Jerry must be so proud

[bmags]

A common line when people were participating in white flight was "I don't care if they work with me or can go anywhere, I just don't want to live next to em (black people)". Was that racist?

[BigSqwert]

A common line when people were participating in white flight was "I don't care if they work with me or can go anywhere, I just don't want to live next to em (black people)". Was that racist?

Not at all. It was just their opinion.

[StrangeSox]

So whenever you think something is wrong you're automatically discriminating? Really? It's that black and white?

 

Uh, yeah, when you think an entire minority population is morally inferior because of who they are, that's discrimination.

[StrangeSox]

We could just wait for him to explain his stances on DADT, DOMA, gay equality/anti-discrimination laws and gay marriage rights, though.

[Jenksismyhero]

Uh, yeah, when you think an entire minority population is morally inferior because of who they are, that's discrimination.

 

Discrimination requires an act. Otherwise it's just an opinion.

 

What about people that find homosexuality a sin and totally wrong, yet they don't believe in discrimination or inequality, etc. Still bigotry/discrimination?

[Jordan4life_2007]

Strange, you seem to have selective reading comprehension. At no point did I suggest that people should stay in the closet. If that's who you are, fine. Balta said that the reason people are afraid to come out is because of opinions such as mine (i.e me saying I'd be ashamed if my son turned out to be gay). My response was that if you choose such an abnormal way of life, you have to be prepared to what goes along with that. And me not wanting to be anywhere near a situation where gay sex was taking place is not me being a bigot. If I go to a video store and rent a Jenna Jameson porn, get to my crib to pop it in and turns out they accidentally gave me gay porn? You think I'm going to sit and watch? I'm takin' that s*** back ASAP and demand free videos for a month. That's what I'd equate it to. Same thing. If that's what you want to do? Fine. I'm not sticking around. That's all I'm saying.

[StrangeSox]

Discrimination requires an act. Otherwise it's just an opinion.

 

What about people that find homosexuality a sin and totally wrong, yet they don't believe in discrimination or inequality, etc. Still bigotry/discrimination?

 

Thinking is an act. Holding views that homosexuality is shameful and totally wrong are going to shape your views on public policy re gay rights and social acceptance of homosexuality. This is what I was getting at with the ridiculous "round them up" standard for discrimination. Discrimination can be subtle, even subconscious but still pervasive and powerful.

 

Regardless of your broader (and meaningful) question, he still advocated for gays, or at least his own child, staying in the closet to prevent shaming their parents. I can't imagine a definition of discrimination that doesn't include that.

[BigSqwert]

if you choose such an abnormal way of life, you have to be prepared to what goes along with that.

You're right. So many teenagers make the decision to start being attracted to the opposite sex which in turn gets them ostracized & ridiculed by friends and even family, eventually causing an alarming amount of them to commit suicide. Strange that they make such a choice knowing it comes with those repercussions.

Edited July 12, 2011 by BigSqwert

[Steve9347]

And me not wanting to be anywhere near a situation where gay sex was taking place is not me being a bigot.

The fact that you think gay men want to have sex near you, or even think that's a valid or reasonable scenario, just shows that your view of gay men is ridiculous.

 

If I go to a video store and rent a Jenna Jameson porn, get to my crib to pop it in and turns out they accidentally gave me gay porn? You think I'm going to sit and watch? I'm takin' that s*** back ASAP and demand free videos for a month. That's what I'd equate it to. Same thing. If that's what you want to do? Fine. I'm not sticking around. That's all I'm saying.

Everyone is dumber for having read that.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Thinking is an act. Holding views that homosexuality is shameful and totally wrong are going to shape your views on public policy re gay rights and social acceptance of homosexuality. This is what I was getting at with the ridiculous "round them up" standard for discrimination. Discrimination can be subtle, even subconscious but still pervasive and powerful.

