Marlins interested in Ozzie Guillen (again)

[southsider2k5]

is it really so hard and so much less effective to say that the idea is "Stupid" or "Dumb" or "Ridiculous"?

 

Maybe we could test the theory that it doesn't mean anything and figure out a way to work J4L into the Soxtalk lingo as some sort of insult?

[ChiSox_Sonix]

I hate political correctness too, but that word never pops in my head.

And even tho you call it pussification bulls***, you can't go around society saying that word or you won't have a job. Some things we just abide by nowadays.

 

And think of the writer's perspective. He's a columnist who has a great topic out there in the Marlins wanting Ozzie again. He used the Peavy line. One of many lines in the column. It got a rise out of you, so it worked. People are talkin' about his column.

Asinine is a better word than the r word in the context of the Peavy line.

 

I don't think his goal was to get a rise out of people. I think that was an attempt of his at being clever and creative...which completely fails.

 

Fine, I guess there are better words, but to me it is a non-issue and I can't believe he even got called out on that.

 

is it really so hard and so much less effective to say that the idea is "Stupid" or "Dumb" or "Ridiculous"?

 

My cousin is dumb. Sweet girl, well below average IQ, so if I had used stupid or dumb it would have been an insult to her. And ridiculous doesn't get the point across.

 

I'm obviously joking, but I am fascinated that apparently this is actually that big of an issue.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Mark down this date, but I agree with Balta.

 

And this is why you and Balta have, like, 150,000+ posts between the two of you. You guys debate and have something to say about EVERYTHING. If a black writer had written exactly what Phil Rogers said, you're not going to say that dumb "N," unless you're just a racist. You're going to say he's a f***ing moron, idiot, or use even the dreaded "R" word. That part of the article was so ridiculous that you would have to assume there's something not right mentally with the author. And we're not just talking about some random geek from a blog or something. This guy is a writer for a major newspaper.

Edited June 20, 2011 by Jordan4life

[Balta1701]

Where's the part of this thread where there is even a shred of evidence that FLA is even interested?

Here's Heyman saying so.

For next year, Ozzie Guillen and Bobby Valentine make sense, though Guillen is under contract with the White Sox.

[Disco72]

My cousin is dumb. Sweet girl, well below average IQ, so if I had used stupid or dumb it would have been an insult to her. And ridiculous doesn't get the point across.

 

I'm obviously joking, but I am fascinated that apparently this is actually that big of an issue.

 

The point is that the "R" word is not a synonym for "really dumb" or "off the charts dumb," it's a clinical term for a group of people with a particular handicap. While slang usage has made it a de facto synonym for "dumb," it is still insulting to those people that are actually retarded. It really is the same thing as calling someone a name as an insult that also refers to someone's race, ethnicity, or sexual orientation.

[Chicago White Sox]

And this is why you and Balta have, like, 150,000+ posts between the two of you. You guys debate and have something to say about EVERYTHING. If a black writer had written exactly what Phil Rogers said, you're not going to say that dumb "N," unless you're just a racist. You're going to say he's a f***ing moron, idiot, or use even the dreaded "R" word. That part of the article was so ridiculous that you would have to assume there's something not right mentally with the author. And we're not just talking about some random geek from a blog or something. This guy is a writer for a major newspaper.

It does raise a lot of questions about Phil Roger's intelligence. I don't know many, if any people that would suggest some sort of Ozzie/Peavy for Ramirez blockbuster deal. It's just absolutely mind-blowing that someone actually gets paid to write this s***. Having said that, I do enjoy reading his fairy tales. He's not a bad writer, just a complete f***ing idiot.

[southsider2k5]

And this is why you and Balta have, like, 150,000+ posts between the two of you. You guys debate and have something to say about EVERYTHING. If a black writer had written exactly what Phil Rogers said, you're not going to say that dumb "N," unless you're just a racist. You're going to say he's a f***ing moron, idiot, or use even the dreaded "R" word. That part of the article was so ridiculous that you would have to assume there's something not right mentally with the author. And we're not just talking about some random geek from a blog or something. This guy is a writer for a major newspaper.

 

Honestly with what you are doing it would be more accurate to call Rogers a n*****, because we obviously know he isn't (just like we know he isn't retarded), but use it anyway, because somehow that means is f***ing moron, idiot, or whatever else insult you want to use.

 

I know you wouldn't be all right with that, and you shouldn't be.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Honestly with what you are doing it would be more accurate to call Rogers a n*****, because we obviously know he isn't (just like we know he isn't retarded), but use it anyway, because somehow that means is f***ing moron, idiot, or whatever else insult you want to use.

 

I know you wouldn't be all right with that, and you shouldn't be.

 

Let's just say I used the term "idiot" or "moron" or "dumb" f***. What if somebody who didn't graduate HS or can't read or has an extremely low I.Q. takes offense to that? Am I wrong for using those terms? Where's the cutoff? Race or skin color does not fly. That's a totally different issue.

[southsider2k5]

Let's just say I used the term "idiot" or "moron" or "dumb" f***. What if somebody who didn't graduate HS or can't read or has an extremely low I.Q. takes offense to that? Am I wrong for using those terms? Where's the cutoff? Race or skin color does not fly. That's a totally different issue.

