this is the best offer they're going to get for a while. And the players are probably split whether to accept it or not. You've got your hardliners like KG and Paul Pierce who have earned plenty of cash in their careers saying no, while a lot of the younger players would probably accept (because they need their paychecks ASAP).

 

I hate KG.

 

[southsider2k5]

WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski

Player rep (cont.): "We told them not to go past 53 percent. They did. We told them we're not taking this deal. Why waste our time?"

3 minutes ago

Adrian Wojnarowski

WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski

NBPA player rep on union leadership: "Why do they keep scrambling us to New York for these meetings when they never listen to us?"

 

If the player reps don't pass this, I will flip s***.

 

Fisher didn't sound too optimistic either about it.

[Balta1701]

Link

Once NBA players digest all the details of the owners' new proposal -- including a clause opening the way for more player demotions to the D-League -- it's hard to imagine even those desperate to play would be willing to ratify it, sources who have seen the proposal told ESPN The Magazine's Ric Bucher.

 

The D-League clause, which previously had not been disclosed, is one of several elements in the owners' proposal to the locked-out players that prompted one agent to describe the proposal as "draconian."

 

The clause would give teams the right to send a player down to the NBA Development League at any time during his first five years and pay him a severely reduced contract while he's there, a source who has examined the proposal told Bucher.

 

Any player sent down to the D-League would be paid at a pro-rated scale of $75,000 a season, which is slightly above the current D-League maximum but roughly one-sixth of the NBA minimum, the source said.

 

The owners' new proposal also would prohibit luxury tax-paying teams from sign-and-trade deals after a two-year "phase-in" period, according to sources.

 

Non-tax-paying teams also would be prohibited from using the mid-level exception if doing so would take them over the salary cap, sources said.

 

"They don't want to do a deal," one agent said of the owners' proposals. "And what they've underestimated is the resolve of the players."

 

The owners also proposed offseason drug testing and raising the age limit to 20 years old to enter the league, sources said.

 

A league official qualified both those issues and the NBDL clause as "B List" items that are still open to negotiation and not among the main points that commissioner David Stern said are no longer up for discussion.

 

Stern on Thursday offered players a deal that would, if approved, allow for 72-game season that would start Dec. 15.

 

Yet the league's latest pitch, according to sources briefed on its contents after adjustments were made Thursday night, contained what the union regards as minuscule financial inducements for the players after nearly 24 hours of negotiations this week.

 

That disappointed union leaders, who were expecting more after they made a commitment earlier in the week, for the first time since the lockout began, to accept a 50-50 split of annual Basketball Related Income.

[whitesoxfan101]

Saw on Twitter that Danny Granger (Pacers player rep) says early indications are this deal is going to be rejected by the players. And if he's right (this is me editorializing), there probably isn't going to be a season.

Edited November 11, 2011 by whitesoxfan101

[bmags]

players are getting under my skin now. They should have taken 51%. They won't get a deal more than 50% anymore. They will start to dissect. They are giving up millions. Sigh.

[whitesoxfan101]

players are getting under my skin now. They should have taken 51%. They won't get a deal more than 50% anymore. They will start to dissect. They are giving up millions. Sigh.

 

I thought there would be no season a long time ago, but I thought that because I never thought the players would get an offer this good. For the most part, this process has been on the owners IMO, but I'm starting to shift to it being the players fault with how it has turned recently.

[Balta1701]

I thought there would be no season a long time ago, but I thought that because I never thought the players would get an offer this good. For the most part, this process has been on the owners IMO, but I'm starting to shift to it being the players fault with how it has turned recently.

The problem now is...the Players have gotten the owners to "Cave and offer a better deal" at what, 3, 4 different deadlines in the last 2 months?

 

The players have every reason to expect that the Owners position will move farther at this point if they wait longer.

[Kyyle23]

The problem now is...the Players have gotten the owners to "Cave and offer a better deal" at what, 3, 4 different deadlines in the last 2 months?

 

The players have every reason to expect that the Owners position will move farther at this point if they wait longer.

 

No they dont. The deadline has changed, and the players have changed their percentage to favor the Owners everytime the deadline has changed. The owners have been slowly grinding out the players, and soon Stern is going to say "f*** you all, we are going to get 47 percent and you are going to like it. And if you dont like it, we will wait you out"

 

The players originally wanted nothing less than 54 percent, then 52.5, then 52, 51, now they are at 50.

