justBLAZE Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 QUOTE (JohnCangelosi @ Jun 26, 2011 -> 06:54 AM) Can someone explain to me if there is an incentive for us to keep Dayan in the minors a bit longer because it extends our arbitration time with him? I believe it's based on service time in the bigs but I am not exactly sure how that works. It's not a good reason for keeping him there of course but you always need to consider the business side of things.... linky.[/url]] A conspiracy theory of sorts has the White Sox intentionally leaving top prospect Dayan Viciedo at Class AAA Charlotte until some unnamed date this week to ensure he won’t eclipse a full year of service time. That, in turn, would allow the Sox to delay Viciedo’s free agency by a year. One source scoffed at the logic, considering Viciedo accumulated only 83 days of major-league service last season and couldn’t become a free agent until amassing the required six years. That is a long, long ways off. "There is no magic date next week," the source said Saturday. "I have seen some of the speculation out there, but a lot of it is based upon not having a full understanding of the rules." ... But with a payroll over $125 million this season, it would be ludicrous to think the White Sox would decline to add a big bat like Viciedo for financial concerns in the distant future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jun 25, 2011 -> 07:52 PM) Morel can easily be replaced. He's not a good fit for a team that needs offense. On that I think we can all agree. no i really dont agree with that at all. his defense cannot be easily replaced by anyone in this organization without having equally bad offense. omar has been a nice little plug here and there, but i dont want to see him starting at third again, and teahen is still at .200 and plays horrid defense at third. morel has excelled at every level he has been at after a slow start, im not ready to can him in his rookie year with offense being the excuse when players like rios, beckham, dunn, and pierre are being run out there every day as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeavyTime Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 “I don’t give a [expletive] what people say about me, I don’t,” Guillen said. “As long as I’m manager of this team and JP is here, he’s playing. You don’t want him here, well get him out of here and bring whoever they want to bring.” “I’ve said in the past, they want Viciedo here, my door is open, as soon as he’s here I’ll play him every day,” Guillen said. “Now, I make it clear, they gotta make a trade or make a decision to send someone down. I cannot play with a 26 man roster. But as long as JP is here, he’s playing. If people don’t like it….” OK Kenny, that's your queue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (PeavyTime @ Jun 26, 2011 -> 08:45 AM) “I don’t give a [expletive] what people say about me, I don’t,” Guillen said. “As long as I’m manager of this team and JP is here, he’s playing. You don’t want him here, well get him out of here and bring whoever they want to bring.” “I’ve said in the past, they want Viciedo here, my door is open, as soon as he’s here I’ll play him every day,” Guillen said. “Now, I make it clear, they gotta make a trade or make a decision to send someone down. I cannot play with a 26 man roster. But as long as JP is here, he’s playing. If people don’t like it….” OK Kenny, that's your queue. I know its a small sample size, but the White Sox are 4-1 in games Pierre doesn't leadoff. BTW, there is no one that cares more about what people say about them than Ozzie Guillen. Edited June 26, 2011 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 26, 2011 -> 08:51 AM) I know its a small sample size, but the White Sox are 4-1 in games Pierre doesn't leadoff. BTW, there is no one that cares more about what people say about them than Ozzie Guillen. 100% agreed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 QUOTE (PeavyTime @ Jun 26, 2011 -> 08:45 AM) “I don’t give a [expletive] what people say about me, I don’t,” Guillen said. “As long as I’m manager of this team and JP is here, he’s playing. You don’t want him here, well get him out of here and bring whoever they want to bring.” “I’ve said in the past, they want Viciedo here, my door is open, as soon as he’s here I’ll play him every day,” Guillen said. “Now, I make it clear, they gotta make a trade or make a decision to send someone down. I cannot play with a 26 man roster. But as long as JP is here, he’s playing. If people don’t like it….” OK Kenny, that's your queue. So this has always been KW's decision if Guillen is to be believed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jun 26, 2011 -> 10:28 AM) So this has always been KW's decision if Guillen is to be believed. Just like it was last year when KW called Viciedo up and Ozzie stuck him on the bench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jun 26, 2011 -> 09:28 AM) So this has always been KW's decision if Guillen is to be believed. Its ultimately the GMs decision in making the roster, but most of the top GMs do try to provide what their manager wants. Ozzie can be a clown all he wants because he knows if the Sox ultimately tell him to go shove it, or if he tells them to shove it, he can go to the Marlins and his act won't get old for several years. Plus in the NL, he can bunt until Oney comes up with an intelligent comment without anyone complaining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 (edited) I realize with Viciedo the Sox have to look at the big picture and keep him as long as they can. That being said baseball is a game you play season to season and if you have a chance to grab the brass ring you go for it. That's what the whole "All In" slogan should mean. The Sox thought they were "All In" signing Dunn and PK and AJ. They were mistaken . Now it is time to admit that mistake and bring up Viciedo. Every win counts and the longer they wait could make the difference in this division . If the Sox