WTF are we waiting for ? Call up Viciedo !

[Kyyle23]

We finally seem to have him right again. The last thing we need to do is Nick Swisher him up by trying to make him do something he isn't going to be comfortable with. the whole reason Juan Pierre is still on this team is that he is the one guy who actually has hit as a leadoff hitter on a regular basis in his career. Just like plugging Dunn into the DH spot, there are mental adjustments that go with putting someone in that spot. We don't need to screw up another player trying to do that right now. That is why Kenny isn't forcing Viciedo into the line up right now. It hasn't got anything to with the idiotic notion that somehow Pierre is being rewarded by Ozzie for sucking. It is the same idea as asking your closer to go start a game.

 

Like I said, it isnt new to him. And i also said IF Rios has figured it out, which is not guaranteed at this point.

 

 

KW isnt going to trade for a leadoff hitter, there is none available unless somehow he plans on packaging an outfielder with a pitcher, which is doubtful.

 

Look, my scenario is one that involves Viciedo coming up. If he comes up, something has to give somewhere, and it is not going to give in the infield, and even moreso not in the starters because Peavy isnt a sure thing. Lilli isnt going to lead off because he isnt going to bump someone out of the starters spot in the OF, and to me Alexei just isnt leadoff material

[fathom]

We finally seem to have him right again. The last thing we need to do is Nick Swisher him up by trying to make him do something he isn't going to be comfortable with. the whole reason Juan Pierre is still on this team is that he is the one guy who actually has hit as a leadoff hitter on a regular basis in his career. Just like plugging Dunn into the DH spot, there are mental adjustments that go with putting someone in that spot. We don't need to screw up another player trying to do that right now. That is why Kenny isn't forcing Viciedo into the line up right now. It hasn't got anything to with the idiotic notion that somehow Pierre is being rewarded by Ozzie for sucking. It is the same idea as asking your closer to go start a game.

 

IMO, it has everything to do with Ozzie's desire to have a slappy, speedy guy at the top of the order. The switch to lead off hitter is a lot less difficult than Dunn's adjustment, as you only truly lead off once.

[Jordan4life_2007]

It is June 14th and JP has 300 PAs. That's all that needs to be said.

[ptatc]

IMO, it has everything to do with Ozzie's desire to have a slappy, speedy guy at the top of the order. The switch to lead off hitter is a lot less difficult than Dunn's adjustment, as you only truly lead off once.

This is true but players don't look at it that way. The guy who bats leadoff is only supposed to worry about getting on base and moving runners along. That is their mindset. Just like the "closers" position where people think there is no difference between facing the opposing team's best hitters in an important situation in the 7th or the 9th. In a player's mind there is a big difference. If they blow it in the 7th, the team can still come baqck in the 8th and 9th. If you blow it in the 9th, game over.

 

This is why some hitters can't hit leadoff and some pitcher's can't close. It's a mind set of the player. I'm all for Viciedo getting a chance, he looks like he can be good if he keeps the Ks down. However you need to make sure the player that is going to the leadoff spot is mentally tough enough. I don't think Rios has the mental makeup, based on previous situations and I'm not sure Lillibridge is talented enough for a full season.

[southsider2k5]

This is true but players don't look at it that way. The guy who bats leadoff is only supposed to worry about getting on base and moving runners along. That is their mindset. Just like the "closers" position where people think there is no difference between facing the opposing team's best hitters in an important situation in the 7th or the 9th. In a player's mind there is a big difference. If they blow it in the 7th, the team can still come baqck in the 8th and 9th. If you blow it in the 9th, game over.

 

This is why some hitters can't hit leadoff and some pitcher's can't close. It's a mind set of the player. I'm all for Viciedo getting a chance, he looks like he can be good if he keeps the Ks down. However you need to make sure the player that is going to the leadoff spot is mentally tough enough. I don't think Rios has the mental makeup, based on previous situations and I'm not sure Lillibridge is talented enough for a full season.

 

I'd agree with that statement for sure. He is prone to long slumps and pouting. Not exactly what you want setting the table for you.

