Sox "trying to get a return on investment"

[bigruss]

As far as Rosner, who cares? Like you said, they were goofing around and filling airtime. I heard it. I thought it was OK.

And as far as the Dunn argument, uh, he's right. You don't pinch hit for Dunn ever.

It's his opinion and it happens to be right.

His Pierre discussion with Gonzales was great. He brought up all the Sox talk points and they both threw out the pros and cons.

The bottom line is he's a good host and just because he doesn't agree with you guys on Pierre doesn't mean s***.

I really truly don't think Rongey cares what you all think of him. He shouldn't. Fans are fanatics and lunatics and hear what they want to hear.

Whether you guys want to believe it or not, Pierre's been hitting about .260 and a lot of guys on the team suck balls worse than Pierre.

I can just as easily turn that "fans only see what they want to see" bulls*** right back at you, in fact your probably the worst of them all.

[greg775]

When Adam Dunn is batting .021 against lefties and a lefty comes into the ball game at a crucial time, you can most definitely pinch hit for him.

 

How many times has he been pinch hit for in his career since he's been productive?

I'd venture to say, uh, never?

[maggsmaggs]

How many times has he been pinch hit for in his career since he's been productive?

I'd venture to say, uh, never?

But he's not productive...so that fact doesn't matter.

 

We aren't talking about Adam Dunn from 2004 to 2010. We are talking about the 2011 Adam Dunn who has no confidence, a poor swing and is just an awful batter right now.

 

The past is the past, what's important is now.

Edited June 22, 2011 by maggsmaggs

[greg775]

But he's not productive...so that fact doesn't matter.

 

We aren't talking about Adam Dunn from 2004 to 2010. We are talking about the 2011 Adam Dunn who has no confidence, a poor swing and is just an awful batter right now.

 

The past is the past, what's important is now.

 

Cmon. I despise Adam Dunn's hitting ability, but the guy is in a multi year contract and his name is Adam Dunn. Unless you cut him, you play him and you don't pinch hit for Adam Dunn. Cmon, you disagree with that??

You are paying him so much f***ing money. He hits until he's cut or hopefully traded.

If you are the manager you don't pinch hit for Adam Dunn. You watch and sadly shake your head.

Edited June 22, 2011 by greg775

[NorthSideSox72]

But he's not productive...so that fact doesn't matter.

 

We aren't talking about Adam Dunn from 2004 to 2010. We are talking about the 2011 Adam Dunn who has no confidence, a poor swing and is just an awful batter right now.

 

The past is the past, what's important is now.

Just curious, do you think he's going to stay this way all season? Because I highly doubt it.

 

[Balta1701]

Just curious, do you think he's going to stay this way all season? Because I highly doubt it.

Problem is...we could have said the same thing on May 1.

[maggsmaggs]

Cmon. I despise Adam Dunn's hitting ability, but the guy is in a multi year contract and his name is Adam Dunn. Unless you cut him, you play him and you don't pinch hit for Adam Dunn. Cmon, you disagree with that??

You are paying him so much f***ing money. He hits until he's cut or hopefully traded.

If you are the manager you don't pinch hit for Adam Dunn. You watch and sadly shake your head.

I agree you have to play, and I am all for playing him, but you have to put the team first. And in that situation yesterday in a one-run game with Dunn hitting .021 against lefties, you pinch hit for him. Why is OK for Dunn to sit against lefties if they are starting, but it's not OK to pinch hit for him against a lefty during the game? In essence, it's the same thing. You are protecting him against a lefty and saying that someone else on the roster has a better shot for success against the pitcher than Dunn.

 

Just curious, do you think he's going to stay this way all season? Because I highly doubt it.

I have no clue. I didn't think it could worse from where he was in May, but it has. History dictates that he should break out of this, but this isn't a one-month thing now, it's three months. So maybe it's time to throw history out the window and really look at what we have here in this instant.

Edited June 22, 2011 by maggsmaggs

[Milkman delivers]

Soxtalk Ranger and Score Ranger have a lot of similarities. I am not going to go so far as leveling a personal attack. However, he does have a tendency to very politely and eloquently let you know you are an ignorant dumbass. He won't come right out and call you a drillrod like Dave Wills would, but the participant in the discussion will feel no better at the end of it. This site is no better or worse off with/without Ranger's celebrity "inside" opinion. So, please let's not get alarmed at the prospect of him going away.

