To sell, or not to sell?

[NorthSideSox72]

George W. Bush issued 288 executive orders during his time in office. To this point, 2.45 years in, Barack Obama has issued 54. So, again, just off of numbers of them, Bush issued far more, and did so at a higher pace (although in both cases it's possible that things will accelerate). Full list.

So, just like the fears of Obama becoming an arch liberal with his policies... the idea that he has somehow turned into an executive dictator is patently false. Interesting.

 

Unfortunately, one of his executive actions is Libya, which is kind of HUGE. Iraq and Afghanistan were actually endorsed by Congress.

 

[StrangeSox]

No, that is not me, and I left because I was tired of dealing with single minded idiots who just got more and more 'angry' the more you tried to have conversations, and resorted to increasingly personal attacks and insults.

 

FWIW you left over a post that NSS made, which always struck me as sorta funny since he's usually about as middle-of-the-road as you can get.

[Balta1701]

So, just like the fears of Obama becoming an arch liberal with his policies... the idea that he has somehow turned into an executive dictator is patently false. Interesting.

 

Unfortunately, one of his executive actions is Libya, which is kind of HUGE. Iraq and Afghanistan were actually endorsed by Congress.

Factual correction that I blame on Wikipedia. Took me a minute to realize that there are dates missing, and so executive orders missing, from the Wikipedia List.

 

The full Obama total is 91. That averages out to ~295 EO's issued during an 8 year term if he kept doing so at this pace (not always the case, lots of EO's are always issued right up front, like closing guantanamo and ending the global gag rule).

 

So, if Obama kept up the current pace from his first 2.5 years, he'd have about 7 more executive orders than Bush.

[EvilMonkey]

Factual correction that I blame on Wikipedia. Took me a minute to realize that there are dates missing, and so executive orders missing, from the Wikipedia List.

 

The full Obama total is 91. That averages out to ~295 EO's issued during an 8 year term if he kept doing so at this pace (not always the case, lots of EO's are always issued right up front, like closing guantanamo and ending the global gag rule).

 

So, if Obama kept up the current pace from his first 2.5 years, he'd have about 7 more executive orders than Bush.

Yes, executive orders is what i meant. And even if he only signs half as many as bush, you all decried their use then, yet are silent now. And he IS trying to rule by executive fiat. Can't get labor laws you want passed? Appoint a union stooge to heard the NLRB and just f*ck business from within untouched. Can't convince enough people that globull warming is real? Have the EPA start regulating everything it remotely THINKS it can. Obama has already shown he has no problems going around the legislative process when it suits his agenda. Actions such as those would be lambasted forever under a Republican admin. But hey, Democrats mean well, so all is good.

[EvilMonkey]

FWIW you left over a post that NSS made, which always struck me as sorta funny since he's usually about as middle-of-the-road as you can get.

The NSS post was just the last one there for me to reply to, it was others that broke the camel's back.

[The Sir]

If Reagan were running in 2012 using the same stances from his 8 year tenure he'd come in last place in the primaries and labeled a leftist whacko by the base.

 

Like lowering taxes to stimulate the economy, a strong national defense and less government interference in citizens' lives? Those ain't no leftist principles I've ever heard of.

[The Sir]

While I don't claim to know how 'America' succumbed, I don't see where the others are that far off. If Bush would have used Executive signings 1/3 as much as Obama has, and bypassed congress with his appointments and had department head make regulations when he couldn't get laws passed, the left side of this board would be going postal. You know this, and to deny that would be a lie. His bowing to foreign heads of state has been well below the angle of respect and to the level of subservience, and he HAS spent a better part of his admin apologizing for America. Obama has also insulted many sectors of the public, although usually the side that didn't vote for him anyway. Bitter clingers, anyone?

 

This.

 

If anyone like BigSqwert or Russ wants to write off my views as "Tea Party bumper slogans", I don't really care. It's a cheap, weak argument, and me or AD could just as easily write off our opponents' arguments as "liberal hippie bumper slogans". But that would just be dumb.

 

So you can ignore me, but that doesn't change what I said. Obama has bowed before multiple foreign leaders, and that's below the office of President. I know you treat foreign leaders with respect, but bowing shows subservience. JFK realized this when he met the Pope. He did not kiss the Pope's ring because he knew he wasn't meeting the man as a Catholic, but as President of the United States and thus the show of subservience would have been inappropriate. Obama hasn't realized this. Also, personally, I'd say the Saudi king is third world, fundamentalist despot. Regardless, friend or foe, POTUS doesn't bow to him.

