The official "end of Ozzie soon?" thread

[BigSqwert]

I don't think he was bad at baseball, he just sucked at hitting. He had a couple of very good seasons with the Sox despite hitting worse than Juan Pierre.

greg doesn't deal with facts, just glorified memories.

[whitesoxbrian]

That is sad to know we're 0-1 in the second half immediately.

Verlander. No f***ing way we can win that game. f***.

When the "f***" did I say the Sox are going to lose?

[LittleHurt05]

As a kid growing up watching Ozzie play, my #1 memory was of him swinging through strike 3 about chest/neck high. He could not lay off that high heat.

[Cali]

Another day off, another chance to do ANYTHING to this stagnant mess of a team and.....?

[RockRaines]

You make it sound like he was Eddie Brinkman. He was a light hitter and free swinger but the worst he hit as a regular was .265. That would hardly rank him as a terrible hitter, "one of the worst hitters ever".

Fortunately there is more to hitting than a batting avg. And yes, he was still one of the worst hitters that I saw on the Sox. He was all glove, zero bat. A typical bottom of the order MI.

[LVSoxFan]

Based on KW's comments in the Sun-Times this morning, I see no changes coming. He hinted at maybe trying to get a player but actually said he liked the way Ozzie is managing these guys.

 

I don't think any big change is coming. The fact that Walker still has a job, though, is amazing. Even the most die-hard supporters of him over the years here have turned on him this year. Yeah, it may not fix every thing but it would do something that the organization seems loathe to do: send a SIGNAL.

 

Although, I wonder how many more games with half-empty attendance will be tolerated before something is done.

[BigSqwert]

Another day off, another chance to do ANYTHING to this stagnant mess of a team and.....?

I hope you're not holding your breath.

[fathom]

Based on KW's comments in the Sun-Times this morning, I see no changes coming. He hinted at maybe trying to get a player but actually said he liked the way Ozzie is managing these guys.

 

I don't think any big change is coming. The fact that Walker still has a job, though, is amazing. Even the most die-hard supporters of him over the years here have turned on him this year. Yeah, it may not fix every thing but it would do something that the organization seems loathe to do: send a SIGNAL.

 

Although, I wonder how many more games with half-empty attendance will be tolerated before something is done.

 

It's become obvious to me, in my opinion, that the Sox going 3-7 out of the ASB might be the best thing for this organization. It would force KW to go into sell mode.

[Balta1701]

It's become obvious to me, in my opinion, that the Sox going 3-7 out of the ASB might be the best thing for this organization. It would force KW to go into sell mode.

I'm just wondering what they'll do if they come out and go .500 for the next 1.5 weeks.

[Cali]

KW "likes the way Ozzie is managing these guys" ?!

 

That is just a lie or he's gone delusional. I am literally becoming ashamed to be a White Sox fan based on how this organization is run these days. It's such a bummer...

[Rowand44]

It's become obvious to me, in my opinion, that the Sox going 3-7 out of the ASB might be the best thing for this organization. It would force KW to go into sell mode.

Yes. Obviously I'm not going to complain about an 8-2 or 9-1 stretch but right now this team falling flat on their collective faces to start the 2nd half is the best thing for this organization as a whole imo. That being said, we'll probably start about 6 and 4, causing more standing pat.

[hogan873]

I'm just wondering what they'll do if they come out and go .500 for the next 1.5 weeks.

That might be the worst scenario. It's sad to say that we'd rather have a really bad stretch over a mediocre one. But it's the truth. If this team looks no different (player-wise) come August 1, it's going to be very disappointing.

[Balta1701]

That might be the worst scenario. It's sad to say that we'd rather have a really bad stretch over a mediocre one. But it's the truth. If this team looks no different (player-wise) come August 1, it's going to be very disappointing.

I can't speak for KW, but if I were in his chair...the only thing that would prevent me from doing the full hard sell is a major run of winning.

[Chicago White Sox]

I can't speak for KW, but if I were in his chair...the only thing that would prevent me from doing the full hard sell is a major run of winning.

Define hard sell. If you're proposing a full rebuild, then I think that's a huge mistake. I'm down for a couple moves, such as trading Jackson and Quentin, but I don't think we're that far off from competing next year. I think anything beyond a few tweaks is a huge mistake. What team should we be scared of in 2012? Not saying we'll be the favorite, but I don't see any team in the division who's going to be dominant. I still think you try to make one more run at it in 2012 before you even consider rebuilding.

[chw42]

I definitely wouldn't oppose selling hard. As long as there's a direction. I really don't want to go through what the Cubs are going through right now, i.e., not totally rebuilding and not really contending. There's little hope for the future and you have a decent size payroll full of suck.

