Sox scouting Brandon Beachy

[Jordan4life_2007]

You might if you're just one hitter away and you feel you have 3 even better arms in the minors.

 

It all depends on how they feel internally about Beachy's top ceiling. Obviously last year, Hudson wouldn't have been traded if Cooper/KW felt Hudson would be able to be a #1-2 starter for the White Sox.

 

And they'd have Quentin for at least 1 1/3rd seasons, not unlike the Jackson trade.

 

If you look at the stats for Heyward and Schafer, they're way down.

 

I just don't see it. Beachy, though it's only been 11 starts, looks the part to me. His peripheral stats are outstanding. The Braves don't operate as the White Sox do. The Braves are in a similar situation as we are, at least offensively. They just need guys like Uggla and Heyward to do what they do. CQ is not going to put them over the top against Philly and their rotation from hell. I could actually see them going after a guy like Matt Kemp. They certainly have the assets.

[southsider2k5]

As much as you "strike while the iron is hot" when it comes to trading CQ, the Sox really can't afford to remove his bat from the lineup with the mediocreness that their hitting has shown this season.

 

Exactly. Unless they fall apart in the next three weeks, TCQ is about as untradable of a guy as we have right now.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

I would really, really like to have Beachy. And also Really, REALLY like to have Viciedo on this team. I'll sacrifice losing my Quentin jersey for all of that.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I would really, really like to have Beachy. And also Really, REALLY like to have Viciedo on this team. I'll sacrifice losing my Quentin jersey for all of that.

 

Beachy might be the ace on this team. I'd praise KW if he could pull this off. Risky? Yes. Because Viciedo would have to produce at a level similar to CQ to totally justify it. But a dirt cheap Beachy over the next few years and team-controlled for the next five would be sweet.

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

Rios for Lowe is a horrible, horrible idea. No matter how poor he has played this year, trading a much younger multi-talented CFer at his lowest point for an old NL starter, when you don't even need starting pitching, is ridiculous.

 

As for Quentin, I don't see why Kenny would make that deal. Not now. We need that bat, and no matter how much he wants to pander to Ozzie, he's more loyal to Reinsdorf than anything else, and he cares more about winning than pleasing Ozzie. Pierre is getting a long leash, but if Kenny needs Dayan up here then either he goes or both he and Rios see big drops in playing time.

 

I would definitely shop Lillibridge now though. Makes too much sense not to. Does someone out there think he can be a starter, or at least a UT man who gets starters' playing time?

 

Also, De Aza has nothing on Pierre. I'm far from a Pierre fan, but whatever De Aza is hitting in Charlotte, it doesn't matter. Pierre has tons of MLB experience and De Aza has virtually none. IMO there's really no reason for either of them to be here even in spite of some of Juan's recent heroics, but if there had to be just one, it is Pierre by a mile.

 

I think Kenny is probably shopping Jackson, i.e. a half year of a #3 type pitcher with an ace ceiling + guaranteed Type A comp in the offseason, with the reality being that Borass likely steers Jackson to a contender in the bottom-15, which means a first and a supplemental first. That is worth an excellent haul and should bring in exactly what we really need, which in my eyes is bullpen help. Rios and Dunn simply aren't this bad and the offense should improve as the summer goes on like it always does, however the bullpen should be expected to fade a bit later on and it is very weak at the front.

 

But if we do address the offense then I would like to see us do something along the lines of the Bourn deal, because that at least replaces a weak link that can't be reasonably expected to strengthen over time, meaning Pierre. Otherwise, I am not sure there's a fit out there. Any deal we make, it needs to make us better in August and September, not just right now in the first week of July. And as far as moving Teahen - dear God I cannot believe I am going to say this - but I like Teahen's bat off the bench in the postseason, and since we'll have to eat pretty much all of that thing, I'd rather have the PH.

[caulfield12]

ooops, wrong thread again

Edited July 6, 2011 by caulfield12

[knightni]

Bourn won't stay in Chicago long term. He'll be back in Houston when his contract runs out. He's a native of there.

[Eminor3rd]

I'd trade CQ for Bourn in a heartbeat. Bourn is dirt cheap, CQ is about to be $10m player. Viciedo doesn't have to be CQ for this team to be good - Dunn needs to be Dunn and Rios needs to be Rios. If those guys are good, and Viciedo is 70% of CQ, and you replace Pierre with Bourn, you have a WAY better team. If Dunn/Rios/Beckham stay bad, the team isn't going to win either way.

 

Think about 2012. Without CQ, MB, EJ, and JP, there's like $40m off the books. Jerry won't put us at $127m again, but he'll sure as hell put us at $100m. Now imagine the above scenario with $15m or so for KW to spend on FA.

