southsider2k5 Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 He said in the Trib today that The Twins are always built to win the AL Central and not the World Series, while the Sox are always built to win the World Series and not the AL Central. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 10, 2011 -> 10:36 AM) He said in the Trib today that The Twins are always built to win the AL Central and not the World Series, while the Sox are always built to win the World Series and not the AL Central. He's an idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 There's a tinge of truth to that. Rosenbloom is still an idiot though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 What the heck does that mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 It means that the Sox have the pitching staff to beat the elite teams whereas the Twins get by beating the lesser teams and really have no one to match up against the better teams in 7 game series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilliamTell Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 It means we win the Wild Card we're winning the series! haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Rosie is a complete idiot, don't know how he has a job yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 10, 2011 -> 11:49 AM) It means that the Sox have the pitching staff to beat the elite teams whereas the Twins get by beating the lesser teams and really have no one to match up against the better teams in 7 game series. Maybe we TRY to do that, but we don't succeed. In case anyone hasn't noticed, Peavy and Jackson aren't "elite". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiderman Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 10, 2011 -> 10:36 AM) He said in the Trib today that The Twins are always built to win the AL Central and not the World Series, while the Sox are always built to win the World Series and not the AL Central. Rosenbloom is a simpleton, and he also is the most miserable columnist that I've seen. He's never happy about anything. As for this quote, it sounds great, really deep and clever, except it's not. It's actually a pretty stupid comment from the White Sox perspectivewhen you consider that for the Sox to win the World Series, they need to win the AL Central in most every season when you're in the same league as the Red Sox and Yankees. He's right about the Twins who can't get past the Yankees, but this is Rosenbloom being negative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 10, 2011 -> 09:36 AM) He said in the Trib today that The Twins are always built to win the AL Central and not the World Series, while the Sox are always built to win the World Series and not the AL Central. I couldn't agree more. There is a reason the Twins never win in the playoffs. They develop pitchers that throw strikes, but aren't necessarily "stuff" pitchers. And there is nothing wrong with that, because they will always be consistent and keep you in games for the most part. They also develop position players that are fundamentally sound and put the bat on the ball. Over the course of 162 games in the Central Division, that oftentimes, will win 85-95 games, assuming you have a quality roster. Meanwhile, the White Sox, and KW in particular, seem to be lured in by the potentially dominant SP, the guy that can shut down any offense on any given day. However, by nature, these pitchers also have days where they are unable to harness their stuff and this leads to inconsistency. Mark Buehrle is the obvious exception to this, and to a lesser extent, Johnny Danks. From an offensive perspective, Kenny has brought in power hitting players who will have 30-40 home run seasons, but also will go through extended periods where they are practically useless, such as Carlos Quentin. What this has lead to, especially in the last 5 years or so, is a team that can beat the Red Sox and the Yankees (and that has), but will struggle with lesser opponents within the division quite often. The end result is a team that is much more capable of beating the AL powers in a 7 game series, but will struggle to win the 85-95 games to reach the postseason due to their inconsistency. For all you guys saying Rosenbloom is a fool, I don't necessarily disagree, but on this point, he is spot-on. I don't think a more accurate assessment of our club over the past several years could be made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 It's kinda true. If the Sox played the Yankees in '10 or '09 I bet they win at least 1-2 games. Maybe not the series, but they would have put up a better fighting chance against them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 10, 2011 -> 06:48 PM) I couldn't agree more. There is a reason the Twins never win in the playoffs. They develop pitchers that throw strikes, but aren't necessarily "stuff" pitchers. And there is nothing wrong with that, because they will always be consistent and keep you in games for the most part. They also develop position players that are fundamentally sound and put the bat on the ball. Over the course of 162 games in the Central Division, that oftentimes, will win 85-95 games, assuming you have a quality roster. Meanwhile, the White Sox, and KW in particular, seem to be lured in by the potentially dominant SP, the guy that can shut down any offense on any given day. However, by nature, these pitchers also have days where they are unable to harness their stuff and this leads to inconsistency. Mark Buehrle is the obvious exception to this, and to a lesser extent, Johnny Danks. From an offensive perspective, Kenny has brought in power hitting players who will have 30-40 home run seasons, but also will go through extended periods where they are practically useless, such as Carlos Quentin. What this has lead to, especially in the last 5 years or so, is a team that can beat the Red Sox and the Yankees (and that has), but will struggle with lesser opponents within the division quite often. The end result is a team that is much more capable of beating the AL powers in a 7 game series, but will struggle to win the 85-95 games to reach the postseason due to their inconsistency. For all you guys saying Rosenbloom is a fool, I don't necessarily disagree, but on this point, he is spot-on. I don't think a more accurate assessment of our club over the past several years could be made. great post. A lot more insight than merely 'rosenbloom is an idiot.' BTW, is there one local writer or reporter Soxtalk users like? Or are they all idiots? