Sox scouting Brandon Beachy

[southsider2k5]

I don't think they would acquire Beltran because that means KW admitting:

 

1) Pierre/Dunn/Rios are failures

2) With Pierre being THE leadoff guy with Ozzie, probably that Dunn or Rios would be sitting the majority of time

3) It puts him closer and closer to declaring Rios a dead weight or anchor

4) Without Viciedo, this team has zero future hitters in the pipeline...would JR sign off on it after the Hudson trade backfired (so far)?

 

Kenny could give a s*** less about admitting failure. He has dealt plenty of guys very quickly if they didn't work out here.

[caulfield12]

The only ones he really dealt or wrote off quickly were Cabrera (who was already a FA) and Swisher.

 

Look how long he held onto Javy.

MacDougal.

Linebrink way too long.

Teahen.

Tony Pena.

Contreras after his last Sox contract.

 

He had dealt guys like Julio Ramirez where there was very little financial risk....D'Angelo Jimenez, Lofton, etc. But very rarely when he's given up something significant in acquiring aforementioned player.

 

And undoubtedly he was backed into a position of weakness where he got the lowest possible return on Swisher after buying at the highest possible value.

 

If he didn't give a shi-, then there was absolutely no reason 4 weeks ago NOT to AT LEAST TRY Viciedo and see if he'd catch fire. Ramirez could have hit leadoff. Pierre's value wouldn't have been affected in the least. In fact, we're not going to get anything for him if he plays everyday for the next 15 days or doesn't play at all.

Edited July 13, 2011 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

The only ones he really dealt or wrote off quickly were Cabrera (who was already a FA) and Swisher.

 

Look how long he held onto Javy.

MacDougal.

Linebrink way too long.

Teahen.

Tony Pena.

Contreras after his last Sox contract.

 

He had dealt guys like Julio Ramirez where there was very little financial risk....D'Angelo Jimenez, Lofton, etc. But very rarely when he's given up something significant in acquiring aforementioned player.

 

And undoubtedly he was backed into a position of weakness where he got the lowest possible return on Swisher after buying at the highest possible value.

 

The top three guys were dumped as quick as humanly possible. MacD even got bought out and released.

[Balta1701]

But...think of your own example with Swisher. KW traded for him at high cost, gave him 4 months, then traded for yet another CF (Griffey) and basically exiled Swisher to the bench.

 

He'll admit that moves fail...the problem then becomes how to piece things together afterwards. Unless Anaheim wants another Toronto OF contract, then that's much harder.

[dyuen]

The only ones he really dealt or wrote off quickly were Cabrera (who was already a FA) and Swisher.

 

Look how long he held onto Javy.

MacDougal.

Linebrink way too long.

Teahen.

Tony Pena.

Contreras after his last Sox contract.

 

He had dealt guys like Julio Ramirez where there was very little financial risk....D'Angelo Jimenez, Lofton, etc. But very rarely when he's given up something significant in acquiring aforementioned player.

 

And undoubtedly he was backed into a position of weakness where he got the lowest possible return on Swisher after buying at the highest possible value.

 

If he didn't give a shi-, then there was absolutely no reason 4 weeks ago to TRY Viciedo and see if he'd catch fire. Ramirez could have hit leadoff. Pierre's value wouldn't have been affected in the least. In fact, we're not going to get anything for him if he plays everyday for the next 15 days or doesn't play at all.

 

Javy was only 3 years and his second year was fairly decent. He gave us a lot of innings but just was awful in big games. Linebrink he kept way too long because he signed him to an awful contract, I am certain he was trying to dump him for a long time. Teahan also has a bad contract or else he would probably be gone. It is not the easiest thing to do to get rid of these bad deals unless you can find a sucker to take them on waivers...

 

[Jordan4life_2007]

If we trade Vicedo (who btw, is not that undisciplined) for Beltran than Im done with the Sox, as much as it would pain me to be that way (atleast until KW is gone).

 

Ditto. It'd be either the Braves, Nationals or Royals for me.

[caulfield12]

The top three guys were dumped as quick as humanly possible. MacD even got bought out and released.

 

 

And MacDougal/Linebrink are the first two times in KW's tenure we admitted a mistake and sent money the other way or just flat-out ate a contract.

