The official "end of Ozzie soon?" thread

[StrangeSox]

I know there is debate there.

 

It wasn't a comment on whether or not he's good at his job, just that the "his players like him" standard is a bad one.

[Balta1701]

Speaking of whom, has anyone else noticed the Ranger hasn't posted here since maybe mid-April...?

Well...he does get kinda busy during the season, what with the whole spending multiple hours on the air every week.

[chetkincaid]

Well...he does get kinda busy during the season, what with the whole spending multiple hours on the air every week.

 

 

Are you being sarcastic? You probably but in way more hours in a work week than he does. Hell I know I do. He'll probably come around when they start winning.

[greg775]

Are you being sarcastic? You probably but in way more hours in a work week than he does. Hell I know I do. He'll probably come around when they start winning.

 

Cmon. We don't know his hours or what he does at the station besides just host the show.

Why would he come on here anyway? It's mostly a b****fest though the Sox deserve the scorn of us.

If the Sox would be less weird of a team we might have some better discussion. As it is now it's a lot of people being mad.

Why would he want to take part in that?

We're all probably masochists in taking part in, and adding to, all the negativity.

Edited July 11, 2011 by greg775

[nitetrain8601]

You can clearly tell, the captain doesn't listen to him anymore. When Ozzie went beserk a few weeks back after a loss, PK basically implied he knows how and when to tune him out as it's Ozzie being Ozzie. Anytime a captain implies such, it means he at the very least, has lost his biggest backer.

 

ElRockin, do you believe managers, coaches, etc. affect how a team performs?

[elrockinMT]

You can clearly tell, the captain doesn't listen to him anymore. When Ozzie went beserk a few weeks back after a loss, PK basically implied he knows how and when to tune him out as it's Ozzie being Ozzie. Anytime a captain implies such, it means he at the very least, has lost his biggest backer.

 

ElRockin, do you believe managers, coaches, etc. affect how a team performs?

 

 

Nitetrain,

 

I think I do. If a manager is negative his layers may very well emulate that attitude. In the case of our players I think they also see the positive of Ozzie and his backing them up. Ozzie doesn't throw his players under the bus. Maybe he should from time to time, but he doesn't. I have picked up what I think is support from the likes of PK and MB for Ozzie and the staff.

[elrockinMT]

It wasn't a comment on whether or not he's good at his job, just that the "his players like him" standard is a bad one.

 

 

I think the liking him goes along with respect, support, etc. That would be my point

[elrockinMT]

I'm sure our players like Ozzie, but I don't know if they respond to his tactics very well anymore. You'll see quotes by Konerko saying "that's just Ozzie being Ozzie".

 

 

I know what you are saying, but we heard that before when this team was winning. People laughed at it then. Winning is better then losing for everyone's attitude isn't it?!

[Kyyle23]

Are you being sarcastic? You probably but in way more hours in a work week than he does. Hell I know I do. He'll probably come around when they start winning.

 

This is not true. He does more than just host the pre and post game shows. I would guess he puts in minimum 8 hours a day at the station depending on what event is going on at the time. He also hosts weekend shows. You dont have to like what he says but you dont just show up and flop down in your chair 5 minutes before you go on air to have his job, there is a lot of work, research, and interviewing.

[caulfield12]

I was asked my opinion and I gave it. Sorry it doesn't match yours. It isn't ridiculous IMO but I could say all this clamoring and such to blame someone is a bit old and getting ridiculous in the extremes people want to go. The manager always gets the blame and gets fired when the players fail to perform. I guess it is easier to fire a manager then a player making $16M a year. Doesn't mean it's right and doesn't mean it will make anyone play better either with the manager getting fired. But, that seems to be the only answer folks have ' FIRE OZZIE." If you make mention of a possible trade or of a player that should be singled out and you then hear all kinds of reasons why that can't be done. All this has become is a gigantic gripe session with fingers getting pointed everywhere. But, I still haven't heard how this idea of firing the manager or the hitting coach or the first base coach is going to help the team win. I think Ozzie is moving from protecting the players mode to lighting a fire under some people as it should be. He had called out Rios and that's one of the guys performing well below expectations. I refuse to believe this team can't get back on track during the second half. We have the talent to go on a winning streak. We are maybe one good stretch away from being on top. That's how I see it. If others don't fine, but don't call the positive comments ridiculous, etc, etc. I won't deny things have been bad and we find some new way to lose almost every day it seems. But, we have some darn good talent of this team and they have won before. They can motivate each other and I am loking forward to seeing them drive on

 

 

He called out Rios and what has happened to his level of play since then? If anything, it has gotten worse. FWIW, he also said he wasn't meaning to send an example to Rios personally, that his being pulled was a message/warning to the entire team.