[Balta1701]

Define hard sell. If you're proposing a full rebuild, then I think that's a huge mistake. I'm down for a couple moves, such as trading Jackson and Quentin, but I don't think we're that far off from competing next year. I think anything beyond a few tweaks is a huge mistake. What team should we be scared of in 2012? Not saying we'll be the favorite, but I don't see any team in the division who's going to be dominant. I still think you try to make one more run at it in 2012 before you even consider rebuilding.

I don't think that what I'd consider a "Hard sell" would preclude fielding a winning team next year...unless the budget is going to be cut substantially...which is entirely possible.

 

If we have to get down to $100 million in salary next year, and we still have Rios, Peavy, and Dunn on the books, that's big trouble.

 

The team could compete next year if those 3 lived up to par and guys like Humber, Sale, Beckham, and Morel stepped up. But if those 3 are a drag, then I don't see how this team can be a winning team.

[gatnom]

Define hard sell. If you're proposing a full rebuild, then I think that's a huge mistake. I'm down for a couple moves, such as trading Jackson and Quentin, but I don't think we're that far off from competing next year. I think anything beyond a few tweaks is a huge mistake. What team should we be scared of in 2012? Not saying we'll be the favorite, but I don't see any team in the division who's going to be dominant. I still think you try to make one more run at it in 2012 before you even consider rebuilding.

 

The problem is as it was last season: we are going to have a good number of holes without much money or prospects to fill them. Unfortunately, the answer this season cannot be to increase the payroll by 25% hoping that a good team will bring in additional revenue.

 

 

 

[Cali]

I foresee 3-9 for the first 12 back against the Central....

 

Putting them at a gorgeous 11-25 on the season.

[Vote4Pedro]

I'm just wondering what they'll do if they come out and go .500 for the next 1.5 weeks.

this unfortuantely is exactly what i see the sox doing and somehow we will be stuck with no changes whether it be selling or buying

[Balta1701]

this unfortuantely is exactly what i see the sox doing and somehow we will be stuck with no changes whether it be selling or buying

I can't imagine trader Kenny standing pat.

 

Whether he's adding or subtracting, he'll do something.

[southsider2k5]

this unfortuantely is exactly what i see the sox doing and somehow we will be stuck with no changes whether it be selling or buying

 

If it happens, our best hope is for Detroit or Cleveland to get really hot, or both really bad to force this teams hand.

[LVSoxFan]

KW "likes the way Ozzie is managing these guys" ?!

 

That is just a lie or he's gone delusional. I am literally becoming ashamed to be a White Sox fan based on how this organization is run these days. It's such a bummer...

 

Here's the article.

 

Which, by the way, quotes KW of being tired of talking about "stats and slumps."

 

Here's exactly what he said about Ozzie:

 

Williams said he likes the way Guillen has called his team out or defended it, depending on the situation.

 

‘‘The tone is set by the manager and coaches,’’ he said. ‘‘They certainly have an effect on the players. These are professional sports. There are times when players need a kick in the butt, there are times when they need to restore a sense of calm and confidence and there are times when you have to do a little bit of both. And I think what Ozzie did was, he did a little of both. It was needed at the time, and it was very timely.’’

 

[greg775]

I foresee 3-9 for the first 12 back against the Central....

 

Putting them at a gorgeous 11-25 on the season.

 

Making no changes at all is KW's last attempt at making himself look good.

This is the team he put together and now that it's the second half he's just magically hoping it takes off and sweeps Detroit and is ready for a pennant push the entire second half.

It's very misguided.

Why should it change when we just got killed at home by two Central teams?

When Detroit sweeps us, is that all it's finally going to take to bring up Dayan at least?

I'd expect a no hitter to a three hitter from Verlander in Game One.

[hogan873]

Making no changes at all is KW's last attempt at making himself look good.

This is the team he put together and now that it's the second half he's just magically hoping it takes off and sweeps Detroit and is ready for a pennant push the entire second half.

It's very misguided.

Why should it change when we just got killed at home by two Central teams?

When Detroit sweeps us, is that all it's finally going to take to bring up Dayan at least?

I'd expect a no hitter to a three hitter from Verlander in Game One.

Every year it's the team he put together, and he has to realize that things aren't going the way they should. I don't think he'll make a lot of moves, but he'll do something. If the month continues miserable for the next week or two I think (and hope) the selling will begin. I don't see a big run in this team, but I could be wrong. I see them hovering around .500 ball and only a few changes being made.

[Balta1701]

Every year it's the team he put together, and he has to realize that things aren't going the way they should. I don't think he'll make a lot of moves, but he'll do something. If the month continues miserable for the next week or two I think (and hope) the selling will begin. I don't see a big run in this team, but I could be wrong. I see them hovering around .500 ball and only a few changes being made.

Right now he's playing for time. There's little downside to waiting another week or so, the deadline is 2.5 weeks away, if someone is offering talent for one of your players it's unlikely that their offer will decrease as the deadline approaches unless there is a better player on the market (and very few teams are selling pitching).