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 10, 2011 -> 12:48 PM) I couldn't agree more. There is a reason the Twins never win in the playoffs. They develop pitchers that throw strikes, but aren't necessarily "stuff" pitchers. And there is nothing wrong with that, because they will always be consistent and keep you in games for the most part. They also develop position players that are fundamentally sound and put the bat on the ball. Over the course of 162 games in the Central Division, that oftentimes, will win 85-95 games, assuming you have a quality roster. Meanwhile, the White Sox, and KW in particular, seem to be lured in by the potentially dominant SP, the guy that can shut down any offense on any given day. However, by nature, these pitchers also have days where they are unable to harness their stuff and this leads to inconsistency. Mark Buehrle is the obvious exception to this, and to a lesser extent, Johnny Danks. From an offensive perspective, Kenny has brought in power hitting players who will have 30-40 home run seasons, but also will go through extended periods where they are practically useless, such as Carlos Quentin. What this has lead to, especially in the last 5 years or so, is a team that can beat the Red Sox and the Yankees (and that has), but will struggle with lesser opponents within the division quite often. The end result is a team that is much more capable of beating the AL powers in a 7 game series, but will struggle to win the 85-95 games to reach the postseason due to their inconsistency. For all you guys saying Rosenbloom is a fool, I don't necessarily disagree, but on this point, he is spot-on. I don't think a more accurate assessment of our club over the past several years could be made. i dont know, for a while there they had the best pitcher in the majors in Johan Santana anchoring their rotation, and they couldnt get over the hump on short or long series. it is weird how bad they have been in the playoffs with some of the seasons they have had going into the playoffs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Santana was definitely an ACE but he was only one pitcher. They didn't have much else in the pitching department except those guys who pitched to contact and had okay stuff. Wasn't Morneau the first guy to hit 30 home runs for the Twins in 20 years back in 2006? Compare that to the big time sluggers of the Yankees and Red Sox. And even the White Sox really. You need those big superstars for the most part to win in October, and the Twins never really had that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swingandalongonetoleft Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 A lot of times I disagree with Rosie and think he's saying things just to say them, a lot of times it seems like that but it's actually true. I think this is the latter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 10, 2011 -> 12:48 PM) Meanwhile, the White Sox, and KW in particular, seem to be lured in by the potentially dominant SP, the guy that can shut down any offense on any given day. However, by nature, these pitchers also have days where they are unable to harness their stuff and this leads to inconsistency. Mark Buehrle is the obvious exception to this, and to a lesser extent, Johnny Danks. From an offensive perspective, Kenny has brought in power hitting players who will have 30-40 home run seasons, but also will go through extended periods where they are practically useless, such as Carlos Quentin. The problem is that the scouting has been poor and the Sox have used massive resources chasing these guys with "stuff", who end up dominating very rarely. The Sox also equate "stuff" with throwing hard, and the 2 don't necessarily connect. Who in the world convinced Ken Williams that Edwin Jackson was a lead starter quality pitcher? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 10, 2011 Author Share Posted July 10, 2011 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 10, 2011 -> 02:35 PM) The problem is that the scouting has been poor and the Sox have used massive resources chasing these guys with "stuff", who end up dominating very rarely. The Sox also equate "stuff" with throwing hard, and the 2 don't necessarily connect. Who in the world convinced Ken Williams that Edwin Jackson was a lead starter quality pitcher? 4 teams have been convinced of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 10, 2011 -> 03:38 PM) 4 teams have been convinced of that. And the first 3 got first-hand confirmation that he wasn't; but Williams, true to form, walked right into the trap. He overpayed a team that was looking to dump salary anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 Tampa didn't get rid of Jackson due to talent according to some. It was more about off the field stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 10, 2011 Author Share Posted July 10, 2011 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 10, 2011 -> 04:34 PM) And the first 3 got first-hand confirmation that he wasn't; but Williams, true to form, walked right into the trap. He overpayed a team that was looking to dump salary anyway. And yet teams are still taking chances on him because he has stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 10, 2011 Share Posted July 10, 2011 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jul 10, 2011 -> 12:54 PM) i dont know, for a while there they had the best pitcher in the majors in Johan Santana anchoring their rotation, and they couldnt get over the hump on short or long series. it is weird how bad they have been in the playoffs with some of the seasons they have had going into the playoffs Santana was the exception, and he was not drafted by the Twins, but selected in the Rule 5 draft. And when Santana was anchoring their rotation, they at least won playoff games. They weren't able to get over the hump, but those teams at least had a chance of winning. Since Santana was traded, the Twins have been made short work of in the postseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 10, 2011 -> 10:36 AM) He said in the Trib today that The Twins are always built to win the AL Central and not the World Series, while the Sox are always built to win the World Series and not the AL Central. Twin fans agree on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 10, 2011 -> 04:39 PM) And yet teams are still taking chances on him because he has stuff. Let's hope so. I get tired of the Sox being the end of the line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwolf68 Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 So...a team that can't win the crappy AL Central is 'built for winning the World Series?' Laughable. And how many World Series has this team won since 2005? None...they've been to post-season ONE SINGLE time since then. ONCE. 2005 showed you how to win....pitching and defense, timely hitting, a lot of grit and great team chemistry. I don't know that 2005 was sustainable and it was probably just a 1-year deal, but putting big-name loafers and floaters on this team hasn't been working. Kenny needs to go back and scour the minors for the next Jenks, Thornton, Hermanson, etc...and quit pissing away money and prospects on overrated/overpaid hacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 (edited) You can also go back to the Billy Koch failed experiment. KW's fundamental belief in "stuff" (ironic, since Koch had lost his electric stuff due to overuse)...but that period of acquiring all those guys like MacDougal, Aaardsma, Masset and Sisco. All of those guys ended up blowing up in their faces...Masset, you can argue that he just never got enough chances with the Sox, but he's obviously done pretty well with the Reds. Gavin Floyd, Jackson, Peavy (at one point)...all with the "stuff" or arsenal to be "aces" and yet very rarely have we seen that out of them in 2011. Meanwhile, we've gotten much better results out of the Buerhle's, Humber's and Danks'es (until 2011) of the world, all things considered. EDIT: And Javy Vazquez too, Mr. Potential with a great statline and so-so actual results (.500 at best) and falls apart in every "big game" situation. Edited July 11, 2011 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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