Sox "trying to get a return on investment"

[JohnCangelosi]

I was just responding to the "worst World Series-winning manager" post earlier.

 

Torborg and Guillen have been my favorites.

I really would like Ozzie if he wasn't so pig headed and just admitted when he was wrong and quit while he was behind with Kotsay, Pierre, etc. Personality wise I think he's good for Chicago, and clearly the boss, which I like in a manager.

[Dick Allen]

Honestly the obsession with "All in" is scary. It is an advertising campaign for gods sake. Does everyone expect to see the Miller Lite Guards if you pick up a case of bud light with your strawberry body wash too? Let it go people.

While "All In" is indeed an advertising campaign, it isn't something the ad agency came up with. Its from quotes from JR and KW when they signed Dunn and brought AJ and Konerko back.

 

Quote from KW at the Dunn press conference:

 

It's uncomfortable sometimes, but you either are all in or you are not. And if you are not, then present that message to your fans. Be straight and say, 'I don't think we are going to do very much and here's the plan going forward.' If you are in it, stand up and show you are."

 

Then he said this:

 

"Yeah, I make [Reinsdorf] uncomfortable a little bit sometimes," said Williams, who quipped the White Sox were looking for money under couch cushions to pay for the budget increase. "Hopefully we can continue to build the best team possible and people will get excited and support us, and then I get to keep my job."

 

I wonder if KW really frets about job security or if it is more fake humility.

Edited June 25, 2011 by Dick Allen

[Jordan4life_2007]

Juan Pierre's June slashline: .200/.259/.240/.499. He's 1/2 SB/SBO.

 

It is of my belief and unprofessional opinion that JP is not performing at an acceptable standard of what should be expected for even an average Major League baseball player. Despite these terrifying/embarrassing splits, he still leads the team in plate appearances for this month. That, to me, demonstrates that our manager, a man who's paid handsomely to, well, manage and put this group of 25 professional ball players in the best position to succeed, is either not seeing what is painfully obvious (and you would then naturally have to question his baseball intelligence) or that he's so, what's the word, obstinate (yes, that will suffice), that he'd rather go down his way than to adapt or adjust on the fly, in essence doing something that you don't really want to do but doing so because it would be beneficial for the team he gets paid to manage.

 

We are now three months into the season and all the "it's early" talk no longer holds sufficient water. You simply cannot give a player of Juan Pierre's caliber another 300+ PAs because of staunch adherence. There's no legitimate logic behind this. Well, other than, let's see, "I'm DA focking manger and I make da facking lineups" or "You guys have to work real jobs. Wat do you know?"

[greg775]

Juan Pierre's June slashline: .200/.259/.240/.499. He's 1/2 SB/SBO.

 

It is of my belief and unprofessional opinion that JP is not performing at an acceptable standard of what should be expected for even an average Major League baseball player. Despite these terrifying/embarrassing splits, he still leads the team in plate appearances for this month. That, to me, demonstrates that our manager, a man who's paid handsomely to, well, manage and put this group of 25 professional ball players in the best position to succeed, is either not seeing what is painfully obvious (and you would then naturally have to question his baseball intelligence) or that he's so, what's the word, obstinate (yes, that will suffice), that he'd rather go down his way than to adapt or adjust on the fly, in essence doing something that you don't really want to do but doing so because it would be beneficial for the team he gets paid to manage.

 

We are now three months into the season and all the "it's early" talk no longer holds sufficient water. You simply cannot give a player of Juan Pierre's caliber another 300+ PAs because of staunch adherence. There's no legitimate logic behind this. Well, other than, let's see, "I'm DA focking manger and I make da facking lineups" or "You guys have to work real jobs. Wat do you know?"

 

Juan should be batting ninth.

Problem is Gordon, Morel, Rios and Dunn are also deserving of batting ninth.

It's a team game and it's not all on Juan.

Though Juan does need to go away probably. Viciedo might give this team some oomph that could get us on a 9-1 stretch.

 

[maggsmaggs]

Merkin raving about Viciedo on White Sox Weekly, saying everything he has heard about him is great. Peavy even mentioned to Merk how great Viciedo looked. Also implied Sox (mainly the front office) are getting tired of Juan and might look to cut ties in the near future. Nothing imminent, however, and I am reading between many lines.

Edited June 25, 2011 by maggsmaggs

[hi8is]

Juan Pierre's June slashline: .200/.259/.240/.499. He's 1/2 SB/SBO.

 

It is of my belief and unprofessional opinion that JP is not performing at an acceptable standard of what should be expected for even an average Major League baseball player. Despite these terrifying/embarrassing splits, he still leads the team in plate appearances for this month. That, to me, demonstrates that our manager, a man who's paid handsomely to, well, manage and put this group of 25 professional ball players in the best position to succeed, is either not seeing what is painfully obvious (and you would then naturally have to question his baseball intelligence) or that he's so, what's the word, obstinate (yes, that will suffice), that he'd rather go down his way than to adapt or adjust on the fly, in essence doing something that you don't really want to do but doing so because it would be beneficial for the team he gets paid to manage.