[SoxAce]

It just personally sickens me to even hear of one of our better hitters on the team (injury prone or not) and one of our best OBP guys we have being traded so Juan Pierre can stick around in LF... for half a season. (hopefully half) At least this does show KW making a mistake from the Hudson deal to get another young, cost controlled arm for a few seasons (who probably has better upside as well) in Beachy if it's true. I'd much prefer Rios gone though by some miracle.

[caulfield12]

I'd trade CQ for Bourn in a heartbeat. Bourn is dirt cheap, CQ is about to be $10m player. Viciedo doesn't have to be CQ for this team to be good - Dunn needs to be Dunn and Rios needs to be Rios. If those guys are good, and Viciedo is 70% of CQ, and you replace Pierre with Bourn, you have a WAY better team. If Dunn/Rios/Beckham stay bad, the team isn't going to win either way.

 

Think about 2012. Without CQ, MB, EJ, and JP, there's like $40m off the books. Jerry won't put us at $127m again, but he'll sure as hell put us at $100m. Now imagine the above scenario with $15m or so for KW to spend on FA.

 

 

Except who are you going to get to replace Mark Buehrle and Jackson?

 

Our rotation next year is going to be at least one starter short, assuming Peavy stays healthy. There's at least a 50/50 chance he isn't healthy again coming into 2012.

 

So that's potentially 2 starters. And that Humber continues to pitch like a frontline starter instead of a journeyman/AAAA/filler pitcher.

[lasttriptotulsa]

Except who are you going to get to replace Mark Buehrle and Jackson?

 

Our rotation next year is going to be at least one starter short, assuming Peavy stays healthy. There's at least a 50/50 chance he isn't healthy again coming into 2012.

 

So that's potentially 2 starters. And that Humber continues to pitch like a frontline starter instead of a journeyman/AAAA/filler pitcher.

 

I'm thinking that Buehrle will be re-signed. To me next years rotation will look like this: Buehrle, Peavy, Floyd, Danks, Humber. That is unless they can move Danks. If that happens, maybe Sale will get his shot.

[Eminor3rd]

Except who are you going to get to replace Mark Buehrle and Jackson?

 

Our rotation next year is going to be at least one starter short, assuming Peavy stays healthy. There's at least a 50/50 chance he isn't healthy again coming into 2012.

 

So that's potentially 2 starters. And that Humber continues to pitch like a frontline starter instead of a journeyman/AAAA/filler pitcher.

 

In theory, it would be Danks/Peavy/Floyd/Humber/Sale. But if MB/EJ/JP/CQ are gone, they'd have a chunk of change to sign another SP if they needed.

[caulfield12]

In theory, it would be Danks/Peavy/Floyd/Humber/Sale. But if MB/EJ/JP/CQ are gone, they'd have a chunk of change to sign another SP if they needed.

 

 

I can't access Kalapse's payroll resource, but I wouldn't count my chickens before they're hatched on this one.

 

For example, AJ will make $4 million more next season, compared to this season. Danks will be getting a substantial arbitration raise. Peavy will go up by $1 million. Dunn will go up by $2 million. Floyd does up by $2 million. Teahen $750,000. Crain, $500,000. Thornton goes up $2.5 million. Ramirez. $3.9 million as long-term extension kicks in. Viciedo $1.25 million, etc. Ohman, $1 million raise.

 

So let's just put that at around $21 million.

 

 

So we're paying Pierre in actuality $5 million because of the subsidy from LA. Quentin at $5 million. Buehrle $14 and EJ, $8.35.

 

That's $32.5 million.

 

 

 

So the next difference is actually only $11.5 million to keep the same SKY HIGH, RECORD PAYROLL.

 

ASSUMING JR IS EVEN WILLING TO DO SO.

 

If nothing else, it seems more and more clear that Quentin might be the odd man out just for payroll purposes, along with Mr. Danks, because he will bring us the highest return in trade AND he's getting more and more expensive (although still a bargain).

 

 

What that $11.5 million PROBABLY represents is the money that will used to bring back Buehrle. If not used, it will be cut from the payroll, which is probably a reasonable assumption if we don't make the playoffs again this season.

 

This leaves DeAza as your new leftfielder (Lillibridge, Jordan Danks and Lastings Milledge will all figure in) and leadoff hitter (replacing Pierre) and Viciedo in RF.

 

Whoever they get back for Danks and Quentin will be used to plug the gaps in the starting rotation, especially if Buehrle doesn't return.

