Sox "trying to get a return on investment"

[greg775]

Brent Morel is still doing exactly what he should be doing.

 

I love his glove but he's doing EXACTLY what he should be doing?

Hitting .253 with 182 at bats with one walk and an OBP of .263?

I mean I do like the young player but I would take exception to your comment. He should be doing better than one fricking walk all season.

And I do want him playing every day. I love his glove.

[Balta1701]

I love his glove but he's doing EXACTLY what he should be doing?

Hitting .253 with 182 at bats with one walk and an OBP of .263?

I mean I do like the young player but I would take exception to your comment. He should be doing better than one fricking walk all season.

And I do want him playing every day. I love his glove.

He's also "Getting better" and "playing at least average at the position overall despite being paid only $400k a year".

 

He's hitting .283 since May 1. And he ought to have more at bats than that, someone just keeps insisting on benching him.

 

Yes, he does need to take a few more walks and show more power. But that is how you develop players...they need playing time, and you need to give them a chance to play through it. Danny Valencia, on our arch rivals, has 8 HR this year, but is hitting only .213 with a .631 OPS, yet the only guy on that team with more PA's than him is Cuddyer (oh, and Valencia has over 100 more PA's than Morel). The Twins got a brief jolt from him last year, now they're into a developmental stage with him.

[Cali]

Today's off day would be a perfect time to tell Pierre and Walker their services are no longer required.

 

But, alas, they're on the charter to Denver right now I imagine... MOCKING US....

[greg775]

He's also "Getting better" and "playing at least average at the position overall despite being paid only $400k a year".

 

He's hitting .283 since May 1. And he ought to have more at bats than that, someone just keeps insisting on benching him.

 

Yes, he does need to take a few more walks and show more power. But that is how you develop players...they need playing time, and you need to give them a chance to play through it. Danny Valencia, on our arch rivals, has 8 HR this year, but is hitting only .213 with a .631 OPS, yet the only guy on that team with more PA's than him is Cuddyer (oh, and Valencia has over 100 more PA's than Morel). The Twins got a brief jolt from him last year, now they're into a developmental stage with him.

 

Nice post, I like the points you make but you said he's doing "exactly" what he's supposed to be doing in a response to a good post and I wanted to challenge you on that. I don't think one walk is exactly what he's supposed to be doing and I don't think his OBP is exactly what a starting third baseman should be doing.

I said I want him to play every day.

[Balta1701]

Nice post, I like the points you make but you said he's doing "exactly" what he's supposed to be doing in a response to a good post and I wanted to challenge you on that. I don't think one walk is exactly what he's supposed to be doing and I don't think his OBP is exactly what a starting third baseman should be doing.

As a rookie...as long as he is trending up, getting hits, not striking out, and playing defense, then he is, in my eyes, doing "Exactly" what I want him to be doing.

 

Brent Morel was not going to carry us to the division this year. But...Brent Morel could have cost us the division, if he played 3b like Teahen/Fields and was still mired in Adam Dunn territory with the batting average. When we committed to Morel, as a rookie, rather than trading him, that means we're hoping he doesn't lose us games wholesale while we try to turn him into a major league starter. Right now, he's not costing this team games, or if he is costing this team games with the bat, he also makes up for it with days like Saturday.

 

He has room to grow. But if you take into account the fact that he's a rookie that we're trying to develop, then for now, he's doing exactly what we need him to do. The remaining thing on that list is that we need to see growth, particularly in the 2b numbers, as the season goes on.

[Real]

Morel is hitting over .250 and isnt a liability at his position, what more can you ask from a 3rd RD pick in his rookie year?

 

Cant believe there's discussion about Brent Morel.... not trying to flame anyone, but this surprises me

[Eminor3rd]

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/m...ey-and-figgins/

 

Some teams get it, and some teams do not. As we discussed last week, the White Sox apparently do not. They’re just 4.5 games out of the AL Central lead after an abysmal start, yet they continue playing one of the league’s weakest hitters and placing him atop their lineup. That’s only going to hamper their chances to overtake the Tigers and Indians. A move is necessary, but they’re not making it.

 

The Seattle Mariners, on the other hand, appear to understand their current position. They’re at .500, just a game and a half behind Texas for the AL West crown. They have the league’s least potent offense, which surprises no one. But they had areas where they can improve. Earlier this month I wrote about Chone Figgins and his job security. Last week the Mariners finally made the move, recalling Dustin Ackley and benching Figgins. It might not be a cure-all for the offense, but the move shows their willingness to make the team better even if it means bruising some egos.

 

The Mariners are in a much tougher position with Figgins than the White Sox are with Pierre. After this season the Sox and Pierre can, and likely will, part ways, with only the remainder of Pierre’s $5 million salary standing in the way of an immediate separation. The Mariners have Figgins for two more years and owe him at least $17 million more, plus the remainder of his 2011 salary. That gives them a much greater incentive to continue playing Figgins to see if he can turn things around. Yet they are the ones who put the ineffective player on the bench, while the White Sox continue to play theirs.