 

We are now three months into the season and all the "it's early" talk no longer holds sufficient water. You simply cannot give a player of Juan Pierre's caliber another 300+ PAs because of staunch adherence. There's no legitimate logic behind this. Well, other than, let's see, "I'm DA focking manger and I make da facking lineups" or "You guys have to work real jobs. Wat do you know?"

That's what's up.

 

[JohnCangelosi]

Juan Pierre's June slashline: .200/.259/.240/.499. He's 1/2 SB/SBO.

 

It is of my belief and unprofessional opinion that JP is not performing at an acceptable standard of what should be expected for even an average Major League baseball player. Despite these terrifying/embarrassing splits, he still leads the team in plate appearances for this month. That, to me, demonstrates that our manager, a man who's paid handsomely to, well, manage and put this group of 25 professional ball players in the best position to succeed, is either not seeing what is painfully obvious (and you would then naturally have to question his baseball intelligence) or that he's so, what's the word, obstinate (yes, that will suffice), that he'd rather go down his way than to adapt or adjust on the fly, in essence doing something that you don't really want to do but doing so because it would be beneficial for the team he gets paid to manage.

 

We are now three months into the season and all the "it's early" talk no longer holds sufficient water. You simply cannot give a player of Juan Pierre's caliber another 300+ PAs because of staunch adherence. There's no legitimate logic behind this. Well, other than, let's see, "I'm DA focking manger and I make da facking lineups" or "You guys have to work real jobs. Wat do you know?"

Agreed, this must come to an end soon. I agree with Greg we have several other deserving candidates for batting 9th, unfortunately, but we must start somewhere and JP is the most expendable candidate to go right now because of all signs pointing to Viciedo being ready. JP's skills have clearly diminished and it's time to DFA him. Like it or not, we're locked in with Rios and Dunn and we have to hope they can break out of it (Rios is showing some signs of late). I wouldn't mind sending Gordon down for a month and getting him some confidence again.

[justBLAZE]

“I wish I could say what I think, because I’d be on CNN, the Playboy Channel, everywhere, [if I say] what I really think about this,” Guillen said. “But I’m not going to say it, it’s the first time I’m going to keep it to myself.”

 

“I wipe my [expletive] with the critics,” Guillen said emphatically. “I play JP because I think that’s the best guy to help us win. If he’s 0-for-100, you think I don’t know that? But in the meanwhile, when you’re in my spot, when you sit in my chair you will be criticized 99 percent of the time. Because when things are going good, you have good players. When things are going bad, the manager’s [expletive].”

[BigSqwert]

^I relish the day this clown is fired.

[caulfield12]

"There isn't a single team in baseball that would bench Adam Dunn."

 

Rongey

[lostfan]

Was that a real Ozzie quote?

 

lol, really shut the f*** up Ozzie. At least he didn't say "don't watch the games" this time

[Cerbaho-WG]

Not saying I don't believe it, but what's the source on that Ozzie quote?

 

If Ozzie actually believes that Juan is the best player to help this team win then he's about as dumb as I thought he was.

[Balta1701]

Not saying I don't believe it, but what's the source on that Ozzie quote?

 

If Ozzie actually believes that Juan is the best player to help this team win then he's about as dumb as I thought he was.

Link

 

[Dick Allen]

Rongey with the return on the investment crap is just spewing what he believes to be the company line. He also stated that one hitter isn't going to make a difference. So I suppose he probably believes that if Adam Dunn was hitting like most thought he would instead of how he actually is, since he is only one guy, it really wouldn't matter.

 

He can't really believe that. I bet you if you got him hammered and he was spilling the truth, he would tell you it was time for Juan Pierre to either sit down or go home.

[caulfield12]

Rongey with the return on the investment crap is just spewing what he believes to be the company line. He also stated that one hitter isn't going to make a difference. So I suppose he probably believes that if Adam Dunn was hitting like most thought he would instead of how he actually is, since he is only one guy, it really wouldn't matter.

 

He can't really believe that. I bet you if you got him hammered and he was spilling the truth, he would tell you it was time for Juan Pierre to either sit down or go home.

 

That was the convenient excuse when it was Anderson/Owens/Wise/Erstad out there in CF, or Kotsay DHing with Jones (over Thome), but this year, there's 5 holes in our line-up.

 

Surely, logic dictates that we have good enough pitching to win our division, clearly. Heck, we have more quality starts than any team in baseball since 2003. You can't do much about Rios, so you have four places to fine-tune (especially since Rios seems to be showing lots of tangible signs of improvement, including another wind-blocked homer today). This leaves you, obviously, with Morel, Beckham, Dunn and Pierre.

 

Morel's a rookie, he's still yet to show that 700-ish OPS power and his OBP is a mess, but he seems to do more harm than good at least when he's out on the field. Realistically, you can't play Teahen or expect Omar to repeat last year's stretch.