 

I'd agree with you if there weren't 3-4-5 obvious "mental" errors per game. Physical errors, that's one thing. At least there's an effort being made, like when Juan Pierre throws the ball in from LF, I never get upset no matter what the result.

 

In Sunday's game, Rios made numerous "mental errors" just in the span of 2-3 innings on defense. That's just not acceptable for a player with his OPS. Missing cutoff men, lollipopping throws, throwing to the wrong base/s, taking the wrong routes on balls, misreads....maybe the last two aren't as easily correctable, and it's true, most outfielders have a lot easier time coming in on the ball than going back. But Rios has made the same mistake 15-20 times this season....where a ball hit deep, he'l drift along with the ball instead of the more correct fundamental play of going straight back, contacting the wall, then readjusting and finding the ball in flight.

 

So while the White Sox, in terms of fielding percentage, look good on paper...the truth isn't residing in that one statistic if you follow the team closely.

 

And this isn't about Rios or Dunn alone....we have had so many opportunities to advance runners into scoring position when there are zero or one out and we almost never change our approach...shorten our swings, try to hit the ball to the opposite field...we hit groundouts/DP balls when we need sacrifice flies and hit pop-ups, foul out or K when we need to put the ball in play. I'll use Lillibridge as an example here. You can't have a player that size swinging for the fences every at-bat when contact is called for.

 

Holding on runners...we can't even succeed this season throwing out runners when there's a pitchout. Guys are running on our pitchers (and AJ) like it's an American Legion or short-season minor league game.

 

It just seems like Ozzie "respects" the veteran players too much and doesn't do anything to address their fundamental deficiencies. Jermaine Dye comes to mind here. JD, when he came up with the Braves, had one of the best throwing arms in the game. Yet when he was with us, he was a defensive liability (largely because of the loss of speed/range due to injuries and aging)....but he had the horrible habit of catching every ball flat-footed and then either taking a couple of crow/bunny hops or winding up with a long mechanical throw instead of coming into the ball with all of his momentum moving forward. That's the first thing you learn in Little League/Tom Emanski videos as an outfielder. Catch the ball with two hands. Figure out where the ball's going to land (and it's not ALWAYS possible, but most of the time, yes) and get a running start and catch/throw in one continuous motion with your momentum/force helping you to get some extra ooomph on the ball.

 

Never addressed or changed by the coaching staff.

 

Even something like sending out Alexei Ramirez to deeper LCF to help Pierre out with throws to 2nd, 3rd and home (especially).

 

We don't make adjustments. We don't ever improve or teach fundamentals/execution once the season begins. We never, ever seem to improve in this area.

 

That's where a coaching change can help. You have to break the players of the habit of swinging for the fences in every situation. I guarantee Gibson w/ the DBacks or watch the Nationals/Pirates....if a young hitter came up with runners at 1st and 2nd (no outs) and didn't advance those runners, that guy would be on the bench.

 

Same thing with bunting, which we overuse for an AL team (especially considering none of our players have seemingly learned the art of sacrifice bunting, for a number of reasons).

 

In the end, it's ONE thing if you get beat by a better team, like the Yankees/Red Sox/Angels/Rays/Rangers. It's quite another when you've been getting beat for a decade (with ONE exception) because you keep making mental errors that good baseball teams shouldn't make.

Edited July 11, 2011 by caulfield12

[Cali]

What I always thought was kind of funny was Swisher and Cabrera were run out of town in part for not fitting in with the clubhouse, but 2008 was the last time they made the playoffs (just barely, I know...blah blah blah)

 

Maybe they weren't the problem, maybe the CLUBHOUSE was the problem.

 

I'm not defending either of those two players specifically, I'm just saying that players and coaches for that matter might need to change to get a different environment. it's clear the current mix isn't working and hasn't been for years...

[chetkincaid]

This is not true. He does more than just host the pre and post game shows. I would guess he puts in minimum 8 hours a day at the station depending on what event is going on at the time. He also hosts weekend shows. You dont have to like what he says but you dont just show up and flop down in your chair 5 minutes before you go on air to have his job, there is a lot of work, research, and interviewing.