 

Just off the top of my head: there's the ICE memo. The DREAM Act was rejected by Congress, so Obama has set out to find other ways. That is unlawful. Then there's the War Powers Act. After crucifying Bush for years on Iraq, Obama flat out ignores the same act to which he tried to hold GWB accountable. And then he comes up with excuses as to why he doesn't have to answer to that act. Oh, and then there was his promise a few weeks ago that gun control was being worked on "under the table". This from Mr. Transparency, mind you. I'd figure he was talking about an attempt to ratify the UN Small Arms Treaty. Gun control from the UN, bypassing Congress and violating our national sovereignty. He should be warned that such an act would be treason, and no conservative I've ever met is going to simply give up their guns and go easily into the night. The man has shown repeatedly that he will forgo Congress if he thinks he can get away with it.

 

You guys write off the insults to a good portion of the American population, but how would you have reacted if Bush had said that some people won't ever vote for him because they are "dirty hippies who cling to their bongs and government assistance"? That wouldn't have gone over well. He can insult my culture and my politics and my belief in American exceptionalism all he wants, but it's not winning me over. And since I doubt many of you are in the military, I assure you, the regular troops are none too pleased by his neglectful insult of two of the more heroic men in our ranks.

 

Oh, and may I just mention his unpresidential pettiness? We can start with him spitting on separation of powers with his State of the Union remark about Citizen's United vs FEC. He's free to disagree with the ruling, but that was totally unbecoming.

[bmags]

Like lowering taxes to stimulate the economy, a strong national defense and less government interference in citizens' lives? Those ain't no leftist principles I've ever heard of.

 

Reagan also had raised taxes during his eight year term and signed into law a bill that guaranteed the treatment of anyone coming in the ER. What a leftist. He also gave illegals amnesty, clearly he didn't love America. He even appointed a drug czar!

[bigruss]

This.

 

If anyone like BigSqwert or Russ wants to write off my views as "Tea Party bumper slogans", I don't really care. It's a cheap, weak argument, and me or AD could just as easily write off our opponents' arguments as "liberal hippie bumper slogans". But that would just be dumb.

 

So you can ignore me, but that doesn't change what I said. Obama has bowed before multiple foreign leaders, and that's below the office of President. I know you treat foreign leaders with respect, but bowing shows subservience. JFK realized this when he met the Pope. He did not kiss the Pope's ring because he knew he wasn't meeting the man as a Catholic, but as President of the United States and thus the show of subservience would have been inappropriate. Obama hasn't realized this. Also, personally, I'd say the Saudi king is third world, fundamentalist despot. Regardless, friend or foe, POTUS doesn't bow to him.

 

Just off the top of my head: there's the ICE memo. The DREAM Act was rejected by Congress, so Obama has set out to find other ways. That is unlawful. Then there's the War Powers Act. After crucifying Bush for years on Iraq, Obama flat out ignores the same act to which he tried to hold GWB accountable. And then he comes up with excuses as to why he doesn't have to answer to that act. Oh, and then there was his promise a few weeks ago that gun control was being worked on "under the table". This from Mr. Transparency, mind you. I'd figure he was talking about an attempt to ratify the UN Small Arms Treaty. Gun control from the UN, bypassing Congress and violating our national sovereignty. He should be warned that such an act would be treason, and no conservative I've ever met is going to simply give up their guns and go easily into the night. The man has shown repeatedly that he will forgo Congress if he thinks he can get away with it.

 

You guys write off the insults to a good portion of the American population, but how would you have reacted if Bush had said that some people won't ever vote for him because they are "dirty hippies who cling to their bongs and government assistance"? That wouldn't have gone over well. He can insult my culture and my politics and my belief in American exceptionalism all he wants, but it's not winning me over. And since I doubt many of you are in the military, I assure you, the regular troops are none too pleased by his neglectful insult of two of the more heroic men in our ranks.

 

Oh, and may I just mention his unpresidential pettiness? We can start with him spitting on separation of powers with his State of the Union remark about Citizen's United vs FEC. He's free to disagree with the ruling, but that was totally unbecoming.

LOL, I never even said that you were posting that way. I had a problem with you labeling your values as America's values.

 

But since I don't agree with you I must be labeling you something tea party related.

[StrangeSox]

Like lowering taxes to stimulate the economy

[StrangeSox]

You guys write off the insults to a good portion of the American population, but how would you have reacted if Bush had said that some people won't ever vote for him because they are "dirty hippies who cling to their bongs and government assistance"? That wouldn't have gone over well. He can insult my culture and my politics and my belief in American exceptionalism all he wants, but it's not winning me over. And since I doubt many of you are in the military, I assure you, the regular troops are none too pleased by his neglectful insult of two of the more heroic men in our ranks.

