Was that the right call?

[zygoat]

I didn't understand today why Ozzie would have Alexi bunt over Pierre so they could walk Paulie to get to Dunn. I understand that there were no outs (one out after the bunt) but to take the bats out of the two best hitters in your lineup to face Dunn seemed crazy to me (Thank god for TCQ base knock- he was pumped after that). I know that it was probably the right play with another lineup but it really bothered me today with the situation at hand.

 

Also, why didn't they bunt AJ over after the leadoff double so Teahen could possibly hit a sac fly to win the game? They did it earlier with our best hitters so why not when the situation called again for it? I'm not manager but I would have reversed the calls if I saw both situations.

 

Please don't be offensive in your posts.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

[lostfan]

Over the years as Ozzie's been the manager of the Sox I've come to realize he just doesn't give a s*** about numbers, let alone actually bother to look at them. Especially apparent when he's PHing guys. If a RHP comes in to relieve, and the guy coming to bat is hitting like .320 off righties, and significantly better than he hits off lefties with a healthy sample size (as in, for the entire year, and with career numbers backing it up), Ozzie will bring in a lefty to hit just because he's lefty even though that guy is hitting like .265 with limited power against righties. It's just not how he does things, and he laughs or rolls his eyes at us when we complain. "I make the f***ing lineups" or "I know more baseball than you do, STFU."

 

And even if we had the old version of Juan Pierre or a guy who was nearly automatic at stealing bases, and Beckham was hitting like Derek Jeter in his prime, he'd have Beckham sac bunt, just because... I don't know. For f***'s sake at least a hit and run, or Pierre stealing 2nd and THEN a sac bunt... anything except simultaneously negate Pierre's primary value to the offense and take the bat out of one of your best hitters. That's completely asinine... but that's just what Ozzie does and will do as long as he's the manager. Ozzie does things either just to do them, or because he believes that's how baseball is supposed to be played no matter what.

[kitekrazy]

I didn't understand today why Ozzie would have Alexi bunt over Pierre so they could walk Paulie to get to Dunn. I understand that there were no outs (one out after the bunt) but to take the bats out of the two best hitters in your lineup to face Dunn seemed crazy to me (Thank god for TCQ base knock- he was pumped after that). I know that it was probably the right play with another lineup but it really bothered me today with the situation at hand.

 

Also, why didn't they bunt AJ over after the leadoff double so Teahen could possibly hit a sac fly to win the game? They did it earlier with our best hitters so why not when the situation called again for it? I'm not manager but I would have reversed the calls if I saw both situations.

 

Please don't be offensive in your posts.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

Trying to get a rise out of the fire Ozzie crew?

 

I still don't get why Dunn isn't batting 8th. Maybe it's management trying to show some confidence in a player. I don't think Adam Dunn likes his season so far. I imagine he and the staff are trying anything and everything to get him out of this slump. He's a money guy and you have to keep playing him. People forget the Paul Konerko of 2003 and 2008.

 

Maybe they didn't want Gordon to bunt because he was 1 for 3. It could be the Twins were expecting it. Maybe it would have to be a real good bunt to move A.J. to third.

 

If the right thing was done and wasn't executed Ozzie still takes the blame.

 

[greg775]

I didn't understand today why Ozzie would have Alexi bunt over Pierre so they could walk Paulie to get to Dunn. I understand that there were no outs (one out after the bunt) but to take the bats out of the two best hitters in your lineup to face Dunn seemed crazy to me (Thank god for TCQ base knock- he was pumped after that). I know that it was probably the right play with another lineup but it really bothered me today with the situation at hand.

 

Also, why didn't they bunt AJ over after the leadoff double so Teahen could possibly hit a sac fly to win the game? They did it earlier with our best hitters so why not when the situation called again for it? I'm not manager but I would have reversed the calls if I saw both situations.

 

Please don't be offensive in your posts.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

Adam Dunn is screwing everything up with his ineptitude. We aren't going to win squat with him batting third, fourth fifth or sixth.