 

EDIT: We're wasting another $3.5 million on Linebrink, and I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that they don't bring back Vizquel at $1.75 million. They'll need a back-up catcher, so I won't give you that $1.2 million for Castro.

 

In the end, that's $17 million. But still a payroll in the $105-110 million range (and this doesn't include raises for the likes of Humber, Beckham, Santos, Lillibridge and Sale, for example). I'll give you a final $1.6 million for Tony Pena.

 

$18.6 million. But I'll bet you $9-12 million goes to bring back Mark Buehrle and that's all we spend in the offseason. KW will have to trade Quentin/Danks to get our new impact players for 2012, along with bringing in DeAza and Viciedo to replace Pierre and CQ.

Edited July 6, 2011 by caulfield12

[Eminor3rd]

Yeah. Looks like one more chance for Dunn/Rios/Beckham to play well before rebuild time.

[dyuen]

EDIT: We're wasting another $3.5 million on Linebrink, and I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that they don't bring back Vizquel at $1.75 million. They'll need a back-up catcher, so I won't give you that $1.2 million for Castro.

 

In the end, that's $17 million. But still a payroll in the $105-110 million range (and this doesn't include raises for the likes of Humber, Beckham, Santos, Lillibridge and Sale, for example). I'll give you a final $1.6 million for Tony Pena.

 

$18.6 million. But I'll bet you $9-12 million goes to bring back Mark Buehrle and that's all we spend in the offseason. KW will have to trade Quentin/Danks to get our new impact players for 2012, along with bringing in DeAza and Viciedo to replace Pierre and CQ.

 

Flowers will be the backup catcher for league minimum. You have to hope Mark doesn't get more on the market.

[caulfield12]

Flowers will be the backup catcher for league minimum. You have to hope Mark doesn't get more on the market.

 

 

Doesn't seem anyone who's around the team is convinced it's a good idea to have AJ and Flowers together on the same roster.

 

AJ hasn't shown any inclination to give up the position or "mentor" Tyler on the nuances of the game.

 

Just have to wait and see. If they're struggling at the end of this month, they might think about trading him instead of being on the hook for that contract in 2012.

[LittleHurt05]

Doesn't seem anyone who's around the team is convinced it's a good idea to have AJ and Flowers together on the same roster.

 

AJ hasn't shown any inclination to give up the position or "mentor" Tyler on the nuances of the game.

 

Just have to wait and see. If they're struggling at the end of this month, they might think about trading him instead of being on the hook for that contract in 2012.

 

When he has shown that? Did something happen during spring training? Has AJ ever come out and said I refuse to help this young catcher?

[southsider2k5]

When he has shown that? Did something happen during spring training? Has AJ ever come out and said I refuse to help this young catcher?

 

What about AJ would tell you that he would help?

[LittleHurt05]

What about AJ would tell you that he would help?

 

What about AJ would tell me that he wouldn't help? There all the rumors out there, but he still appears to be a good teammate, I don't think everyone hates him as much as people always like to infer.

 

Would AJ be happy playing 60 games, while Flowers plays 100? Absolutely not. But if AJ kept his normal 120-130 game workload, while Flowers played the rest, I could definitely see AJ helping the kid out, he will be in a contract year anyway.

[southsider2k5]

What about AJ would tell me that he wouldn't help? There all the rumors out there, but he still appears to be a good teammate, I don't think everyone hates him as much as people always like to infer.

 

Would AJ be happy playing 60 games, while Flowers plays 100? Absolutely not. But if AJ kept his normal 120-130 game workload, while Flowers played the rest, I could definitely see AJ helping the kid out, he will be in a contract year anyway.

 

AJ does not seem like the type to train his replacement. Not to me anyway.

[dyuen]

Doesn't seem anyone who's around the team is convinced it's a good idea to have AJ and Flowers together on the same roster.

 

AJ hasn't shown any inclination to give up the position or "mentor" Tyler on the nuances of the game.

 

Just have to wait and see. If they're struggling at the end of this month, they might think about trading him instead of being on the hook for that contract in 2012.

absolutely not true

[LittleHurt05]

AJ does not seem like the type to train his replacement. Not to me anyway.

 

Would AJ spend 100% of his time training Tyler? No. However, I do think that the would help the kid out and teach him some stuff, Caulfield made it seem like they couldn't even be on the same roster. There are definitely other players out there that would be much better veteran players to follow, but I don't think AJP would just ignore a younger kid.

[fathom]

absolutely not true

 

People need to pay more attention to what you say

[BigSqwert]

People need to pay more attention to what you say

The problem is he rarely says anything. We need more doc!

[dyuen]

People need to pay more attention to what you say

one of those people being KW!!