 

"Real Americans/Middle America" vs. "liberal coasts(aka vast majority of population)"

 

[The Sir]

Reagan also had raised taxes during his eight year term and signed into law a bill that guaranteed the treatment of anyone coming in the ER. What a leftist. He also gave illegals amnesty, clearly he didn't love America. He even appointed a drug czar!

 

He cut the top income tax rate from 70% to 28%. He never raised taxes per se, he just closed loopholes and reduced certain tax breaks. This way he was able to move closer towards a fair flat tax rate while still picking up revenue. I don't want a flat tax because I want to pay less to the government but because I don't see the purpose in punishing the rich for having made more money (and contributed more to the economy and the country). We can start on cutting the overall tax rates once the flat tax part is achieved.

 

And what's wrong with the EMTAL Act? I'd say guaranteeing care is a big element of my rejection of universal healthcare. I want everyone to be treated in the ER, I just expect you to fork over the cash once it's done. US healthcare is the highest quality on the planet (when was the last time someone went to Sweden to beat cancer?), the only problem anyone has with it is that we pay top dollar. I don't think that's a problem...I think that's a case of getting what ya pay for.

 

As for illegal amnesty, he grandfathered a few million into amnesty in return for tighter border controls. It was an attempt to create a definitive end to the illegal immigration problem. It failed, obviously. I don't agree with this, and I don't agree with everything he did. But that doesn't make him a leftist.

[StrangeSox]

The man has shown repeatedly that he will forgo Congress if he thinks he can get away with it.

 

"Unitary executive" didn't start with Obama, though I'll agree with him being pretty terrible about it too!

 

[Balta1701]

Yes, executive orders is what i meant. And even if he only signs half as many as bush, you all decried their use then, yet are silent now. And he IS trying to rule by executive fiat. Can't get labor laws you want passed? Appoint a union stooge to heard the NLRB and just f*ck business from within untouched. Can't convince enough people that globull warming is real? Have the EPA start regulating everything it remotely THINKS it can. Obama has already shown he has no problems going around the legislative process when it suits his agenda. Actions such as those would be lambasted forever under a Republican admin. But hey, Democrats mean well, so all is good.

Dude...it was actually signing statements, not executive orders.

 

And the EPA is actually required by law to regulate co2. The administration has been in violation of th law by not flgettin those regulations out.

 

And the fact that you think climate Change is a giant conspiracy of evil scientists is sad.

[StrangeSox]

climate Chavez is a giant conspiracy of evil scientists

 

[StrangeSox]

And the EPA is actually required by law to regulate co2. The administration has been in violation of th law by not flgettin those regulations out.

 

there's actually a very recent SCOTUS case relating to this that I posted in the enviro thread.

[Balta1701]

F***ing autocorrect

[StrangeSox]

F***ing autocorrect

 

I was making sure that got saved before you could edit!

[BigSqwert]

 

 

 

 

[EvilMonkey]

Dude...it was actually signing statements, not executive orders.

 

And the EPA is actually required by law to regulate co2. The administration has been in violation of th law by not flgettin those regulations out.

 

And the fact that you think climate Change is a giant conspiracy of evil scientists is sad.

Is the EPA also required to put the domestic coal and oil industry out of business? And to screw small to medium size businesses with its new boiler regulations? because that is what they are trying to do. But despite what you type here, he still did 3 of the 4 things the original poster said, which 'couldn't be taken seriously'. The level he did them may be in dispute, but he DID them. So the over-reaction by Sqwert was unfounded, other than in his own biases.

[lostfan]

And? It's a Chicago-centric board, so I expected it to be left wing. I can handle that. We'll probably never agree on anything, but I have my reasons for believing what I believe and they have theirs. I'm convinced that my way is right, and I'm sure they're equally convinced of their way. But if I simply said, "Oh no! My views will be criticized?!" and ran off, well, that'd be a bit cowardly wouldn't it? If your views can't stand a bit of scrutiny, they probably suck.

 

Besides, if I'm ever in the mood to just be coddled and have people say how totally correct I am, I have plenty of conservative boards and blogs that I can retreat to. This is not one of those places, and that's fine.

I can respect that

[lostfan]

This.

 

If anyone like BigSqwert or Russ wants to write off my views as "Tea Party bumper slogans", I don't really care. It's a cheap, weak argument, and me or AD could just as easily write off our opponents' arguments as "liberal hippie bumper slogans". But that would just be dumb.

 

So you can ignore me, but that doesn't change what I said. Obama has bowed before multiple foreign leaders, and that's below the office of President. I know you treat foreign leaders with respect, but bowing shows subservience. JFK realized this when he met the Pope. He did not kiss the Pope's ring because he knew he wasn't meeting the man as a Catholic, but as President of the United States and thus the show of subservience would have been inappropriate. Obama hasn't realized this. Also, personally, I'd say the Saudi king is third world, fundamentalist despot. Regardless, friend or foe, POTUS doesn't bow to him.