Yes Beckham should have bunted him over. Ozzie gave his reasons for it, said he trusted him to hit it to the right side or get a single.

Beckham as we all know may have f***ed up the bunt. Usually Oz goes for the bunt as you know. This time he didn't. Ultimately Lexi slugged a game winning hit. It was not a balk or a s***ty lazy pop up. A real hit.

Every manager but Ozzie would have bunted him to third, but he still would have had a slow runner on third who prolly woulda got thrown out at home on the sac fly.

We won the game but people still want to second guess, which is beyond me.

 

BTW this pitching matchup no way we should lose Sunday, that's why we probably will.

Edited July 10, 2011 by greg775

[greg775]

It's just not how he does things, and he laughs or rolls his eyes at us when we complain. "I make the f***ing lineups" or "I know more baseball than you do, STFU."

 

Cmon that's unfair.

Ozzie at times freaks out and says s*** like that. The majority of the time he answers the f***ing questions.

He is an entertaining guy and will manage in Florida prolly 20 years.

We're lucky to have him, but his time has likely come.

It would take a huge extension to keep him, cause Florida will give him what he wants in a long term deal.

Edited July 10, 2011 by greg775

[Bubba Philips]

Cmon that's unfair.

Ozzie at times freaks out and says s*** like that. The majority of the time he answers the f***ing questions.

He is an entertaining guy and will manage in Florida prolly 20 years.

We're lucky to have him, but his time has likely come.

It would take a huge extension to keep him, cause Florida will give him what he wants in a long term deal.

I hate to say this but whatever Ozzie has been doing in game situations every opposing manager knows what he' s going to do. Why is anyone questioning him when the outcome is favorable. THere is always an alternate way of managing your players. This time it worked. Man on second with double, a bunt popped up for triple play . Has that happened? It worked that is all that anyone should ponder. The next 10 times Ozzie will do it the same way he usually does it and another runner in scoring position will fail to score. Finally he changed his M.O.

[elgonzo4sox]

I didn't understand today why Ozzie would have Alexi bunt over Pierre so they could walk Paulie to get to Dunn. I understand that there were no outs (one out after the bunt) but to take the bats out of the two best hitters in your lineup to face Dunn seemed crazy to me (Thank god for TCQ base knock- he was pumped after that). I know that it was probably the right play with another lineup but it really bothered me today with the situation at hand.

 

Also, why didn't they bunt AJ over after the leadoff double so Teahen could possibly hit a sac fly to win the game? They did it earlier with our best hitters so why not when the situation called again for it? I'm not manager but I would have reversed the calls if I saw both situations.

 

Please don't be offensive in your posts.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

One possible answer: Ozzie and Kenny have decided that the best way to get Dunn on track is to pretend that everything is fine, and to do absolutely nothing which would demonstrate any loss of faith in him.

 

So Ozzie strictly followed The Book in the 8th. The Sox got their top-of-the-order #1 hitter (Pierre) on base. The Book says that your #2 hitter is a good bat handler who can bunt or hit behind the runner (which of course ignores the fact that Alexei was hot and had already hit a HR), so Ozzie had Alexei bunt Pierre over. This puts the #1 hitter on second with one out for your #3 and #4 hitters to drive him in. The Book says your #3 and #4 hitters are your best two hitters and RBI guys and it is up to them to come through when the table has been set. The problem, of course, is that The Book does not say your #4 hitter should be hitting .163 and in a profound slump.

 

The Sox 8th makes all the sense in the world if you explain it by dropping the names and substituting the batting order positions. By following The Book Ozzie was respecting Dunn, and it became Gardie who showed Dunn disrespect by walking Konerko.

 

Several weeks ago Ozzie was somewhat disrespecting Dunn by batting him as low as 7th. I think Kenny and he got together and decided that they were going to pretend that everything was fine as the way to get him back on track, which is why he returned to the 3-4-5 position in the lineup.

