bigruss Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Jul 7, 2011 -> 02:38 PM) He's hit a number of clutch, game-winning hits recently that should have made up for some of the games he's lost with his glove. Pshhh, if he hit better earlier in the game those "clutch" hits shouldn't even have to occur. Player A: 2-4 with a double and 2 RBI's Player B: 1-5, RBI Give me the guy who produces throughout the game rather than some s***ty plate appearances that leads to us having to come back again to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Jul 7, 2011 -> 08:36 PM) Honestly, name one thing that is positive out of Pierre? And a legit positive, not some bulls*** that he's raised his OBP a tad while it's still sitting at a s***ty number. I think Hibbard has listed a lot of positives. He's done a great job of making an argument that Pierre isn't the devil. We get it. Juan is terrible. I want him batting ninth, but I also want Morel, Becks, Rios, Dunn and the Lexi of late batting ninth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 7, 2011 -> 02:41 PM) I think Hibbard has listed a lot of positives. He's done a great job of making an argument that Pierre isn't the devil. We get it. Juan is terrible. I want him batting ninth, but I also want Morel, Becks, Rios, Dunn and the Lexi of late batting ninth. Im not putting all the blame on Pierre, but he's a guy you can actually do something about!! Don't you guys see that!? We have a young guy, who is immensely talented at the plate (and his defense has been adequate this season with a cannon of an arm) ready to take his place, and we don't have a huge commitment to Pierre financially. It's like your refusing to eat your prime rib (that you already bought) because you've also already paid for your Arby's sandwich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted July 7, 2011 Author Share Posted July 7, 2011 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Jul 7, 2011 -> 02:41 PM) Pshhh, if he hit better earlier in the game those "clutch" hits shouldn't even have to occur. Player A: 2-4 with a double and 2 RBI's Player B: 1-5, RBI Give me the guy who produces throughout the game rather than some s***ty plate appearances that leads to us having to come back again to win. He won three games in a row with game-winning hits, and you're looking for a reason to criticize even that. What point is there in further discussion? I'm sorry, but looking for reasons to criticize game-winning hits is unreal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted July 7, 2011 Author Share Posted July 7, 2011 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Jul 7, 2011 -> 02:44 PM) Im not putting all the blame on Pierre, but he's a guy you can actually do something about!! Don't you guys see that!? We have a young guy, who is immensely talented at the plate (and his defense has been adequate this season with a cannon of an arm) ready to take his place, and we don't have a huge commitment to Pierre financially. It's like your refusing to eat your prime rib (that you already bought) because you've also already paid for your Arby's sandwich. Except that 100 PAs at this level isn't nearly enough to project a career on, nor is 13 bad games in April enough to end a player's tenure with a professional organization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Jul 7, 2011 -> 08:44 PM) Im not putting all the blame on Pierre, but he's a guy you can actually do something about!! Don't you guys see that!? We have a young guy, who is immensely talented at the plate (and his defense has been adequate this season with a cannon of an arm) ready to take his place, and we don't have a huge commitment to Pierre financially. It's like your refusing to eat your prime rib (that you already bought) because you've also already paid for your Arby's sandwich. QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Jul 7, 2011 -> 08:45 PM) He won three games in a row with game-winning hits, and you're looking for a reason to criticize even that. What point is there in further discussion? I'm sorry, but looking for reasons to criticize game-winning hits is unreal. 1.) I would rather see Dayan out there over Pierre. I just get sick of the Pierre negativity when it should be equal opportunity negativity with our horrid offense. 2.) Those 3 games are about the only three we've won lately as well aside from balkgate. There really is no point in further discussion of Juan. People had their minds made up a long time ago. He's Mr. Slappy and easy to hate, though that one homer of his was fun to watch. He tattooed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Jul 7, 2011 -> 03:38 PM) He's hit a number of clutch, game-winning hits recently that should have made up for some of the games he's lost with his glove. Yes, there's no denying that, but if you honestly think he's more of a sure thing to help us than Viciedo from this point forward...well, to me that's being either ignorant or stubborn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted July 7, 2011 Author Share Posted July 7, 2011 QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Jul 7, 2011 -> 03:00 PM) Yes, there's no denying that, but if you honestly think he's more of a sure thing to help us than Viciedo from this point forward...well, to me that's being either ignorant or stubborn. So Viciedo is definitely going to hit major league pitching without any struggles. Interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Jul 