 

My argument is that he stuck with those guys forever and gave them way TOO many chances before he cut them loose. At their point, their value collectively was basically less than zero. Well, I guess we saved a couple of million with Linebrink, but we ate the majority of his 2011 deal.

 

He's stuck with Rios over 3 seasons when he's been worse than Brian Anderson for 80% of that time.

Edited July 13, 2011 by caulfield12

[Balta1701]

And MacDougal/Linebrink are the first two times in KW's tenure we admitted a mistake and sent money the other way.

 

My argument is that he stuck with those guys forever and gave them way TOO many chances before he cut them loose. At their point, their value collectively was basically less than zero. Well, I guess we saved a couple of million with Linebrink, but we ate the majority of his 2011 deal.

Cutting guys who are expensive is really quite silly. A couple months of solid production and they might suddenly be moveable. We're going to see that in a few weeks if Beltran gets moved. We saw that last year when somehow Vernon Wells was moved.

[Kyyle23]

The only ones he really dealt or wrote off quickly were Cabrera (who was already a FA) and Swisher.

 

Look how long he held onto Javy.

MacDougal.

Linebrink way too long.

Teahen.

Tony Pena.

Contreras after his last Sox contract.

 

He had dealt guys like Julio Ramirez where there was very little financial risk....D'Angelo Jimenez, Lofton, etc. But very rarely when he's given up something significant in acquiring aforementioned player.

 

And undoubtedly he was backed into a position of weakness where he got the lowest possible return on Swisher after buying at the highest possible value.

 

If he didn't give a shi-, then there was absolutely no reason 4 weeks ago NOT to AT LEAST TRY Viciedo and see if he'd catch fire. Ramirez could have hit leadoff. Pierre's value wouldn't have been affected in the least. In fact, we're not going to get anything for him if he plays everyday for the next 15 days or doesn't play at all.

 

he held on to Javy one year after he had a great year(07). Then he ditched him. MacDougal was up and down from the minors trying to get his head straight. Linebrink and Teahen have contracts that make them pretty hard to move, and Contreras did too.

 

Pena is the only one I agree with

[dyuen]

And MacDougal/Linebrink are the first two times in KW's tenure we admitted a mistake and sent money the other way or just flat-out ate a contract.

 

My argument is that he stuck with those guys forever and gave them way TOO many chances before he cut them loose. At their point, their value collectively was basically less than zero. Well, I guess we saved a couple of million with Linebrink, but we ate the majority of his 2011 deal.

 

He's stuck with Rios over 3 seasons when he's been worse than Brian Anderson for 80% of that time.

what do you want him to do with rios?

his mistake was picking him up not sticking with him

[Balta1701]

what do you want him to do with rios?

his mistake was picking him up not sticking with him

At some level...that 25-5 run last year was sort of a shame...because after the month of May that Rios had last year, June/July was probably a time when he could not only have been traded but moved for a decent return as well.

[dyuen]

At some level...that 25-5 run last year was sort of a shame...because after the month of May that Rios had last year, June/July was probably a time when he could not only have been traded but moved for a decent return as well.

this is 100% correct

[Jordan4life_2007]

At some level...that 25-5 run last year was sort of a shame...because after the month of May that Rios had last year, June/July was probably a time when he could not only have been traded but moved for a decent return as well.

 

This surprises me coming from you. But I totally agree.

[Balta1701]

This surprises me coming from you. But I totally agree.

You may not remember, but the person on this site who was the strongest advocate of trading Rios at the end of May last year was me. I shut up mid-June because I realized we weren't going to be selling anyone, but it's not the first time I've written this.

[GreatScott82]

You may not remember, but the person on this site who was the strongest advocate of trading Rios at the end of May last year was me. I shut up mid-June because I realized we weren't going to be selling anyone, but it's not the first time I've written this.

You were definitley right. Rios has proven to me to be one of the laziest players i have every seen in a white sox uniform. I would love to dump him some how. But we would likely have to eat half the salary.

[Jordan4life_2007]

You may not remember, but the person on this site who was the strongest advocate of trading Rios at the end of May last year was me. I shut up mid-June because I realized we weren't going to be selling anyone, but it's not the first time I've written this.

 

Kudos to you. I remember Ace and Dick Allen being staunch advocates in selling high on Rios. Then Mackowiak, Erstad, Terrerro and Wise images popped into my head and I said f*** that. But in hindsight, yeah, we should've pounced.