[ILMOU]

I'd like to agree with you, but over the past week or so J4L has taken it to a whole other level between his hate on the Sox organization and his NBA talk. At least I believe that greg actually believes this because he just likes the white sox so much.

 

Personally, I used to think J4L was a purely negative crackpot, but he's grown on me a ton. I now really appreciate his insight and his Rowand-like passion. Sometimes he gets a bit carried away with emotion, as most all of us do (guilty here), but there's no questioning his fanhood, IMO. You CAN love the team, and still despise the folks in charge. I don't fall into that camp entirely, but it's a completely valid viewpoint.

 

This board wouldn't be half as much fun w/o he or Milk.

 

 

 

 

[Milkman delivers]

This is one of those things that still really bugs me about the KW/Ozzie/JR relationship.

 

KW is the GM. He is supposed to be in charge. The buck is supposed to stop with him. If he thinks they're losing games because his manager is being stubborn, he's supposed to be the one with the power to tell the manager to do as he says. If the manager refuses, then the GM is supposed to have the power to remove him.

 

I don't think that's the case in this org. And if I'm right about that...that's the kind of situation where a GM ought to resign.

 

That's what I've been saying. Ozzie has the power in this franchise, and it would become even worse if Williams is replaced by almost anyone else as they are likely to be "softer" than Williams.

[Milkman delivers]

Personally, I used to think J4L was a purely negative crackpot, but he's grown on me a ton. I now really appreciate his insight and his Rowand-like passion. Sometimes he gets a bit carried away with emotion, as most all of us do (guilty here), but there's no questioning his fanhood, IMO. You CAN love the team, and still despise the folks in charge. I don't fall into that camp entirely, but it's a completely valid viewpoint.

 

This board wouldn't be half as much fun w/o he or Milk.

 

Thanks, man.

[kapzk]

greg, step back for a moment and ask yourself

 

what about pierre's game THIS YEAR has been 'moderately productive'

 

stop looking at his career as a whole, and look at 2011 by itself.

 

Juan Pierre is the 2nd worst player in the MLB if you look at his WAR.

[Soxfest]

Offense could use DV we shall see.

[kapzk]

This is true but players don't look at it that way. The guy who bats leadoff is only supposed to worry about getting on base and moving runners along. That is their mindset. Just like the "closers" position where people think there is no difference between facing the opposing team's best hitters in an important situation in the 7th or the 9th. In a player's mind there is a big difference. If they blow it in the 7th, the team can still come baqck in the 8th and 9th. If you blow it in the 9th, game over.

 

This is why some hitters can't hit leadoff and some pitcher's can't close. It's a mind set of the player. I'm all for Viciedo getting a chance, he looks like he can be good if he keeps the Ks down. However you need to make sure the player that is going to the leadoff spot is mentally tough enough. I don't think Rios has the mental makeup, based on previous situations and I'm not sure Lillibridge is talented enough for a full season.

 

Rios did lead off in Toronto in 2006 where he hit .302 that season, so I think he is very much capable given that task however this is not the same Rios from the past, until he shows that he is out of his crazy season long funk then we could experiment him in the leadoff spot.

[Balta1701]

Rios did lead off in Toronto in 2006 where he hit .302 that season, so I think he is very much capable given that task however this is not the same Rios from the past, until he shows that he is out of his crazy season long funk then we could experiment him in the leadoff spot.

Even while hitting .302, he still only put up a .349 OBP. His OBP is incredibly base-hit heavy. Alexei is, quite simply, a more patient hitter than him (yes, let that sink in, then go check his 2009-2011 numbers.

[kapzk]

Even while hitting .302, he still only put up a .349 OBP. His OBP is incredibly base-hit heavy. Alexei is, quite simply, a more patient hitter than him (yes, let that sink in, then go check his 2009-2011 numbers.