7, 2011 -> 03:02 PM) So Viciedo is definitely going to hit major league pitching without any struggles. Interesting. In his stint last year the answer was yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jul 7, 2011 -> 03:02 PM) In his stint last year the answer was yes. Yup, and like I said earlier: Viciedo's Struggles > Pierre playing "well" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jul 7, 2011 -> 09:02 PM) In his stint last year the answer was yes. I thought Dayan had a big oh-fer near the end of the experiment. Didn't he have a massive slump in there? I still want him on the team now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted July 7, 2011 Author Share Posted July 7, 2011 (edited) In Gordon Beckham's first 196 PAs, he hit .302/.368/.465/.833 Over his next 1028 PAs, he's hit roughly .240/.305/.340/.645 I don't need to tell you guys that it's not exactly rare for a hitter to come up and initially light up pitching before the league can adjust to him This happens with pitchers as well. Edited July 7, 2011 by Greg Hibbard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Jul 7, 2011 -> 09:13 PM) In Gordon Beckham's first 196 PAs, he hit .302/.368/.465/.833 Over his next 1028 PAs, he's hit roughly .240/.305/.340/.645 I don't need to tell you guys that it's not exactly rare for a hitter to come up and initially light up pitching before the league can adjust to him This happens with pitchers as well. Beckham has been an out machine. He's no better than Getz right now. Maybe he'll get it going the second half. Edited July 7, 2011 by greg775 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted July 7, 2011 Author Share Posted July 7, 2011 (edited) Another guy who hit well over his first 250 PAs is Joe Crede - .277/.305/.466/.771 He was basically a .245 avg/.725 OPS guy for the rest of his career. Edited July 7, 2011 by Greg Hibbard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Jul 7, 2011 -> 04:02 PM) So Viciedo is definitely going to hit major league pitching without any struggles. Interesting. Well according to you Pierre is definitely going to get better And I definitely was implying he was more of a sure thing than Pierre. The word "definite" or any insinuation of was not present in what I said Edited July 7, 2011 by ChiSox_Sonix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sircaffey Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Definitely mediocre or definitely below average isn't helping this squad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted July 7, 2011 Author Share Posted July 7, 2011 I think there's an 80% chance Pierre hits .275 or better this season. I have no idea if Viciedo will hit .300, .250, or .200. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Can we also just blatantly ignore the fact that Pierre has cost us 3 ballgames directly because of his glove work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 lol@Kalapse. Well, the mods/admins wanted a little more substance than "Juan Pierre sucks," and he's provided just that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted July 20, 2011 Author Share Posted July 20, 2011 .291/.359/.351/.710 with 10/14 sb since May 1st when are people finally going to admit Ozzie might have been right about something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 12:14 PM) .291/.359/.351/.710 with 10/14 sb since May 1st when are people finally going to admit Ozzie might have been right about something When you admit that you are dating Pierre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 .710 OPS, 71% on stolen bases. Yeah, that's irreplaceable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted July 20, 2011 Author Share Posted July 20, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 11:19 AM) .710 OPS, 71% on stolen bases. Yeah, that's irreplaceable. I'm not sure why you would evaluate a leadoff hitter by emphasizing a statistic that equates his slugging with his on base percentage when one is clearly more important than the other within the scope of our offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 12:19 PM) .710 OPS, 71% on stolen bases. Yeah, that's irreplaceable. It's not irreplaceable, obviously, but there's more to complain about than Juan Pierre. He's gotten himself going and has not been an issue as we remain torturously close to the top of the division but are going nowhere because we have two worthless, much higher paid players on the roster than Juan Pierre. I'm going to "tip my cap" to Juan, because at least he's contributing now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlackSox8 Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 12:33 PM) It's not irreplaceable, obviously, but there's more to complain about than Juan Pierre. He's gotten himself going and has not been an issue as we remain torturously close to the top of the division but are going nowhere because we have two worthless, much higher paid players on the roster than Juan Pierre. I'm going to "tip my cap" to Juan, because at least he's contributing now. yeah....the feeling of disgust was there over a month ago for Pierre....but now it has focused on Dunn and Rios. Pierre has redeemed himself in my eyes....I would still love to see Viciedo up however, just replacing somebody else. Edited July 20, 2011 by onedude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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