 

Just off the top of my head: there's the ICE memo. The DREAM Act was rejected by Congress, so Obama has set out to find other ways. That is unlawful. Then there's the War Powers Act. After crucifying Bush for years on Iraq, Obama flat out ignores the same act to which he tried to hold GWB accountable. And then he comes up with excuses as to why he doesn't have to answer to that act. Oh, and then there was his promise a few weeks ago that gun control was being worked on "under the table". This from Mr. Transparency, mind you. I'd figure he was talking about an attempt to ratify the UN Small Arms Treaty. Gun control from the UN, bypassing Congress and violating our national sovereignty. He should be warned that such an act would be treason, and no conservative I've ever met is going to simply give up their guns and go easily into the night. The man has shown repeatedly that he will forgo Congress if he thinks he can get away with it.

 

You guys write off the insults to a good portion of the American population, but how would you have reacted if Bush had said that some people won't ever vote for him because they are "dirty hippies who cling to their bongs and government assistance"? That wouldn't have gone over well. He can insult my culture and my politics and my belief in American exceptionalism all he wants, but it's not winning me over. And since I doubt many of you are in the military, I assure you, the regular troops are none too pleased by his neglectful insult of two of the more heroic men in our ranks.

 

Oh, and may I just mention his unpresidential pettiness? We can start with him spitting on separation of powers with his State of the Union remark about Citizen's United vs FEC. He's free to disagree with the ruling, but that was totally unbecoming.

I was. FYI

 

I don't really care what "the troops" think... honestly... that's not something you can just flippantly say out loud I know, but really they don't know any more or less than anyone else who's old enough to vote. Some of them just think and act like they do and that their opinion counts for more (the military is FULL of blowhards like this).

[The Sir]

I was. FYI

 

I don't really care what "the troops" think... honestly... that's not something you can just flippantly say out loud I know, but really they don't know any more or less than anyone else who's old enough to vote. Some of them just think and act like they do and that their opinion counts for more (the military is FULL of blowhards like this).

 

That's legit. When were you in? What was your MOS?

 

I wasn't pointing out that most of the posters here probably aren't vets because I was trying to be condescending or put myself on a high horse, if that's how it came across. Most Americans haven't served in the military, and since this board isn't dedicated to vets, I figured it was no different. And I wanted to point out from an insider's view what the consensus was on certain of the president's actions.

 

It might sound really arrogant, but I do give extra consideration to what the troops think. I did so even before I joined up, and I continue to do so now. I won't vote for a president who doesn't have their well being in high regard. And I certainly won't vote for a president who insults them. Just my opinion.

[NorthSideSox72]

That's legit. When were you in? What was your MOS?

 

I wasn't pointing out that most of the posters here probably aren't vets because I was trying to be condescending or put myself on a high horse, if that's how it came across. Most Americans haven't served in the military, and since this board isn't dedicated to vets, I figured it was no different. And I wanted to point out from an insider's view what the consensus was on certain of the president's actions.

 

It might sound really arrogant, but I do give extra consideration to what the troops think. I did so even before I joined up, and I continue to do so now. I won't vote for a president who doesn't have their well being in high regard. And I certainly won't vote for a president who insults them. Just my opinion.

I want to hone in on something here. When did Obama insult the military? And how have Obama's policies been any worse (or better) in treatment of the military than Bush's?

 

[lostfan]

That's legit. When were you in? What was your MOS?

 

I wasn't pointing out that most of the posters here probably aren't vets because I was trying to be condescending or put myself on a high horse, if that's how it came across. Most Americans haven't served in the military, and since this board isn't dedicated to vets, I figured it was no different. And I wanted to point out from an insider's view what the consensus was on certain of the president's actions.

 

It might sound really arrogant, but I do give extra consideration to what the troops think. I did so even before I joined up, and I continue to do so now. I won't vote for a president who doesn't have their well being in high regard. And I certainly won't vote for a president who insults them. Just my opinion.

It's cool. I like you already. lol. Even though we're probably usually going to think opposite things (I did agree with your 2A post the other day, just maybe not as polemically), respecting my point of view or hearing my opinions as valid gets someone a long way with me when I'm talking politics.

 

I was in from February 2001 to February 2008, I was in intel. I still work for the Army, still love the troops of course. I'm just saying though, young Soldiers think they know every f***ing thing about everything and really they don't. It's like the 23 year old college graduate starting conversations by saying "I have a degree and..." before he starts lecturing people on s*** that had nothing to do with whatever his degree program was.