 

None of those terms have ever been used to clinically or socially used to describe a very specific group of people. There is a large jump between retarded and idiot. Retarded is short for mental retardation, which is very different than moron.

[BigSqwert]

Why is this same exact argument being rehashed in here? I'm pretty sure it involved the exact same people in the other thread as well.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

None of those terms have ever been used to clinically or socially used to describe a very specific group of people. There is a large jump between retarded and idiot. Retarded is short for mental retardation, which is very different than moron.

 

Technically that's not true. The term "idiot" used to be the medical term for people with severe mental retardation.

 

Almost anything insulting can be construed as offensive to someone.

[southsider2k5]

Why is this same exact argument being rehashed in here? I'm pretty sure it involved the exact same people in the other thread as well.

 

The irony is that it is in an Ozzie Guillen thread, and Guillen didn't even say anything to merit it.

[southsider2k5]

Technically that's not true. The term "idiot" used to be the medical term for people with severe mental retardation.

 

Almost anything insulting can be construed as offensive to someone.

 

Heh, learn something new everyday.

[Jordan4life_2007]

None of those terms have ever been used to clinically or socially used to describe a very specific group of people. There is a large jump between retarded and idiot. Retarded is short for mental retardation, which is very different than moron.

 

There is? Do tell. I'd love to hear your hypothesis on this.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

Heh, learn something new everyday.

 

My mom used to work with people with learning disabilities, she learned that stuff in grad school and would tell us stuff. Actually pretty interesting how they used to classify people with any sort of mental handicap.

[southsider2k5]

My mom used to work with people with learning disabilities, she learned that stuff in grad school and would tell us stuff. Actually pretty interesting how they used to classify people with any sort of mental handicap.

 

I had to wiki it. I never knew that.

[southsider2k5]

There is? Do tell. I'd love to hear your hypothesis on this.

 

You just heard it in so many words through this thread.

[Balta1701]

OzzieGuillen: Good luck trader jack kick some but

[BigSqwert]

OzzieGuillen: Good luck trader jack kick some but

\

 

See. It's not irony. He really is mentally challenged.

[Balta1701]

\

 

See. It's not irony. He really is mentally challenged.

WTF?

 

Really?

[hogan873]

The word retarded to me has always been associated with those with true mental retardation. I know there's been a push for a more politically correct term, but "mentally retarded" has stuck. Part of it may be that there are several different types of mental retardation (Downs, Autism, etc.). I have a cousin that is severely retarded (and that's what he's referred to as), but people using that term to describe someone being stupid has never bothered me.

 

As far as the dumb vs. stupid debate, I've always thought dumb was a lack of knowledge while stupid was a lack of common sense. So, Phil Rogers was "being stupid".

[greg775]

Why is this same exact argument being rehashed in here? I'm pretty sure it involved the exact same people in the other thread as well.

 

Probably because somebody used the word again.

Why use an offensive word?

[caulfield12]

Tiger Woods and President Obama have both got caught up in this very same debate. I think it was Tiger saying something about acting/playing like a "spaz" after a round at the Masters.

 

http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog...ves/003020.html

 

Then there was the bowling/Special Olympics controversy with Obama, if you remember.

 

 

If you're African-American, the "n" word will always be the most charged word any non-black person except for Eminem can say. If you have someone in your family afflicted with a physical or mental disability, that's certainly going to be #1 sensitive issue. Gays and lesbians, etc. I remember when I was younger, my mom used the phrase "acting Jewish" and then I heard someone refer to the owner of the White Sox in that manner (because of the "low payroll") and it never really dawned on me until I grew older how hurtful that could be.

 

Then there are movies like Borat or There's Something About Mary that make fun of "political correctness" and are deliberately over-the-top in order to provoke. Can Sascha Baron Cohen be racist or prejudiced if he's making fun of his own religion, for example?

 

We've seen it ourselves with Ozzie, Mariotti and the whole "fa-" debate. If Ozzie was a white manager, would he have still kept his job?

 

 

[Jordan4life_2007]

Tiger Woods and President Obama have both got caught up in this very same debate. I think it was Tiger saying something about acting/playing like a "spaz" after a round at the Masters.

 

http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog...ves/003020.html

 

Then there was the bowling/Special Olympics controversy with Obama, if you remember.

 

 

If you're African-American, the "n" word will always be the most charged word any non-black person except for Eminem can say. If you have someone in your family afflicted with a physical or mental disability, that's certainly going to be #1 sensitive issue. Gays and lesbians, etc. I remember when I was younger, my mom used the phrase "acting Jewish" and then I heard someone refer to the owner of the White Sox in that manner (because of the "low payroll") and it never really dawned on me until I grew older how hurtful that could be.

 

Then there are movies like Borat or There's Something About Mary that make fun of "political correctness" and are deliberately over-the-top in order to provoke. Can Sascha Baron Cohen be racist or prejudiced if he's making fun of his own religion, for example?

 

We've seen it ourselves with Ozzie, Mariotti and the whole "fa-" debate. If Ozzie was a white manager, would he have still kept his job?

 

This is outstanding. I totally forgot about this. Now to Balta and SS2K5, should Ozzie still be our manager?

[southsider2k5]

This is outstanding. I totally forgot about this. Now to Balta and SS2K5, should Ozzie still be our manager?

 

Should we ban you for saying something like that?