Jerry must be so proud

[Jordan4life_2007]

He had a point that he'd be disappointed as a father if his child turned out to be gay and implied that any 'real' man would be disappointed as well.

 

You can have a point, but that point can be terrible.

 

I took it is him saying that no straight man on this planet would want to bring a son into the world with aspirations of him eventually turning gay. I agree with that totally. Can one eventually accept it? Sure. But no father initially would want that for their son. And I would have to imagine that even if one's father did accept it, it'd eat away at him on the inside for eternity.

Edited July 12, 2011 by Jordan4life

[Dick Allen]

And I regret the time that I did it to this day. One of the worst things that came out of my mouth.

When I was a little kid we called each other those names and we didn't even know was a homsexual was or a straight person was. Clearly they are words or names tied into the gay community, but people throwing them out there aren't necessarily putting down gay people when using them.

 

If Ozzie calls Marriotti a f**, he gets in trouble. If he calls him a cocksucker, he doesn't have to go to class. Doesn't make much sense to me. I just think some people use those words as something different than the PC police assume.

Edited July 12, 2011 by Dick Allen

[Balta1701]

Sure, but after realizing why it's harmful, I stopped. Same with retard etc. That said...

 

 

 

This whole thing seems really overblown. Someone could take 5 minutes to explain to Gordon 1) why that's unprofessional and 2) why it's offensive and the whole situation is done. No need to jump all over him and make a big story out of it. I don't really care that Gordon did this, but then again, I'm not gay. There's been way more offensive things said ITT.

The fact that people in the stadium could see it made it guaranteed that it was going to be a big story. Or at least big relative to the white sox.

 

Unless more has happened than I've seen, the only sense in which it is overblown is that people feel the need to insist that gay-bashing is some sort of virtue that should be defended.

[Dick Allen]

The fact that people in the stadium could see it made it guaranteed that it was going to be a big story. Or at least big relative to the white sox.

 

Unless more has happened than I've seen, the only sense in which it is overblown is that people feel the need to insist that gay-bashing is some sort of virtue that should be defended.

It wasn't a big story until it was made a big story. He did it on Monday. It hit the papers on Friday. He shouldn't have done it, but its really not that big of an offense.

[StrangeSox]

I took it is him saying that no straight man on this planet would want to bring a son into the world with aspirations of him eventually turning gay. I agree with that totally.

 

No, he said he'd be disappointed if his kid turned out gay, not that he didn't have "aspirations," because that's a stupid argument no one would really make.

 

Can one eventually accept it? Sure. But no father initially would want that for their son. And I would have to imagine that even if one's father did accept it, it'd eat away at him on the inside for eternity.

 

I wouldn't "want" it any more or less than brown eyes or brunette hair. It's who they are, why should that be a disappointment to you? Why should that eat away at you for the rest of your life? Only if they're a homophobe or maybe conflicted with their own sexuality. While I am not my father, I feel 100% confident in saying that my brother being gay does not eat away at him. He loves his sons unconditionally and their sexuality does not matter to him, only their happiness.

[The Sir]

I took it is him saying that no straight man on this planet would want to bring a son into the world with aspirations of him eventually turning gay. I agree with that totally. Can one eventually accept it? Sure. But no father initially would want that for their son. And I would have to imagine that even if one's father did accept it, it'd eat away at him on the inside for eternity.

 

Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner.

 

Some of you (i.e. StrangeSox) are acting like I'd disown the kid and have his image erased from the family photographs, Stalin style. And I never said that. I just want my kids to go on dates with girls, I want to meet his female fiance some day and I want a normal family experience. Having a gay kid would be a big adjustment and I don't want that. And I'd be really sad for a while. I'd probably accept it sooner or later, but it'd always eat away at me like Jordan said.

 

Here's a sort of random question, Strange Sox. Say I was a priest in a gay marriage state like Massachusetts. If my interpretation of my religion said marriage was between a man and a woman only, what would happen if a gay couple came to me to be wed? Am I obligated to do it? Just curious.

 

And Heads, no, I do not have kids. Not yet, at least.

[StrangeSox]

Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner.

 

Some of you (i.e. StrangeSox) are acting like I'd disown the kid and have his image erased from the family photographs, Stalin style. And I never said that. I just want my kids to go on dates with girls, I want to meet his female fiance some day and I want a normal family experience. Having a gay kid would be a big adjustment and I don't want that. And I'd be really sad for a while. I'd probably accept it sooner or later, but it'd always eat away at me like Jordan said.

 

No, I never said you'd disown your child. I posted my reaction to you saying you'd be disappointed and sad. Your last line here only reinforces that you're a bigot and that your child's sexuality and experiences you want to have is more important to you than their happiness.

 

I notice both you and Jordan are using male pronouns and assuming a gay son instead of a daughter.