 

I have been advocating disrespecting Dunn even more than they were, by batting him 8th and sitting him against lefties. My theory is that this would help reduce the pressure on Dunn (because he'd come up in fewer game critical situations) as well as improve the Sox's chances to win the game slightly until Dunn gets back on track. But it would show even more of a loss of faith in Dunn by the organization.

 

I also think that, although the Sox could improve their chances of winning games now by following my Dunn strategy, that this season is a lost season if Dunn never gets on track. You can't be a playoff winning team or AL champ with such a profound lack of production from the DH spot. Dunn simply has to get on track for the Sox to have any chance this year.

 

The Sox made their decision to bat Dunn in the 3-4-5 hole back when Kenny signed him to a four year deal, not when Ozzie flled out the lineup card for yesterday's game. But Ozzie is the one taking the heat.

 

 

 

[elgonzo4sox]

Adam Dunn is screwing everything up with his ineptitude. We aren't going to win squat with him batting third, fourth fifth or sixth.

Yes Beckham should have bunted him over. Ozzie gave his reasons for it, said he trusted him to hit it to the right side or get a single.

Beckham as we all know may have f***ed up the bunt. Usually Oz goes for the bunt as you know. This time he didn't. Ultimately Lexi slugged a game winning hit. It was not a balk or a s***ty lazy pop up. A real hit.

Every manager but Ozzie would have bunted him to third, but he still would have had a slow runner on third who prolly woulda got thrown out at home on the sac fly.

We won the game but people still want to second guess, which is beyond me.

 

BTW this pitching matchup no way we should lose Sunday, that's why we probably will.

 

I also think the 9th inning was a show of faith by Ozzie in a slumping Beckham, just like the 8th was a show of faith in Dunn. When Gordon is on he definitely can hit behind the runner - heck he started the year in the #2 hole because of that. It was a Saturday afternoon Fox game and a walk-off opportunity - does anyone remember Gordon's Fox walk-off win when he first came up? It could have been a huge confidence builder if Gordon came through. Conversely, a screwed up bunt would have been a disaster. So Ozzie let him hit away.

 

Runner on second, double play not in order, and we have three chances to get a single to win the game. Our hitters need to hit. I have no problems with how Ozzie managed either the 8th or the 9th. Fortunately, our hitters came through. Ozzie can only do so much to manage around lack of production from the hitters. If we're going to win the division, the hitters need to hit.

[BigSqwert]

No. Those were not the right calls. He has never been known as a good in-game manager and those odd moves didn't change that fact. Now go piss on a statue for questioning his tactics!

Edited July 10, 2011 by BigSqwert

[elrockinMT]

You play with who you have and I am thinking the manager and coaches know how a player will likely perform. However, I would have thought Beckham would be bunting AJ over to third, but speed helps and AJ is not the fastest guy. It worked out though in the end. Like AJ said on scoring on Alexei's hit - he had every ounce of speed going.

 

Now getting to Dunn at least he hit the ball all four times for outs and didn't K

[GreenSox]

IT was a terrible move; bunting when behind is a bad idea, and taking the bat out of the hands of 2 of the 3 best hitters (which was obviously was going to happen) was even sillier. Yes, the outcome was fine....bad decisions sometimes lead to satisfactory outcomes, just like AAA talent would win 40 or so games in a ML season (the blind squirrel thing)

[The Ginger Kid]

All we keep hearing from Sox brass is look at the back of the card. I think they expect Dunn to snap out of it as long as you stay with him, so just keep running him up there and the law of averages will take over and he'll start to deliver in those moments. Looking at it like that, you almost welcome a walk to Konerko since that puts another on in front of your best power hitter. Seriously, I believe that's the thinking. Don't agree with it, however.

[Jake]

You guys probably won't believe this, but Dunn when batting .180 still has a big presence in the lineup to an opposing pitcher. When he comes to the plate pitchers are still focusing in harder to remember scouting reports and not make a mistake to him. Adam Dunn is a big man and a big name and while the numbers might not bear it out, there's something to be said about a big bopping 3/4 hitter that has been one of the best power hitters around for that past 8-10 years. Pitchers remember that, none of them want to be the one to help him bust out of the slump. They all would rather see a hot-hitting AJ or whoever else.