 

 

I never said that though. All I said is I don't think that he puts in an insane amount of hours... so much that it doesn't leave him time to post here. Hell I put in WAY more than 40 hours a week on my job and I'll drop a line or 2 every once in a while. I bet others here do too.

[Milkman delivers]

Nitetrain,

 

I think I do. If a manager is negative his layers may very well emulate that attitude. In the case of our players I think they also see the positive of Ozzie and his backing them up. Ozzie doesn't throw his players under the bus. Maybe he should from time to time, but he doesn't. I have picked up what I think is support from the likes of PK and MB for Ozzie and the staff.

 

Ozzie's never thrown a player under the bus? Ha!

[lostfan]

Ozzie's never thrown a player under the bus? Ha!

I recall the team making a big joke about "Ozzie's bus" in 2006 or so.

[Balta1701]

This is not true. He does more than just host the pre and post game shows. I would guess he puts in minimum 8 hours a day at the station depending on what event is going on at the time. He also hosts weekend shows. You dont have to like what he says but you dont just show up and flop down in your chair 5 minutes before you go on air to have his job, there is a lot of work, research, and interviewing.

The question for anyone is...why do they post here? Some of us enjoy it, or at least get a mental break from whatever else we're doing. Rongey's job is basically to deal with the type of people who post here non-stop. Coming here is not a break from that.

[southsider2k5]

The question for anyone is...why do they post here? Some of us enjoy it, or at least get a mental break from whatever else we're doing. Rongey's job is basically to deal with the type of people who post here non-stop. Coming here is not a break from that.

 

The sad thing is, I think the average caller in the post game is worse than a bad game thread.

[Kyyle23]

I never said that though. All I said is I don't think that he puts in an insane amount of hours... so much that it doesn't leave him time to post here. Hell I put in WAY more than 40 hours a week on my job and I'll drop a line or 2 every once in a while. I bet others here do too.

 

Maybe it is just overload of white sox. We are fans, to us this is fun(well, sometimes). This is his job. I think if I had his job my time on this messageboard would be severely limited. We saw Ranger over the offseason.

 

My point is, you dont know his work schedule and claiming that you work more than him therefore he should post more than he currently does is off base.

[southsider2k5]

I find it odd how many people target the post game show host personally... Like he has anything to do at all with what is happening in the organization.

[elrockinMT]

I find it odd how many people target the post game show host personally... Like he has anything to do at all with what is happening in the organization.

 

 

Lashing out at anyone and anything I guess. Doesn't make any sense though

[Balta1701]

Lashing out at anyone and anything I guess. Doesn't make any sense though

There's an emotional connection there though since part of Rongey's job is to toe the company line, even if he personally doesn't make the choices.

[fathom]

There's an emotional connection there though since part of Rongey's job is to toe the company line, even if he personally doesn't make the choices.

 

I think it has more to do with Rongey seemingly always supporting anything and everything Ozzie and the Sox do, and when someone disagrees with him, he acts in a condescending way. It is what it is...he's a host and not a baseball expert, no big deal.

Edited July 12, 2011 by fathom

[Balta1701]

I think it has more to do with Rongey seemingly always supporting anything and everything Ozzie and the Sox do, and when someone disagrees with him, he acts in a condescending way. It is what it is...he's a host and not a baseball expert, no big deal.

And that's also...sort of his job. If he did the kind of things that would take for this type of Sox Fan to not get on him, he'd get fired quicker than Stone got canned on the North Side.

[shago]

I know. Why can't they change some things?

Because JR runs the organization for $$$ -- not sure why people don't get that. Even with this payroll, because of the stadium deal, the TV deal and the ticket sales, winning is not the ultimate driver. Don't get me wrong, he's glad when it happens, but... The Bulls (profitable in a non-profitable NBA) and White Sox (second team in second city) both are very profitable. Have to imagine that he thinks loyalty helps drive that. Thus why he has a bunch of ex-Sox, regardless of their talent in their jobs (Walker, Ozzie) in their chairs... Die hard Sox fans might crave winning, but there are a lot of fans who go to the ballpark to enjoy a day out and a lot of people that like seeing and watching Ozzie Guillen. I'm going to get blasted for this post, but think it's right...

[RockRaines]

Larry Bird said that professional athletes (at least in the NBA) tune out their coach after 3 years.

[elrockinMT]

And that's also...sort of his job. If he did the kind of things that would take for this type of Sox Fan to not get on him, he'd get fired quicker than Stone got canned on the North Side.

 

 

And how Harry Caray adn Jimmy Piersal got canned by the Sox