Edited July 13, 2011 by Jordan4life

[bigruss]

You may not remember, but the person on this site who was the strongest advocate of trading Rios at the end of May last year was me. I shut up mid-June because I realized we weren't going to be selling anyone, but it's not the first time I've written this.

You could see it even before the all-star break that Rios wasn't going to sustain those numbers. He only had 1 month with an OPS above .800 (and it was a huge month of 1.106).

[bigruss]

Kudos to you. I remember Ace and Dick Allen being staunch advocates in selling high on Rios. Then Mackowiak, Erstad, Terrerro and Wise images popped into my head and I said f*** that. But in hindsight, yeah, we should've pounced.

There were a few of us last offseason trying to say sell high on Rios but too many posters here were shooting us down. I just wanted under that contract and was willing to put up with a below-average replacement player if it meant having those resources available to help elsewhere.

[Balta1701]

There were a few of us last offseason trying to say sell high on Rios but too many posters here were shooting us down. I just wanted under that contract and was willing to put up with a below-average replacement player if it meant having those resources available to help elsewhere.

Personally I still want to see if De Aza can pull anything together. But yeah, he'd be a terrible weakness next to Pierre.

[kitekrazy]

You may not remember, but the person on this site who was the strongest advocate of trading Rios at the end of May last year was me. I shut up mid-June because I realized we weren't going to be selling anyone, but it's not the first time I've written this.

 

Isn't it rare tho in baseball for trade to be made that early?

 

[southsider2k5]

Isn't it rare tho in baseball for trade to be made that early?

 

Usually mid-June is about the earliest you see any real deals happen. After the ASB is when things really get moving.

[bigruss]

Isn't it rare tho in baseball for trade to be made that early?

It is rare, but that doesn't make it a bad choice to do so in certain circumstances.

[kitekrazy]

You were definitley right. Rios has proven to me to be one of the laziest players i have every seen in a white sox uniform. I would love to dump him some how. But we would likely have to eat half the salary.

 

Kenny's always a sucker for physical skills and think this organization can fix their mental aspect. I wouldn't be surprised if they draft them this way too. I have hopes Al Davis will give Kenny a call and then there could be trade negotiations where we could get a SS (strong safety) for Kenny.

 

[elrockinMT]

I was looking over some of the rumor sites and I see where the Atlanta rumor included the possibility the Braves might be interested in Juan Pierre? Now I know we need a lead off guy, but apaprntly this auithor thinks the Braves do also. His question is whterh the Braves would be willing to give up the young Beachy or the more expensive Lowe for Pierre. Trading JP would open up the spot for Viciedo, who we would all like to see up with the big club. Quentin obviously has been mentioned, but I just can't see that as more than idle specualtion. The rumor mill even says the Sox may not be really looking at any moves. The struggles of Rios and Dunn have pretty much hamstrung our ability to make a trade. Plus if they could ever get it going that would be as good as two trades IMO. I know this is alot of rehash, but the idea of Atlanta maybe being willing to tak Juan Pierre was intersting as I hadn't heard that before.

 

 

[Eminor3rd]

I was looking over some of the rumor sites and I see where the Atlanta rumor included the possibility the Braves might be interested in Juan Pierre? Now I know we need a lead off guy, but apaprntly this auithor thinks the Braves do also. His question is whterh the Braves would be willing to give up the young Beachy or the more expensive Lowe for Pierre. Trading JP would open up the spot for Viciedo, who we would all like to see up with the big club. Quentin obviously has been mentioned, but I just can't see that as more than idle specualtion. The rumor mill even says the Sox may not be really looking at any moves. The struggles of Rios and Dunn have pretty much hamstrung our ability to make a trade. Plus if they could ever get it going that would be as good as two trades IMO. I know this is alot of rehash, but the idea of Atlanta maybe being willing to tak Juan Pierre was intersting as I hadn't heard that before.

 

I think the JP thing came up mid-thread. It certainly would be hilarious if they did want him, and I'd take absolutely anything of value to get rid of him. I just don't see Lowe being less valuable to the Braves ROS than Pierre. Obviously we wouldn't get any A or even B pitching prospects for him. If they want to dump Lowe and/or McLouth though, I'm all for it, if for no other reason than it gives us more depth to dump some more valuable guys after our upcoming 8 game losing streak.