 

That only leaves Pierre, Dunn and Beckham. Something's gotta give.

 

 

[maggsmaggs]

And all these struggles come back to the farm system issue. While these guys suck, unfortunately we don't really have better options. Viciedo clearly is the one for Pierre. But Dunn? Nobody. Beckham? Nobody. Morel? Nobody. Lillibridge is playing great, but we are starting to see him exposed and he is clearly better as a super utility player. Teahen isn't good enough right now to start every day.

 

We could bring a guy like Kuhn, but chances are he is going to do exactly what the Cubs' DJ LeMahieu is doing (.514 OPS). I only say that because they both had similar numbers in AA. We've been through the Dallas McPhereson already. There is no doubt that Beckham, Dunn, Morel and Pierre should not be starting in a Major League lineup for a team trying to win a division, but unfortunately they are the best options we have sans of course Noodle-arm.

[caulfield12]

Almost starting to wonder if it wouldn't be better to use Jordan Danks or Tyler Flowers as the DH.

 

It's gotten THAT bad.

 

Or Teahen, he's probably the first internal option, after Viciedo. Lillibridge definitely needs to stay ensconced in his role.

[Balta1701]

There is no doubt that Beckham, Dunn, Morel and Pierre should not be starting in a Major League lineup for a team trying to win a division, but unfortunately they are the best options we have sans of course Noodle-arm.

Brent Morel is still doing exactly what he should be doing.

[caulfield12]

Brent Morel is still doing exactly what he should be doing.

 

 

Unfortunately, it would be much better were he doing in on the 2007 White Sox when there was no concern about being "All In."

 

I know the response. Rios/Beckham/Pierre/Dunn are the ones responsible, not Morel. Same things that were said in 2006 when Anderson was struggling and then offense fell off in the 2nd half and it was harder to justify playing him, even though his OPS picked up quite a bit.

 

We'll see. They gave up pretty quickly on Chris Getz. Of course, they had Beckham to replace him, but they never gave him much time to prove himself, either. You can argue that by Chris' play since then the trade was still the right move, but we've never been noted for our patience with younger players.

 

Even Viciedo sat quite a bit last year and was only used in "favorable" match-ups by Ozzie.

 

 

[Balta1701]

Unfortunately, it would be much better were he doing in on the 2007 White Sox when there was no concern about being "All In."

 

I know the response. Rios/Beckham/Pierre/Dunn are the ones responsible, not Morel. Same things that were said in 2006 when Anderson was struggling and then offense fell off in the 2nd half and it was harder to justify playing him, even though his OPS picked up quite a bit.

 

We'll see. They gave up pretty quickly on Chris Getz. Of course, they had Beckham to replace him, but they never gave him much time to prove himself, either. You can argue that by Chris' play since then the trade was still the right move, but we've never been noted for our patience with younger players.

 

Even Viciedo sat quite a bit last year and was only used in "favorable" match-ups by Ozzie.

Worth pointing out again that after this weekend, Brent Morel hit .283 in May, and he's hitting .283 in June.

 

Yes, everyone can agree the power isn't there and an additional walk or two would be nice. But he's not trending down, he flat out doesn't strike out, he is really good with the glove and he has a lot of room to grow.

[Balta1701]

"There isn't a single team in baseball that would bench Adam Dunn."

 

Rongey

In this case, I can't say that Rongey is wrong.

 

Teams would bench him part time. They'd platoon him. They'd bench him at home sometimes if there's a righty on the mound. But every team in MLB, if they'd invested $14 mil a year in a guy with Dunn's track record, would still keep sending him out there at least every time there's a righty on the mound.

[maggsmaggs]

Brent Morel is still doing exactly what he should be doing.

I have been a big Morel supporter in his minor league days and coming into the season, but Brent should be hitting for better than a .577 OPS. Nine extra-base hits and one walk. That is terrible.

 

Now his defense has been stellar, and going into the year, we knew there would be some growing pains with Brent. But he is atrociously bad offensively. Brent seems to be a good worker, so I hope he can rebound, but he should be doing better.

[southsider2k5]

I have been a big Morel supporter in his minor league days and coming into the season, but Brent should be hitting for better than a .577 OPS. Nine extra-base hits and one walk. That is terrible.

 

Now his defense has been stellar, and going into the year, we knew there would be some growing pains with Brent. But he is atrociously bad offensively. Brent seems to be a good worker, so I hope he can rebound, but he should be doing better.

 

Like I said. I think Ozzie is doing a great job of trying to play the match ups with both of the Brent's. I'd like to see Lilli 3-4 times a week, but I think Morel has been about right.

[Balta1701]

Like I said. I think Ozzie is doing a great job of trying to play the match ups with both of the Brent's. I'd like to see Lilli 3-4 times a week, but I think Morel has been about right.

Morel has been benched way too often.

[shago]

^I relish the day this clown is fired.

This