 

 

I can just as easily turn that "fans only see what they want to see" bulls*** right back at you, in fact your probably the worst of them all.

 

Oh, no doubt. And by a wide margin.

[greg775]

QUOTE (Pants Rowland @ Jun 22, 2011 -> 12:21 PM) *

Soxtalk Ranger and Score Ranger have a lot of similarities. I am not going to go so far as leveling a personal attack. However, he does have a tendency to very politely and eloquently let you know you are an ignorant dumbass. He won't come right out and call you a drillrod like Dave Wills would, but the participant in the discussion will feel no better at the end of it. This site is no better or worse off with/without Ranger's celebrity "inside" opinion. So, please let's not get alarmed at the prospect of him going away.

 

The hatred of Rongey on this site is flat out embarrassing.

I mean WTF?

Do you listen to his show?? How does somebody have a "tendency to politely and eloquently let you know you are an ignorant dumbass?" Uh, he doesn't hang up on every caller. The caller has the right to talk back at Rongey.

 

[southsider2k5]

But he's not productive...so that fact doesn't matter.

 

We aren't talking about Adam Dunn from 2004 to 2010. We are talking about the 2011 Adam Dunn who has no confidence, a poor swing and is just an awful batter right now.

 

The past is the past, what's important is now.

 

So what you are saying is we should have cut Paul Konerko in 2003.

[Balta1701]

So what you are saying is we should have cut Paul Konerko in 2003.

Is Dunn recovering from a fractured foot?

[maggsmaggs]

So what you are saying is we should have cut Paul Konerko in 2003.

I never advocated for cutting Dunn. In fact, if you read above, I said the Sox should play Dunn. So if I want to pinch hit for a high-priced player, implicitly, I am saying that said player should be cut?

Edited June 23, 2011 by maggsmaggs

[Steve9347]

Why Juan Pierre?

 

Why Juan Pierre?

by Joe Pawlikowski - June 23, 2011

 

The White Sox are a team on the rebound. After a dismal April in which they went 10-18 with a -34 run differential, they’ve turned things around and have gone 27-21 since, bringing them to within two games of .500 and to within 4.5 games of the AL Central lead. They still face a number of problems, including four starters with wOBAs below .300. But given how good their top guys have been, they can mask that for a bit until the trailers either pick up their performances, or GM Kenny Williams swings a trade for upgrades.

 

In the meantime, the Sox should be maximizing their resources by playing the guys who are actually hitting, and putting them in prominent lineup spots. Unfortunately, Ozzie Guillen has continued to hit one of his worst hitters atop the lineup, and doesn’t play another who has produced in his limited appearances.

 

The White Sox list of problems starts at the top of the order. In 72 of the Sox 76 games Juan Pierre has hit leadoff, and he has produced a .274 wOBA (.314 OBP). Of the White Sox with at least 200 PA, only Alex Rios has produced a lower wOBA. The .314 OBP isn’t quite as bad, since it’s close to the .320 league average. But that’s still poor for a leadoff hitter, and it’s made even poorer by Pierre’s nine caught stealings in 19 attempts. That, along with his complete lack of power — just eight extra base hits this season — puts his wOBA in perspective.

 

Even from this quick glance it is clear that Pierre does not belong atop the White Sox lineup. Guillen doesn’t have many good options for replacing him, since only five of the White Sox starters have OBPs above the league average and three of them clearly don’t fit as leadoff hitters. But he could easily slot in Alexei Ramirez or Brent Lillibridge as the leadoff man in order to give the big producers, Paul Konerko and Carlos Quentin, some base runners. Beyond the case for removing Pierre as leadoff hitter, there’s also a strong case for removing him as a starter completely.