 

Regardless of your broader (and meaningful) question, he still advocated for gays, or at least his own child, staying in the closet to prevent shaming their parents. I can't imagine a definition of discrimination that doesn't include that.

 

And you're naive if you don't think 99% of fathers or future fathers don't agree with me. I just come out and say it without trying to look like a nice guy. If I came home one day and saw my 6-year old son kissing another 6-year old boy, I'd go f***ing apes***. I'm not going to try to be understanding. I'm gonna be like WTF is going on and attempt to put an end to it immediately. Anybody who disagrees, I'm going to pull a Balta, you're lying to me and yourself.

[bmags]

And you're naive if you don't think 99% of fathers or future fathers don't agree with me. I just come out and say it without trying to look like a nice guy. If I came home one day and saw my 6-year old son kissing another 6-year old boy, I'd go f***ing apes***. I'm not going to try to be understanding. I'm gonna be like WTF is going on and attempt to put an end to it immediately. Anybody who disagrees, I'm going to pull a Balta, you're lying to me and yourself.

No, we're not lying. While I have a problem with kids kissing each other that young, there is nothing abnormal or wrong about being gay. I'd love my son for who he is.

[Steve9347]

And you're naive if you don't think 99% of fathers or future fathers don't agree with me. I just come out and say it without trying to look like a nice guy. If I came home one day and saw my 6-year old son kissing another 6-year old boy, I'd go f***ing apes***. I'm not going to try to be understanding. I'm gonna be like WTF is going on and attempt to put an end to it immediately. Anybody who disagrees, I'm going to pull a Balta, you're lying to me and yourself.

First, with all of your examples, the 6 year old boy kissing another is ridiculous, and there's no telling why said 6 year old would be doing something, heck the kid could be trying to be funny. At age 6, it's very impossible to take anything from said act.

 

There are so many more important things in my future fatherhood for me to worry about, that if my future son told me he was gay I sincerely doubt I'd be disappointed. The fact that he shared that information with me would actually simply be indisputable proof that I did a great job raising him.

Edited July 12, 2011 by Steve9347

[StrangeSox]

Strange, you seem to have selective reading comprehension. At no point did I suggest that people should stay in the closet. If that's who you are, fine.

 

Sorry, pronouns unclear here, I was referring to FlySox who said he'd want his son to stay in the closet rather than shaming him.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jordan4life_2007]

The fact that you think gay men want to have sex near you, or even think that's a valid or reasonable scenario, just shows that your view of gay men is ridiculous.

 

 

Everyone is dumber for having read that.

 

I don't know what's hard to understand. I'm not saying that gays just jump each other's bones in front of anybody and everybody. I was just creating a scenario in which I hypothetically lived with a gay guy. I would have to expect that he would bring guys home or have a BF and do what people in relationships do. All I'm saying is I couldn't be there while this was taking place. It doesn't have to be right in front of me. That doesn't make me anti-gay.

[StrangeSox]

And you're naive if you don't think 99% of fathers or future fathers don't agree with me. I just come out and say it without trying to look like a nice guy. If I came home one day and saw my 6-year old son kissing another 6-year old boy, I'd go f***ing apes***. I'm not going to try to be understanding. I'm gonna be like WTF is going on and attempt to put an end to it immediately. Anybody who disagrees, I'm going to pull a Balta, you're lying to me and yourself.

 

You're going to have to back that 99% up, though I'd break up 6 yo's kissing too regardless of gender.

 

You're going to scare your child and teach them to be afraid of being themselves. It'll result in a lot of emotional issues and they won't have their family to work it out with. Again, I'll confidently say it was never, ever an issue that my brother was gay with my family. There was no big "coming out" discussion.

[Jordan4life_2007]

First, with all of your examples, the 6 year old boy kissing another is ridiculous, and there's no telling why said 6 year old would be doing something, heck the kid could be trying to be funny. At age 6, it's very impossible to take anything from said act.