 

Here's a sort of random question, Strange Sox. Say I was a priest in a gay marriage state like Massachusetts. If my interpretation of my religion said marriage was between a man and a woman only, what would happen if a gay couple came to me to be wed? Am I obligated to do it? Just curious.

 

Nope.

[The Sir]

No, I never said you'd disown your child. I posted my reaction to you saying you'd be disappointed and sad. Your last line here only reinforces that you're a bigot and that your child's sexuality and experiences you want to have is more important to you than their happiness.

 

I notice both you and Jordan are using male pronouns and assuming a gay son instead of a daughter.

 

I wouldn't want a lesbian daughter either.

 

And who are you to tell me how to feel? I'm not gonna judge you for being an atheist (or SoxBadger, if you're not atheist), but you're going to judge me for how I choose to raise my kids? That's pretty arrogant. Whatever dude, you're not going to guilt trip me for wanting a normal kid.

[Balta1701]

Some of you (i.e. StrangeSox) are acting like I'd disown the kid and have his image erased from the family photographs, Stalin style. And I never said that. I just want my kids to go on dates with girls, I want to meet his female fiance some day and I want a normal family experience. Having a gay kid would be a big adjustment and I don't want that. And I'd be really sad for a while. I'd probably accept it sooner or later, but it'd always eat away at me like Jordan said.

 

Here's a sort of random question, Strange Sox. Say I was a priest in a gay marriage state like Massachusetts. If my interpretation of my religion said marriage was between a man and a woman only, what would happen if a gay couple came to me to be wed? Am I obligated to do it? Just curious.

 

And Heads, no, I do not have kids. Not yet, at least.

Here's one thing worth thinking about. Do you want to have a kid who is scared to be themselves around you because they know that being themselves would leave you "sad".

[Thad Bosley]

I'm not allowed to be disappointed if my son is gay? Would you not be disappointed? I think most red blooded men would be. Doesn't mean we'd show it, but are there people out there who actually want a gay child?

Is there some sort of contest here today to say the most bigoted, discriminatory, and/or just plain ignorant thing possible? I mean, really - what's going on here. This discussion has devolved into some rather shameful and certainly distasteful commentary. Can we please just get back to trying to run Greg Walker out of town on the first rail or anything else White Sox related, and leave these type of social discussions for websites devoted to such topics?

[StrangeSox]

I wouldn't want a lesbian daughter either.

 

And who are you to tell me how to feel? I'm not gonna judge you for being an atheist (or SoxBadger, if you're not atheist), but you're going to judge me for how I choose to raise my kids? That's pretty arrogant. Whatever dude, you're not going to guilt trip me for wanting a normal kid.

 

I'm telling you that you have homophobic/bigoted views and that you put your own bigoted desires ahead of your hypothetical child. I'm not trying to guilt trip you. I'm hoping to show you that you hold some pretty terrible views.

 

[The Sir]

Here's one thing worth thinking about. Do you want to have a kid who is scared to be themselves around you because they know that being themselves would leave you "sad".

 

I didn't tell my father that I suffered from depression and almost shot myself in the head because I didn't want to bring shame to him. That's not fear; that's respect for your elders. If my kid's gay, I'd rather he not tell me so I never have to know. It'd be the respectful thing to do.

[Jordan4life_2007]

All I know is it would devastate me to know that I would never see a grandchild because my only child (assuming I just had one son) decided to be gay. And that the family name would essentially die when he died. And let's not get it twisted. Sexual preference is a choice. It's not like coming into the world black, white, etc.

Edited July 12, 2011 by Jordan4life

[The Sir]

I'm telling you that you have homophobic/bigoted views and that you put your own bigoted desires ahead of your hypothetical child. I'm not trying to guilt trip you. I'm hoping to show you that you hold some pretty terrible views.

 

Yet you'd probably cry like a little kid if I said your atheism constituted "pretty terrible views" (again, I'm assuming you're an atheist, but hopefully you see what I mean). Why are you judging me when you wouldn't appreciate being judged?

[Heads22]

Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner.

 

Some of you (i.e. StrangeSox) are acting like I'd disown the kid and have his image erased from the family photographs, Stalin style. And I never said that. I just want my kids to go on dates with girls, I want to meet his female fiance some day and I want a normal family experience. Having a gay kid would be a big adjustment and I don't want that. And I'd be really sad for a while. I'd probably accept it sooner or later, but it'd always eat away at me like Jordan said.

 

Here's a sort of random question, Strange Sox. Say I was a priest in a gay marriage state like Massachusetts. If my interpretation of my religion said marriage was between a man and a woman only, what would happen if a gay couple came to me to be wed? Am I obligated to do it? Just curious.

 

And Heads, no, I do not have kids. Not yet, at least.

 

I don't have kids either, but I'm going to guess things change once you have one.

[Thad Bosley]

All I know is it would devastate me to know that I would never see a grandchild because my only child (assuming I just had one son) decided to be gay. And that the family name would essentially die when he died. And let's not get it twisted. Sexual preference is a choice. It's not like coming into the world black, white, etc.