 

It’s always tricky playing with small samples of defensive data, so the knock on Pierre’s defense this season isn’t necessarily indicative of his talent in the outfield. Yet both of our major defensive statistics, UZR and DRS, rate him natively in left field. If it were just UZR it would be one thing, but this is both sets of data, and both come to similar conclusions. It could be that he’s in a slump in the field, but that doesn’t help recoup the value he’s already cost the team. Regardless of what might happen later in the season, he has been a liability on both sides in 2011. A team scrambling back from a slow start can ill afford to continue trotting out a player like that.

 

In Lillibridge, Guillen has a ready made replacement. It’s silly to pretend that he’ll keep up his .390 wOBA or his .277 ISO, but even with a decent degree of statistical correction he still amounts to a better player than Pierre. He has displayed ability in the outfield this year as well, making him a wholesale upgrade over Pierre. He also has some speed and some semblance of discipline, making him a fit atop the order. Even if he regresses to the .270/.330/.378 level he hit in AAA in 2010, he’d provide well more than Pierre. If he hits to his previous major league levels, well, then it’s still a worthy experiment because of Pierre’s performance to date.

 

The White Sox have every opportunity to rid themselves of Pierre’s poor production. If, because of depth issues, they want to keep him on the roster, they can shift him down in the order. If they feel that someone such as Lillibridge, or an outside replacement, can slide in there, they can just get rid of him. His contract is up after this season, so they lose little by letting him go. That makes his struggles quite different to those of Alex Rios, who is under contract through 2014. It seems awfully odd at this point that the Sox, so close to becoming relevant again, haven’t done anything about their most glaring issue.

[ottawa_sox]

Here you go...

 

http://www.southsidesox.com/2011/6/21/2234...ays-until-dayan

 

Seems to me that for all of the postulating, tongue wagging and general character assassination, this says it all. Money rules.

[Balta1701]

Seems to me that for all of the postulating, tongue wagging and general character assassination, this says it all. Money rules.

Sadly though, wins = money

[ottawa_sox]

Sadly though, wins = money

 

Agree in a general sense. But, at least the equation isn't 100% infallible. Otherwise the evil empire would win every year.

[Balta1701]

Agree in a general sense. But, at least the equation isn't 100% infallible. Otherwise the evil empire would win every year.

But theyearn a fortune.

[lostfan]

Why Juan Pierre?

"trade pierre to the brewers for mark kotsay. kotsay would be perfect in LF and is also a great part-time DH."

 

I lol'd.

 

Then I cried myself to sleep. Then I jolted up from my sleep screaming, with cold sweat running down my forehead.

Edited June 24, 2011 by lostfan

[Jordan4life_2007]

Why Juan Pierre?

 

It's become a world-wide epidemic. And only one moron doesn't seem to get it. Ozzie has to be beyond a shadow of a doubt the worst World Series winning manager in league history.

[Cali]

Anyone can feel free to use this....

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

It's become a world-wide epidemic. And only one moron doesn't seem to get it. Ozzie has to be beyond a shadow of a doubt the worst World Series winning manager in league history.

That was very hyperbolic !! You're gone !

[max power]

Here you go...

 

http://www.southsidesox.com/2011/6/21/2234...ays-until-dayan

Oh, I really hope this is it.

[caulfield12]

Bob Lemon?

Joe Altobelli??

Dallas Green?

Alvin Dark?

Johnny Keane and Red Schoendiest with the Cardinals?

Mayo Smith, he won the 1968 World Series as manager of the Tigers...

Charlie Manuel wasn't a very good manager at all until he had all that talent to work with on the Phillies.

 

It's pretty hard for me to say Guillen is the worst.

[southsider2k5]

Bob Lemon?

Joe Altobelli??

Dallas Green?

Alvin Dark?

Johnny Keane and Red Schoendiest with the Cardinals?

Mayo Smith, he won the 1968 World Series as manager of the Tigers...

Charlie Manuel wasn't a very good manager at all until he had all that talent to work with on the Phillies.

 

It's pretty hard for me to say Guillen is the worst.

 

Terry Bevington without a doubt, was the worst manager I have seen on the south side.

[caulfield12]

Terry Bevington without a doubt, was the worst manager I have seen on the south side.

 

 

I was just responding to the "worst World Series-winning manager" post earlier.

 

Torborg and Guillen have been my favorites.