 

With Ackley now manning second and the surprisingly effective Adam Kennedy sliding to third, the Mariners are in a better position for the rest of the season. This doesn’t guarantee them better offensive production — in fact, they’re 4-5 with 2.44 runs per game since Ackley’s promotion, even though Ackley himself has gone 9 for 30 with four extra base hits. But it’s hard to think that replacing Figgins’s .216 wOBA wouldn’t result in more runs in the final 84 games of the season. Even using Ackley’s ZiPS rest of season projection of a .315 wOBA, and assuming 300 PA going forward, Ackley projects to be about 25 runs better than Figgins the rest of the way.

 

The White Sox are not without options in this regard. As mentioned in last week’s post, they could move Brent Lillibridge into a more prominent role. But if they would rather use him as a super utility guy, they could promote prospect Dayan Viciedo. GM Kenny Williams is on record saying that he’s ready, and he could represent a major improvement on both sides of the ball for the Sox. Through 316 PA at AAA he has a .387 wOBA, and while that’s largely based on a .368 BABIP, he could still see greater success than Pierre. The possibility alone should be enough for the White Sox to act — it’s not as though he could perform much worse than Pierre. Yet they continue sitting on their hands, waiting for who knows what to happen.

 

Before the season started it was easy to like the White Sox’s chances in the AL Central. They had a solid pitching staff along with a number of solid and spectacular offensive contributors. But they’ve run into problems, and they don’t appear willing to make the necessary changes even as one of the biggest problems taunts them from the leadoff spot every night. The Mariners, on the other hand, weren’t given much consideration for the AL West crown, given their poor offense. Yet I have much more faith in the Mariners to win the West right now than I do the White Sox to win the Central, and it goes far beyond the number of games they’re currently behind. The Mariners have made a tough but necessary move in order to shore up a weakness. The White Sox have refused to do the same. It’s tough to tell exactly what they’re doing right now, but they certainly could learn a valuable lesson from Jack Z and the crew in Seattle.

[whitesoxfan101]

Morel is hitting over .250 and isnt a liability at his position, what more can you ask from a 3rd RD pick in his rookie year?

 

Cant believe there's discussion about Brent Morel.... not trying to flame anyone, but this surprises me

 

His batting average is 1 million percent irrelevant. What is relevant is his .263 on base percentage, .313 slugging percentage, and .576 OPS. I can't imagine there is a worse offensive regular at 3rd base in baseball, and those numbers are among the worst for any regular at any position in baseball. No defense can make up for those numbers.

Edited June 29, 2011 by whitesoxfan101

[Balta1701]

can't imagine there is a worse offensive regular at 3rd base in baseball

Your imagination doesn't work very well. Miguel Tejada is sporting a .566 OPS. Toronto's platoon of Jayson Nix and John McDonald each are sporting .550 OPS's. Brandon Inge, Melvin Mora, Brandon wood each have >100 at bats and are down there.

 

Then...there's Chone Figgins. Let's just not go there.

[greg775]

Morel is hitting over .250 and isnt a liability at his position, what more can you ask from a 3rd RD pick in his rookie year?

 

Cant believe there's discussion about Brent Morel.... not trying to flame anyone, but this surprises me

 

I like Morel and his potential. He actually tries to hit line drives and hit the ball to right field when it's called for. I don't, however, think you could say he's having a very productive season though. People that follow on base percentage religiously can't be impressed with his one walk in about 200 ABs.

Edited June 29, 2011 by greg775

[justBLAZE]

I like Morel and his potential. He actually tries to hit line drives and hit the ball to right field when it's called for. I don't, however, think you could say he's having a very productive season though. People that follow on base percentage religiously can't be impressed with his one walk in about 200 ABs.

 

That's two walks now mister.

[JohnCangelosi]

Meanwhile Pierre just bought himself another month on the club with 3 hits last night. Ughhh.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I like Morel and his potential. He actually tries to hit line drives and hit the ball to right field when it's called for. I don't, however, think you could say he's having a very productive season though. People that follow on base percentage religiously can't be impressed with his one walk in about 200 ABs.

 

Morel's production has been horrid. Even for a rookie. The defense has been fine. But no sub-.600 OPS is acceptable at any position outside of maybe catcher, and that's only if he's Yadier Molina-esque behind the plate. If Morel is acceptable, than '06 Brian Anderson was acceptable. And he most definitely wasn't acceptable.

[fathom]

Morel's production has been horrid. Even for a rookie. The defense has been fine. But no sub-.600 OPS is acceptable at any position outside of maybe catcher, and that's only if he's Yadier Molina-esque behind the plate. If Morel is acceptable, than '06 Brian Anderson was acceptable. And he most definitely wasn't acceptable.

 

Yeah, we can say he's doing better the last month or so, but the overall body of work offensively from him has been miserable. It would have been acceptable on a team with 6 or 7 other hitters that are performing well, but with other guys struggling, he's just another black hole in this lineup.