[zygoat]

I'm not trying to be an Ozzie hater in this post but to take the bat out of the two best hitters to move a runner along didn't really sit well with me. I know it all worked out but we scored both our 8th and 9th inning runs off base hits with two outs. I hate to say it but if the situation was reversed, I'm sure the twins would have been able to knock those runs in with outs to kill. I loved how Carlos and Alexi battled but I just didn't agree with his tactics. I understand Dunn is a force and whatnot but let your all stars get their swings in.

 

Either way beating the twins is a joy to watch.

[Dick Allen]

You guys probably won't believe this, but Dunn when batting .180 still has a big presence in the lineup to an opposing pitcher. When he comes to the plate pitchers are still focusing in harder to remember scouting reports and not make a mistake to him. Adam Dunn is a big man and a big name and while the numbers might not bear it out, there's something to be said about a big bopping 3/4 hitter that has been one of the best power hitters around for that past 8-10 years. Pitchers remember that, none of them want to be the one to help him bust out of the slump. They all would rather see a hot-hitting AJ or whoever else.

Great move, have Ramirez bunt so they can walk Konerko and the big "presence" Adam Dunn about 2-60 against LHP facing one of the better performing LHP's this year. GMAB.

If they were so scared, why did they put Konerko on? Not only did he take the bat out of Ramirez's hands, he took it out of Paulie's hands. It was an idiotic move. There is no defense, especially considering he later refused to have Beckham bunt with no out and the winning run on second.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

Great move, have Ramirez bunt so they can walk Konerko and the big "presence" Adam Dunn about 2-60 against LHP facing one of the better performing LHP's this year. GMAB.

If they were so scared, why did they put Konerko on? Not only did he take the bat out of Ramirez's hands, he took it out of Paulie's hands. It was an idiotic move. There is no defense, especially considering he later refused to have Beckham bunt with no out and the winning run on second.

I agree with you and I will take it a step further since I was at yesterday's game. Bottom of the 7th, tie game, Castro draws a 2-out walk. Before Beckham comes up to bat, I'm calling for Lilli to pinch run for Castro in case we get lucky and Gordo hits a gapper. Few pitches later, Beckham shoots a line drive down the right field line for a double and Castro is held up at third after the ball reaches the wall. Next at-bat, Morel strands both runners with the third out, game still tied. Why not pinch run for Castro in that spot? You have to play the 7th inning on in a one run game likes it's the 9th, especially the way Mark was throwing yesterday and Crain/Santos have been throwing. Next inning, Ozzie pinch runs for Konerko while he's on first with 2 outs (also representing the go-ahead run). WTF? I know he probably wanted to give AJ the day off with the back-to-back day games but come on you are telling me AJ can't catch the last two innings (assuming no extra innings...)? Irony of the whole situation is that Castro goes down in the top of the 8th inning with the broken hand after the passed ball that almost cost the Sox the game and AJ catches the 8th and 9th regardless. The only managerial decision that I agreed with yesterday was intentionally walking Cuddyer with 2 outs and a runner on second to get to Thome. I'm usually an Ozzie supporter but wow that was a rough one for him yesterday. Glad the team was still able to overcome his awful game.

[greg775]

The next 10 times Ozzie will do it the same way he usually does it and another runner in scoring position will fail to score. Finally he changed his M.O.

 

 

One possible answer: Ozzie and Kenny have decided that the best way to get Dunn on track is to pretend that everything is fine, and to do absolutely nothing which would demonstrate any loss of faith in him.

Sox made their decision to bat Dunn in the 3-4-5 hole back when Kenny signed him to a four year deal, not when Ozzie flled out the lineup card for yesterday's game. But Ozzie is the one taking the heat.

 

These new guys are TOO smart. 100 percent correct.