[whitesoxfan101]

No they dont. The deadline has changed, and the players have changed their percentage to favor the Owners everytime the deadline has changed. The owners have been slowly grinding out the players, and soon Stern is going to say "f*** you all, we are going to get 47 percent and you are going to like it. And if you dont like it, we will wait you out"

 

The players originally wanted nothing less than 54 percent, then 52.5, then 52, 51, now they are at 50.

 

Yeah, the owners aren't going to cave again here. If the players say no, it's almost assuredly decertification/armageddon time.

[Balta1701]

Yeah, the owners aren't going to cave again here. If the players say no, it's almost assuredly decertification/armageddon time.

The question is whether the players believe that.

 

I don't think they do.

[bmags]

No they dont. The deadline has changed, and the players have changed their percentage to favor the Owners everytime the deadline has changed. The owners have been slowly grinding out the players, and soon Stern is going to say "f*** you all, we are going to get 47 percent and you are going to like it. And if you dont like it, we will wait you out"

 

The players originally wanted nothing less than 54 percent, then 52.5, then 52, 51, now they are at 50.

 

Exactly, and s*** like the Dleague exceptions are just to change the negotiating points away from BRI to that stuff..."well we'll take out the dleague exceptions for another .5% in BRI"

[ZoomSlowik]

Exactly, and s*** like the Dleague exceptions are just to change the negotiating points away from BRI to that stuff..."well we'll take out the dleague exceptions for another .5% in BRI"

 

Pretty much. They stuck something onto their proposal that the players would never agree to so they can say they "made a concession" in order to get the players to give something back. Brilliant.

 

This whole thing is really annoying. The owners keep asking for all kinds of new rules to curtail spending on top of the extra 10% cut of BRI they want and the players seem to be listening to the agents, who should have no say whatsoever in this but keep convincing the players that they can't make any concessions so all of their clients remain cash cows.

Edited November 13, 2011 by ZoomSlowik

[Quin]

"If this deal is accepted...I advise guys to stay in school and get ur degree, Master's if possible. U might be able to make more $ that way than playing in the NBA in ur 1st five years. Being the 1st pick of the draft would mean nothing."

 

Read more: http://blogs.herald.com/miami_heat/2011/11...l#ixzz1dYHF5h3c

 

f*** Nazr Mohammed.

 

I doubt 1/8th of the players could get a Masters.

 

Kobe, Ray Allen, and role players here or there.

[ZoomSlowik]

"If this deal is accepted...I advise guys to stay in school and get ur degree, Master's if possible. U might be able to make more $ that way than playing in the NBA in ur 1st five years. Being the 1st pick of the draft would mean nothing."

 

Read more: http://blogs.herald.com/miami_heat/2011/11...l#ixzz1dYHF5h3c

 

f*** Nazr Mohammed.

 

I doubt 1/8th of the players could get a Masters.

Kobe, Ray Allen, and role players here or there.

 

Exhibit A. Even at that D-League rate you're making $75k, and that's well below the league minimum.

[Balta1701]

"If this deal is accepted...I advise guys to stay in school and get ur degree, Master's if possible. U might be able to make more $ that way than playing in the NBA in ur 1st five years. Being the 1st pick of the draft would mean nothing."

 

Read more: http://blogs.herald.com/miami_heat/2011/11...l#ixzz1dYHF5h3c

 

f*** Nazr Mohammed.

 

I doubt 1/8th of the players could get a Masters.

 

Kobe, Ray Allen, and role players here or there.

So, I have an advanced degree...I'll trade pay statements with him.

[Steve9347]

The whole league is so stupid, players and owners, to not build off the hype of last year.

 

Oh, and Nazr Mohammed is the most disconnected person in the world to try to convince people they can make more money with a s***ty degree than players in the NBA D-League. F*ck him.

[Quin]

So, I have an advanced degree...I'll trade pay statements with him.

 

I'm going to do Mizzou's 4+1 Masters (Get the masters in one extra year of school) and that's just so I can expect to get a not s***ty job as a waiter.

 

Nazr Mohammed can go f*** himself. The league should just win the lockout based off his statements alone.

 

The starting Mizzou SG/SF is in my geology lab. Shown up twice. He's paying less for school then me and he'll get to play in Europe or something (I doubt it, but he's getting his degree, so he should make more than the D-League.)