finish 2nd or 3rd less than 5 games from 1st the delay in not calling up Viciedo will be greatly magnified in my mind. We have enough pitching but the every day lineup is pitifully weak. Even with Viciedo nothing is guaranteed but I sure would feel better taking a shot with him in the lineup than without. If not bringing him up has nothing to do with keeping him longer then there is no reason whatsoever to keep him down there. Something is wrong, just very very wrong if someone like Kenny can't make a reasonable argument to Ozzie using advanced baseball stats and common sense about how bad Pierre or Dunn has been. DH him, play him in the outfield I don't care but get him the f*** in there every day until he proves he's no better than who he is replacing. Edited June 27, 2011 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 You'd think Oz would be sick of this horrible offense. He probably thinks Viciedo will be another station to station plodder. In theory he loves having Juan. Bad thing is we got the old Juan. He's not fast anymore and he's not good in the field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 27, 2011 -> 02:31 AM) You'd think Oz would be sick of this horrible offense. He probably thinks Viciedo will be another station to station plodder. In theory he loves having Juan. Bad thing is we got the old Juan. He's not fast anymore and he's not good in the field. Wow, I think this post is right on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 27, 2011 -> 06:33 AM) Wow, I think this post is right on. Who's actually faster than Viciedo in our starting line-up? Pierre, Alexei Ramirez and Rios, that's probably it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 27, 2011 -> 08:34 AM) Who's actually faster than Viciedo in our starting line-up? Pierre, Alexei Ramirez and Rios, that's probably it. Probably Beckham and Morel as well. AJ and Konerko no. Quentin and Dunn...depends. Dunn is somewhat faster than you'd normally think, but we haven't exactly seen him have many chances to run. Quentin isn't slow...when he's healthy, and he's spent 2 years with a bad foot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 im really not concerned with Viciedos speed vs Pierres speed, because Viciedo is not going to be leading off. As long as he can field the balls hit to him, im ok with him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jun 27, 2011 -> 09:10 AM) As long as he can field the balls hit to him, im ok with him That's probably why he's not up here yet, along with not repeating the "Gray" mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jun 27, 2011 -> 09:10 AM) im really not concerned with Viciedos speed vs Pierres speed, because Viciedo is not going to be leading off. As long as he can field the balls hit to him, im ok with him Hey why not. He could be the Sox version of Sorriano. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Jun 27, 2011 -> 02:52 PM) That's probably why he's not up here yet, along with not repeating the "Gray" mistake. You really think a decision regarding Jeff F'ing Gray is factoring into this? Seriously people, Jeff Gray. They picked Pena over Gray. Tallest midget. Sample size blah blah blah get over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jun 27, 2011 -> 09:10 AM) im really not concerned with Viciedos speed vs Pierres speed, because Viciedo is not going to be leading off. As long as he can field the balls hit to him, im ok with him For real. The guy is going to be mashing doubles all over the place. Who cares how fast he is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jun 27, 2011 -> 02:03 PM) For real. The guy is going to be mashing doubles all over the place. Who cares how fast he is? Mix in a few bombs and a lotta k's, and yeah, you're right on... I think getting Viciedo up here to replace Pierre would be addition by subtraction at worst. How many times have we seen Juan up with two on and less than two outs fail to get the job done? He is very unreliable for anything but a grounder to the right side. Viciedo, at least, could be a threat to hit the ball to the outfield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jun 27, 2011 -> 07:31 PM) Mix in a few bombs and a lotta k's, and yeah, you're right on... I think getting Viciedo up here to replace Pierre would be addition by subtraction at worst. How many times have we seen Juan up with two on and less than two outs fail to get the job done? He is very unreliable for anything but a grounder to the right side. Viciedo, at least, could be a threat to hit the ball to the outfield. I'm thinking after he finally gets called up and does well, everybody's gonna be saying, "What took so fricking long, Oz?" Hopefully it won't be too late and we fall one game shy of the Tigers or something crazy like that cause of reluctance to improve our lineup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 27, 2011 -> 02:43 PM) I'm thinking after he finally gets called up and does well, everybody's gonna be saying, "What took so fricking long, Oz?"Hopefully it won't be too late and we fall one game shy of the Tigers or something crazy like that cause of reluctance to improve our lineup. More like "What took so fricking long, Kenny?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 God this just pisses me off more and more every day. KW: f***ing MAN UP and cut Pierre and call up the Tank. There's only a few months left of Pierre's stay with the Sox, there is no return coming on that investment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Juan Pierre hasn't stolen a base since June 1. That's 18 games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 27, 2011 -> 12:57 PM) Juan Pierre hasn't stolen a base since June 1. That's 18 games. Has he been on-base since June 1st? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 QUOTE (hi8is @ Jun 27, 2011 -> 03:03 PM) Has he been on-base since June 1st? nicely done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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