[Balta1701]

Morel's production has been horrid. Even for a rookie. The defense has been fine. But no sub-.600 OPS is acceptable at any position outside of maybe catcher, and that's only if he's Yadier Molina-esque behind the plate. If Morel is acceptable, than '06 Brian Anderson was acceptable. And he most definitely wasn't acceptable.

In 2006, especially in the 2nd half, I thought Anderson was acceptable, and I'll go to my grave saying we win that division if he'd played every day after June 1.

 

Morel's hitting .282 since May 1. The OPS is still putrid so don't ask, but when you also take into account the league averages...the league average OPS on the season is .684. This is another position where the numbers have gone way, way down from the steroid era. Chris Johnson from Houston is hitting .244 on the season and has put up a .685 OPS...he's basically the average 3b right now with the bat.

 

Since May 1, Brent's OPS would be the 22nd best in the league for what teams are getting out of 3b. It's not good, but the league's production isn't good this year either.

 

If I go to May 7, Brent's OPS is .673. Since May 7, Brent morel has almost been a league-average 3b.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Yeah, we can say he's doing better the last month or so, but the overall body of work offensively from him has been miserable. It would have been acceptable on a team with 6 or 7 other hitters that are performing well, but with other guys struggling, he's just another black hole in this lineup.

 

You can cherry-pick stats to death, as bucket of suck loves to do. But a week or two of hitting .250 is not going to mask the fact you've been terrible. And you make a good point. It seems like I'm picking on Morel. Ideally, you'd love to not have to worry about his production and just hope he can play a stellar 3B. At least for this year. But with so many proven regulars falling flat on their faces, Morel's crap season is magnified. Very similar to what happened with Anderson. Pods and Uribe were crap most of '06 and it made Anderson's struggles look much worse.

[Jordan4life_2007]

In 2006, especially in the 2nd half, I thought Anderson was acceptable, and I'll go to my grave saying we win that division if he'd played every day after June 1.

 

Morel's hitting .282 since May 1. The OPS is still putrid so don't ask, but when you also take into account the league averages...the league average OPS on the season is .684. This is another position where the numbers have gone way, way down from the steroid era. Chris Johnson from Houston is hitting .244 on the season and has put up a .685 OPS...he's basically the average 3b right now with the bat.

 

Since May 1, Brent's OPS would be the 22nd best in the league for what teams are getting out of 3b. It's not good, but the league's production isn't good this year either.

 

If I go to May 7, Brent's OPS is .673. Since May 7, Brent morel has almost been a league-average 3b.

 

And this is why I've come to realize that BA is overrated. And Ozzie has had to play mix and match with Morel all year. I don't believe for a second he could hit .282 over a sustained period playing every day.

[Balta1701]

And this is why I've come to realize that BA is overrated. And Ozzie has had to play mix and match with Morel all year. I don't believe for a second he could hit .282 over a sustained period playing every day.

This is a guy who hit .305 in the minor leagues overall and .322 last year between Birmingham and Charlotte.

 

He's on pace to strike out about 60 times in a 500 at bat season if he got that. If he put up a BABIP of .310 and never homered, he'd hit .276.

[fathom]

This is a guy who hit .305 in the minor leagues overall and .322 last year between Birmingham and Charlotte.

 

He's on pace to strike out about 60 times in a 500 at bat season if he got that. If he put up a BABIP of .310 and never homered, he'd hit .276.

 

At this point though, one home run and two walks is unacceptable from your third baseman, end of story as far as I'm concerned.

[Balta1701]

At this point though, one home run and two walks is unacceptable from your third baseman, end of story as far as I'm concerned.

You'd rather have the guy hitting .220 with 6 hr as our version of the league average?

[fathom]

You'd rather have the guy hitting .220 with 6 hr as our version of the league average?

 

Yes, in our offense, I'd rather have the guy who can hit the ball out of the park. It's also probably 99% likely that .220 hitter has more walks than Morel does.

[Balta1701]

Yes, in our offense, I'd rather have the guy who can hit the ball out of the park. It's also probably 99% likely that .220 hitter has more walks than Morel does.

Again the average 3b in MLB right now has a .680 ops.

[fathom]

Again the average 3b in MLB right now has a .680 ops.

 

And Morel's at .560 and showing no signs of driving the ball

[Balta1701]

And Morel's at .560 and showing no signs of driving the ball

And hes at .675 for the last 8 weeks.

[NorthSideSox72]

Morel is doing at this level what he's done at other levels. He started real bad at the plate, has been improving since with the average, and then adds a little power later.

 

If you want him to develop, then let him keep developing.

 

If you didn't want to wait, and wanted a guy who hit .280 off the bat with power, and with Morel's defense, well... how many of those do you think there are waiting around the minor leagues?

 

Have some patience, he's getting better, which can't be said of some others on this team.