chw42 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Jul 13, 2011 -> 01:28 PM) Exactly. It's bad enough that we're doing nothing to shake up mgmt, apparently, but to do NOTHING with the roster as well is intolerable. Make F***** ROOM!!! Anyone of these will do: DL or send down Morel or Teahen or Lillibridge or Rios or Vizquel or Pierre. One of them, or another player, will likely be sent elsewhere closer to deadline time, so we should only have to do this once. I absolutely f***ing HATE the excuse of there not being enough room on the roster. We know there's 25 damn roster spots Ozzie and Kenny, thanks for reminding us again. Seriously, take some damn responsibility. It's management's responsibility to WIN, not cover your ass on bad signings and bad trades or playing the blame game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 13, 2011 -> 01:49 PM) It's management's responsibility to WIN, not cover your ass on bad signings and bad trades or playing the blame game. You would think so but it doesn't always happen that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 13, 2011 -> 12:49 PM) I absolutely f***ing HATE the excuse of there not being enough room on the roster. We know there's 25 damn roster spots Ozzie and Kenny, thanks for reminding us again. Seriously, take some damn responsibility. It's management's responsibility to WIN, not cover your ass on bad signings and bad trades or playing the blame game. Indeed. KW and OZ have been playing an infuriating game of putting the ball in the other guys court on roster moves. The status quo stench of suck permeates the org. Where ya at, Chairman? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 13, 2011 -> 01:19 PM) Whether we're in it or not, we're a stronger team with Viciedo in the starting lineup everyday. Between LF, RF, and DH, he should be able to start 5 - 6 games a week. There is no logical reason whatsoever to not bring him up now that it won't cost us a service year. I read somewhere were someone asked what Vic could do to get better and the reply was dump Boras as his agent. So on that I could see that if some organization offered a too good of a deal to be true for him Kenny pulls the trigger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Jul 13, 2011 -> 04:55 PM) I read somewhere were someone asked what Vic could do to get better and the reply was dump Boras as his agent. So on that I could see that if some organization offered a too good of a deal to be true for him Kenny pulls the trigger. If someone offered "too good of a deal to be true" then wouldn't anyone have to pull the trigger? I mean, if the Dodgers offered you Kershaw and Kemp for Viciedo...would you say no? Come up with your own fantasy there, if it's "Too good to be true"...no one will be mad. The worry is that KW will do something like Viciedo for Beltran, which would be a bad, bad, bad deal that might make the team slightly better this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 13, 2011 -> 08:58 PM) If someone offered "too good of a deal to be true" then wouldn't anyone have to pull the trigger? I mean, if the Dodgers offered you Kershaw and Kemp for Viciedo...would you say no? Come up with your own fantasy there, if it's "Too good to be true"...no one will be mad. The worry is that KW will do something like Viciedo for Beltran, which would be a bad, bad, bad deal that might make the team slightly better this season. Maybe so on a bad deal for Beltran. It is getting intersting over there with the Mets and possible trades though. Beltran has been mentioned. Rios has fallen out of favor with a lot of our fans and maybe with management and we might need a new CF'er. Am I correct in thinking that Rios makes more than Beltran? I am sure the Mets wouldn't do that kind of swap would they? Crazy stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jul 13, 2011 -> 10:13 PM) Maybe so on a bad deal for Beltran. It is getting intersting over there with the Mets and possible trades though. Beltran has been mentioned. Rios has fallen out of favor with a lot of our fans and maybe with management and we might need a new CF'er. Am I correct in thinking that Rios makes more than Beltran? I am sure the Mets wouldn't do that kind of swap would they? Crazy stuff Why in the heck would the Mets want to take on payroll while bringing in a worse player than Beltran? MLBTR saying today that Mets are looking for a big time prospect in return for Beltran and cash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 http://deadspin.com/5820716/the-100-worst-...ebration-part-1 LOL. I dont know if anyone posted this already, Oz is on the list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jul 13, 2011 -> 05:13 PM) Maybe so on a bad deal for Beltran. It is getting intersting over there with the Mets and possible trades though. Beltran has been mentioned. Rios has fallen out of favor with a lot of our fans and maybe with management and we might need a new CF'er. Am I correct in thinking that Rios makes more than Beltran? I am sure the Mets wouldn't do that kind of swap would they? Crazy stuff There's talk from the Mets owner about cutting salary next year from the current $140 million range to nearly the $100 million level. Beltran is an expiring contract, Rios would be additional spending for next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 13, 2011 -> 04:19 PM) http://deadspin.com/5820716/the-100-worst-...ebration-part-1 LOL. I dont know if anyone posted this already, Oz is on the list. Ozzie Guillen, like many managers, was a bad baseball player. His on base percentage in 15 seasons was .286. His slugging percentage was .238. But he won a Gold Glove, you say. And a Rookie of the Year award! He was a three-time All Star! And he stole a lot of bases! Actually, Guillen was caught on almost 40 percent of his attempts. And after his last All Star appearance at age 27 (for a season in which he had a .284 on-base percentage) he hung around for nine more years, doing nothing in particular with his glove and less with with his bat. No wonder he's so infatuated with bad players like Pierre. Edited July 13, 2011 by StrangeSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 13, 2011 -> 07:09 PM) Really, I don't think that's what KW's thinking at all. I'd guess he's thinking "Rios and Dunn are flat out unmovable. I have to get something out of them, there's no benefit to me to benching them, either this season