 

Yea Alexei has possibly shown more patience at the plate however both players ability to draw walks are pretty much similar (Alexei draws 2% more walks that Rios) I would rather have Alexei hit farther down in the line up in a Run producing role rather rather than Rios. It all comes down to who would you rather have when you need to score some runs I would rather choose Alexei (eventho he has been frustrating to watch with all those DPs)

[Balta1701]

Yea Alexei has possibly shown more patience at the plate however both players ability to draw walks are pretty much similar (Alexei draws 2% more walks that Rios) I would rather have Alexei hit farther down in the line up in a Run producing role rather rather than Rios. It all comes down to who would you rather have when you need to score some runs I would rather choose Alexei (eventho he has been frustrating to watch with all those DPs)

Alexei draws 2% more walks than Rios if you don't think that the current Alexei is any different than the 2008 version when he never walked.

 

This year, Alexei's drawn nearly 40% more walks than Rios.

[kapzk]

I personally think Rios is better suited for the lead off role on this team, it should take off some pressure from him. Pretty much all he should be focused on is getting on base rather than come up with a clutch hit to cash in our usual base runners when he hits behind Quentin and PK. He has failed miserably with runners on:

 

Bases Empty: .255 avg, .295 OBP, 3 Hr

Runners On: .147 avg, .219 OBP, 1 Hr

RISP: .140 avg, .206 OBP

 

[kapzk]

Alexei draws 2% more walks than Rios if you don't think that the current Alexei is any different than the 2008 version when he never walked.

 

This year, Alexei's drawn nearly 40% more walks than Rios.

 

False. 2011 Alexei has a 8.7 BB%, Rios has 6.3%, this year. So pretty much 2.4% difference, Kind of off from 40%. Alexei is pretty much inline with his 09' BB% while Rios is around his career norm.

But ya I get what you mean that Alexei is better at getting a BB. But wouldn't you rather have Alexei than Rios with runners on hitting infront of or behind our sluggers.

Edited June 14, 2011 by kapzk

[Balta1701]

False. 2011 Alexei has a 8.7 BB%, Rios has 6.3%, this year. So pretty much 2.4% difference, Kind of off from 40%.

6.3% * 140% = 8.8%.

[Balta1701]

But wouldn't you rather have Alexei than Rios with runners on hitting infront of or behind our sluggers.

Right now, Alexei will just GIDP.

[SoxnGiants]

False. 2011 Alexei has a 8.7 BB%, Rios has 6.3%, this year. So pretty much 2.4% difference, Kind of off from 40%. Alexei is pretty much inline with his 09' BB% while Rios is around his career norm.

But ya I get what you mean that Alexei is better at getting a BB. But wouldn't you rather have Alexei than Rios with runners on hitting infront of or behind our sluggers.

Ahhh, no. Your stats show that Alexei's BB per at bat % is 2% higher than Rios'. This year Alexei has drawn about 38% more walks than Rios.

[kapzk]

Ahhh, no. Your stats show that Alexei's BB per at bat % is 2% higher than Rios'. This year Alexei has drawn about 38% more walks than Rios.

 

That was what I was trying to come at, how Alexei BB% is only ~ 2% higher than Rios'

[kapzk]

6.3% * 140% = 8.8%.

 

I was trying to come at how Alexei BB% is ~2% higher than Rios. Sorry for the misinterpretation.

[kapzk]

But I don't get why you would not want Rios lead off and rather have him hit like 5th/6th behind our top hitters where he hits .140 with runners on, where as Alexei bats over .300 with runners on base.

[kapzk]

Ahhh, no. Your stats show that Alexei's BB per at bat % is 2% higher than Rios'. This year Alexei has drawn about 38% more walks than Rios.

 

BB per plate appearance should have more significance in this case when we are viewing the 2 players. As the ability of drawing a walk between both players are pretty similar.

[bjm676]

Rios as leadoff is a bad idea. You need someone who can actually get on base.

For some reason, i see Alexei as the best option.

[chw42]

BB per plate appearance should have more significance in this case when we are viewing the 2 players. As the ability of drawing a walk between both players are pretty similar.

 

A 2% difference in walk rate in 600 PAs is 12 walks. That'll change your OBP quite a bit. Alexei's average at it right now, Rios is below average. So the difference is note-worthy.