 

There are so many more important things in my future fatherhood for me to worry about, that if my future son told me he was gay I sincerely doubt I'd be disappointed. The fact that he shared that information with me would actually simply be indisputable proof that I did a great job raising him.

 

If you or anybody else were able to accept it, good for you. I'm not going to vilify those that would have it, or think they would have it, in them to do that. I couldn't do it.

[Steve9347]

I don't know what's hard to understand. I'm not saying that gays just jump each other's bones in front of anybody and everybody. I was just creating a scenario in which I hypothetically lived with a gay guy. I would have to expect that he would bring guys home or have a BF and do what people in relationships do. All I'm saying is I couldn't be there while this was taking place. It doesn't have to be right in front of me. That doesn't make me anti-gay.

Your point is moot. You have no point is basically what you are saying. How is that scenario with gay men different from that scenario with a man and a woman? It's uncomfortable being around other PEOPLE having sex, not other MEN.

 

This is where you must define yourself as having a problem with gay people, which you started out saying you did not.

[StrangeSox]

I don't know what's hard to understand. I'm not saying that gays just jump each other's bones in front of anybody and everybody. I was just creating a scenario in which I hypothetically lived with a gay guy. I would have to expect that he would bring guys home or have a BF and do what people in relationships do. All I'm saying is I couldn't be there while this was taking place. It doesn't have to be right in front of me. That doesn't make me anti-gay.

 

Not wanting to overhear gay sex doesn't make you anti-gay. It's the rest of your posts and the way you're characterizing homosexuality and homosexuals that do.

[StrangeSox]

If you or anybody else were able to accept it, good for you. I'm not going to vilify those that would have it, or think they would have it, in them to do that. I couldn't do it.

 

Therefore, you have a very serious problem with homosexuality.

 

Stop lying to yourself and maybe you could learn to overcome it.

[bmags]

I really hope you do live with a gay person J4L, you'd probably soon be on our side. Plus you'd probably go to a lot of fun parties.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Your point is moot. You have no point is basically what you are saying. How is that scenario with gay men different from that scenario with a man and a woman? It's uncomfortable being around other PEOPLE having sex, not other MEN.

 

This is where you must define yourself as having a problem with gay people, which you started out saying you did not.

 

The act of gay sex grosses me out. Yes, just that visual makes me sick to my stomach. That doesn't mean I couldn't interact or live my life among other gay people.

[StrangeSox]

I really hope you do live with a gay person J4L, you'd probably soon be on our side. Plus you'd probably go to a lot of fun parties.

 

I spent the night before my wedding with my fiance and brother at a Batman-themed drag show in San Juan, everyone else was jealous we didn't wake them to go!

[Steve9347]

A common line when people were participating in white flight was "I don't care if they work with me or can go anywhere, I just don't want to live next to em (black people)". Was that racist?

I don't get how J4L could read this post and not realize how ridiculous his "stance" is and try to work to better himself and his opinions for him and his future child who could very well wind up gay and shunned by his father.

[Jenksismyhero]

You're going to have to back that 99% up, though I'd break up 6 yo's kissing too regardless of gender.

 

You're going to scare your child and teach them to be afraid of being themselves. It'll result in a lot of emotional issues and they won't have their family to work it out with. Again, I'll confidently say it was never, ever an issue that my brother was gay with my family. There was no big "coming out" discussion.

 

99% is probably high, but I bet if you did a poll the vast, vast majority would agree that they would hope that their kid was not gay, regardless of their views on homosexuality and regardless of how they think they'd act as a parent in that situation. Fact of the matter is that life is incredibly difficult and parents (or people who want to be parents) want their kids to live the easiest life possible.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I don't get how J4L could read this post and not realize how ridiculous his "stance" is and try to work to better himself and his opinions for him and his future child who could very well wind up gay and shunned by his father.

 

I did read it. And I thought nothing of it. I don't equate me not wanting to be anywhere near gay sex to a white man not wanting to live next to a black man.