or long term. This team is borderline ready to be dismantled, and I've got 2 more weeks to the deadline. Let it play out as-is, and if things don't snap back immediately, I'm going to have to be a seller." That's true, but not bringing up Dayan is a slap in every fan's face. We all know what's going to happen in Detroit. Our offense is going to SUCK. And we are going to lose. We need a jolt, a spark badly. I think this is a fireable offense making no changes. It's sick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jul 13, 2011 -> 04:27 PM) No wonder he's so infatuated with bad players like Pierre. His career stats are literally what drives us crazy about some players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 I still say Ozzie was not a bad player. I think he was a good shortstop and a good hitter who would not take a walk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 13, 2011 -> 04:52 PM) I still say Ozzie was not a bad player. I think he was a good shortstop and a good hitter who would not take a walk. His on base percentage in 15 seasons was .286. His slugging percentage was .238. [...]Guillen was caught on almost 40 percent of his attempts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jul 13, 2011 -> 10:53 PM) I just gotta say the eye test disputes those stats. Anybody want to back me up on this or are we just all saying Oz was a s***ty baseball player? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 13, 2011 -> 01:09 PM) Really, I don't think that's what KW's thinking at all. I'd guess he's thinking "Rios and Dunn are flat out unmovable. I have to get something out of them, there's no benefit to me to benching them, either this season or long term. This team is borderline ready to be dismantled, and I've got 2 more weeks to the deadline. Let it play out as-is, and if things don't snap back immediately, I'm going to have to be a seller." I'd have to agree that he's thinking exactly that. No team in baseball would bench Rios and Dunn permanently. Now, they might fire their hitting coach or manager to light a fire, but they wouldn't bench highly paid players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 13, 2011 -> 04:54 PM) I just gotta say the eye test disputes those stats. Anybody want to back me up on this or are we just all saying Oz was a s***ty baseball player? Partial memories from 15 years ago of how often Ozzie got hits can't dispute data of how often he got hits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxbrian Posted July 13, 2011 Author Share Posted July 13, 2011 (edited) If there's ever a time to NOT bring up Viciedo, it's today, tomorrow, or Friday before first pitch. Bring him up during the game Friday or Friday night. I don't need to see him, and he doesn't need to, go 0-4 with 4 K's vs Verlander in his 1st game of the season with the Sox. Edited July 13, 2011 by whitesoxbrian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jul 13, 2011 -> 10:57 PM) Partial memories from 15 years ago of how often Ozzie got hits can't dispute data of how often he got hits. Yes but some are acting like he was this massive stiff playing short for Sox all those years. Guillén was an All-Star in 1988, 1990-1991, and won the Gold Glove Award in 1990.[1][17] He led American League shortstops twice in range factor, once in assists and once in fielding percentage.[1] Guillén's .974 career fielding percentage ranks him 40th overall among major league shortstops, ahead of both Luis Aparicio and Dave Concepcion.[18] While he was considered one of the best fielding shortstops in the American League, Guillén was often overlooked in post-season awards because his playing career coincided with that of Cal Ripken, Jr.[3] Guillén ranks among the White Sox all-time leaders in games played, hits, and at-bats.[19] As a hitter, he was known as a free swinger, posting one of the highest at bats per walk ratios in major league history.[20] Guillén played his entire Venezuelan Winter League career with Tiburones de La Guaira. G AB H 2B 3B HR R RBI BB IBB SO SH SF HBP AVG OBP SLG 1993 6686 1764 275 69 28 773 619 239 25 511 141 141 7 .264 .287 .338 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 13, 2011 -> 04:54 PM) I just gotta say the eye test disputes those stats. Anybody want to back me up on this or are we just all saying Oz was a s***ty baseball player? Good glove, no bat. He was one of the worst hitters i have ever seen and the worst on a good baseball team that didnt need his bat. You had guys like Tim Raines, Robin Ventura, Frank Thomas, Carlton Fisk, Lance Johnson, Ellis Burks, Karko,Julio Franco, etc all hitting in a lineup where he wasnt needed at the time. He was all Glove and still was replaced at times by guys like Steve Sax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 QUOTE (whitesoxbrian @ Jul 13, 2011 -> 10:59 PM) If there's ever a time to NOT bring up Viciedo, it's today, tomorrow, or Friday before first pitch. Bring him up during the game Friday or Friday night. I don't need to see him, and he doesn't need to, go 0-4 with 4 K's vs Verlander in his 1st game of the season with the Sox. That is sad to know we're 0-1 in the second half immediately. Verlander. No f***ing way we can win that game. f***. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 13, 2011 -> 11:05 PM) Good glove, no bat. He was one of the worst hitters i have ever seen and the worst on a good baseball team that didnt need his bat. You had guys like Tim Raines, Robin Ventura, Frank Thomas, Carlton Fisk, Lance Johnson, Ellis Burks, Karko,Julio Franco, etc all hitting in a lineup where he wasnt needed at the time. He was all Glove and still was replaced at times by guys like Steve Sax. One of the worst hitters you've ever seen? Wow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 In Ken Griffey Jr. Presents Major League Baseball, the only lineup change I ever make is taking out Guillen and putting in the Little Hurt. Every time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 13, 2011 -> 05:06 PM) One of the worst hitters you've ever seen? Wow. Yes, as a regular player on the Sox he's definitely up there as one of the worst. One of the best with the glove though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 I won't comment on this anymore, but I can't believe Soxtalker's have buried Ozzie the player. Amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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