When did you get that sexual preference questionnaire where you checked off your sexual preference "choice" as heterosexual? When did you consciously make that "choice"?

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

lol

 

David Cross has a great bit on the choosing to be gay thing, I'm too lazy to find it and post it though. But basically, if you choose to be gay then you're also choosing humiliation and depression for a good chunk of your life.

 

Also, homophobic is the most misused term I can think of. Just because someone doesn't want to associate with homosexuals or jokes around with other straight people calling them gay doesn't mean that that individual is actually scared of homosexuals or believes they are lesser human beings.

 

And I hate those goddamn commercials that tell you not to say the word "gay." f*** that.

 

But, it is pretty gay to hate on gays or think they're lesser in any way because they happen to be very different. I've never actually met a gay dude or a gay girl that I'd call gay/f**/etc. but I've met all kinds of straight people that I've said that about.

 

And I know about some of the reason why (there's a good Louis CK bit on that which I am also too lazy to post) but IMO there's nothing wrong with calling a straight person gay as an insult, or a gay person gay in a matter-of-fact kind of way. It's all about how you say it and who you say it to.

Edited July 12, 2011 by Kenny Hates Prospects

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

When did you get that sexual preference questionnaire where you checked off your sexual preference "choice" as heterosexual? When did you consciously make that "choice"?

I think this is probably sarcasm or trolling. JMO. No one is that dumb.... right?

[Kenny Hates Prospects]

I didn't tell my father that I suffered from depression and almost shot myself in the head because I didn't want to bring shame to him. That's not fear; that's respect for your elders. If my kid's gay, I'd rather he not tell me so I never have to know. It'd be the respectful thing to do.

I'd say apples and oranges, but this response is more like weather balloons and tacos.

 

Being depressed is nothing to be ashamed about. It's happened to me, tons of people I've known, etc. It happens all the time, especially to teens, young adults, and people struggling with hitting 40, 50, retirement, etc. Why would anyone who actually cares about someone be ashamed to learn of that person's depression? I've known several people who have committed suicide, and in every single case, if something had been said before hand, everyone around those people would have stopped whatever they were doing and found that person help.

 

As for being gay, there's no reason to be ashamed of that either, at least as an adult. As a teen or young adult, that's one thing, but part of becoming an adult is becoming comfortable with who you are in virtually every facet and learning to accept those things which cannot be changed, and sexual preference falls under that category. And why would anyone rather spend decades hiding their whole lives from loved ones? Basically, if you are a well-developed adult, then you are comfortable with who you are as a person, and if you're comfortable with that, then it is up to you to be forthright and others to accept you for it. So if a father won't accept his son being gay, then that's pretty much tough s*** and he can go f*** off then.

[chw42]

All I know is it would devastate me to know that I would never see a grandchild because my only child (assuming I just had one son) decided to be gay. And that the family name would essentially die when he died. And let's not get it twisted. Sexual preference is a choice. It's not like coming into the world black, white, etc.

 

I'm not so sure it is...

 

I used to think it is when I was in middle school, but I didn't know any better. Maybe some people choose to be gay (don't really know why they would if they didn't like men), but I'm absolutely positive that the majority of gay men are gay because they like other men.

[southsider2k5]

Speaking of things Jerry would be proud of... Not this thread. He Gawn.

[lostfan]

Speaking of things Jerry would be proud of... Not this thread. He Gawn.

Yeah... good call. I've been waffling on that for about a half hour now.

[Jenksismyhero]

This thread has been amazingly entertaining.

[Jenksismyhero]

I'm telling you that you have homophobic/bigoted views and that you put your own bigoted desires ahead of your hypothetical child. I'm not trying to guilt trip you. I'm hoping to show you that you hold some pretty terrible views.

 

While I don't agree at all with FlySox here....you throwing out a term like bigot is pretty hypocritical. You're pretty intolerant of anyone's opinions that don't conform to your own, especially conservative ones. Opinions are like assholes: everyone's got them.

 

I think we can all agree that what he did was unprofessional. He shouldn't have done it. The question is whether we should be taking this moral stance that what he did was an affront to the entire gay community. That I think is bulls***. What two people say or do in private communications is entirely different than what someone would say in public. I don't think this was "public" at all, even if it was in a ballpark. As others have said, this was a non-issue until a writer wanting some page views deciding to make it one.

 

[Balta1701]

I think we can all agree that what he did was unprofessional. He shouldn't have done it. The question is whether we should be taking this moral stance that what he did was an affront to the entire gay community. That I think is bulls***. What two people say or do in private communications is entirely different than what someone would say in public. I don't think this was "public" at all, even if it was in a ballpark. As others have said, this was a non-issue until a writer wanting some page views deciding to make it one.

Well, one problem is that Gordon expected it to be private, when at worst it was pretty public. He just never thought about people being able to read it in the upper deck.