This organization is in disarray

[witesoxfan]

From May 1st through yesterday, Beckham was at .267/.337/.386/.723. From May 20th through yesterday, Beckham was at .275/.345/.389/.734.

 

Assuming this continues, there are a lot of changes that should be made in the offseason. The only change I'd make at this exact moment is firing Walker. I understand that offensive production throughout the entire league is down, but there are some pretty good hitters on this team who are doing absolutely nothing whatsoever. At some point, even if it's the same message, hearing it from a different voice will do wonders for a lot of these guys.

[spiderman]

From May 1st through yesterday, Beckham was at .267/.337/.386/.723. From May 20th through yesterday, Beckham was at .275/.345/.389/.734.

 

Assuming this continues, there are a lot of changes that should be made in the offseason. The only change I'd make at this exact moment is firing Walker. I understand that offensive production throughout the entire league is down, but there are some pretty good hitters on this team who are doing absolutely nothing whatsoever. At some point, even if it's the same message, hearing it from a different voice will do wonders for a lot of these guys.

 

I agree with firing Walker. Some move should be made. I don't think Walker's really to blame, and hitting coaches aren't extremely valuable, but something needs to be done.

[greg775]

You had no idea because cherry-picking sucks. Get back to me when Gordon gets his average up to .275.

 

No comprendo.

[justBLAZE]

Beckham should hit .280 with .340OBP and 15-20 HR, and gazzillion double (remember how we thought he'd be a doubles machine) or else he is considered a bust.

[kitekrazy]

I agree with firing Walker. Some move should be made. I don't think Walker's really to blame, and hitting coaches aren't extremely valuable, but something needs to be done.

 

The reason I think they keep him is because of Konerko.

 

[greg775]

Beckham should hit .280 with .340OBP and 15-20 HR, and gazzillion double (remember how we thought he'd be a doubles machine) or else he is considered a bust.

 

Yep, right now he's just another guy at 2B.

Those guys are a dime a dozen. You can always find a second baseman who can hit .250.

[kwolf68]

The Sox as an organization is a mess, the byproduct of a GM simply out of control...very little restraint to resist adding to the baseball card collection...and Ozzie has managed as poorly this year as he ever has.

 

Alex Rios, Jake Peavy, Adam Dunn are trash. Terribly overpaid and now the Sox are stuck with them. I'd rather have saved the money on someone who cared more (than Rios), who could do more than 1 thing (like Dunn) and didn't have the washed up look about them (like Peavy).

 

Pierre is finished as a viable leadoff hitter...his OBP and OPS are as usual meager, but now he is stealing bases at a 55% clip. But of course, he makes up for it by not being able to throw a baseball further than 20 feet.

 

Konerko gets a fat raise and goes out and plays great ball. AJP is also playing championship baseball. Mark Buehrle ditto...it seems the few players remaining from the 2005 team are still OUR best. Adding to his baseball card collection has done jack for Ken Williams. He has been exposed as a GM. Taking other peoples big name dead weight off their hands so he can keep his cred as an 'aggressive' GM. He is now the GM of a group of the most listless guys in baseball. Kudos KW.

 

As for the players, I am all for raking on guys, but lay of Beckham, he is still a young player. This isn't an easy game, it takes time to adjust. His at bats over the past 10-15 games are very good. He's coming around. You can't get a talented prospect and not allow him a chance to learn/grow.

 

Gordo's learning curve would be a non-issue if the veterans on this team were worth a crap.

Edited July 11, 2011 by kwolf68

[southsider2k5]

[fathom]

The Sox as an organization is a mess, the byproduct of a GM simply out of control...very little restraint to resist adding to the baseball card collection...and Ozzie has managed as poorly this year as he ever has.

 

Alex Rios, Jake Peavy, Adam Dunn are trash. Terribly overpaid and now the Sox are stuck with them. I'd rather have saved the money on someone who cared more (than Rios), who could do more than 1 thing (like Dunn) and didn't have the washed up look about them (like Peavy).

 

Pierre is finished as a viable leadoff hitter...his OBP and OPS are as usual meager, but now he is stealing bases at a 55% clip. But of course, he makes up for it by not being able to throw a baseball further than 20 feet.

 

Konerko gets a fat raise and goes out and plays great ball. AJP is also playing championship baseball. Mark Buehrle ditto...it seems the few players remaining from the 2005 team are still OUR best. Adding to his baseball card collection has done jack for Ken Williams. He has been exposed as a GM. Taking other peoples big name dead weight off their hands so he can keep his cred as an 'aggressive' GM. He is now the GM of a group of the most listless guys in baseball. Kudos KW.

 

As for the players, I am all for raking on guys, but lay of Beckham, he is still a young player. This isn't an easy game, it takes time to adjust. His at bats over the past 10-15 games are very good. He's coming around. You can't get a talented prospect and not allow him a chance to learn/grow.

 

Gordo's learning curve would be a non-issue if the veterans on this team were worth a crap.

 

This is really a great post

[Cali]

Nothing about the first half of the season screams "Yeah, this has a chance to work itself out"

 

Doing NOTHING over this break is an absolute slap in the face to every one of us. Stranger things have happen in baseball, but it seems like same old same old Sox and I for one am f***ing sick of it...

[Greg Hibbard]

Pierre is finished as a viable leadoff hitter...his OBP and OPS are as usual meager, but now he is stealing bases at a 55% clip. But of course, he makes up for it by not being able to throw a baseball further than 20 feet.

 

OBP is "as usual meager"....what exactly is a good OBP, in your opinion? Is .350 the last 2.5 months not good enough? Pierre has been offensively performing at right around his career numbers since May 1st (.281/.348/.326/.674), which is now nearly 300 PAs. He has been stealing bases at about the right percentage since then, too (73% - 8 for 11). More importantly, he has been his most hottest most recently. If you never liked the acquisition and were always against him, that's one thing, but he's doing what he was he was brought in here for offensively for the last 2.5 months. Swapping him out for a dude with 100 major league PAs seems silly at this point.

[mmmmmbeeer]

The Sox as an organization is a mess, the byproduct of a GM simply out of control...very little restraint to resist adding to the baseball card collection...and Ozzie has managed as poorly this year as he ever has.

 

Alex Rios, Jake Peavy, Adam Dunn are trash. Terribly overpaid and now the Sox are stuck with them. I'd rather have saved the money on someone who cared more (than Rios), who could do more than 1 thing (like Dunn) and didn't have the washed up look about them (like Peavy).

 

Pierre is finished as a viable leadoff hitter...his OBP and OPS are as usual meager, but now he is stealing bases at a 55% clip. But of course, he makes up for it by not being able to throw a baseball further than 20 feet.

 

Konerko gets a fat raise and goes out and plays great ball. AJP is also playing championship baseball. Mark Buehrle ditto...it seems the few players remaining from the 2005 team are still OUR best. Adding to his baseball card collection has done jack for Ken Williams. He has been exposed as a GM. Taking other peoples big name dead weight off their hands so he can keep his cred as an 'aggressive' GM. He is now the GM of a group of the most listless guys in baseball. Kudos KW.

 

As for the players, I am all for raking on guys, but lay of Beckham, he is still a young player. This isn't an easy game, it takes time to adjust. His at bats over the past 10-15 games are very good. He's coming around. You can't get a talented prospect and not allow him a chance to learn/grow.

 

Gordo's learning curve would be a non-issue if the veterans on this team were worth a crap.

 

This coming from the guy who warned us that Peavy's lat was going to detach and that all of Dunn's hitting prowess was contained in his appendix. Great post, dude.

 

[kitekrazy]

I guess the question for me is how big of a risk is it to bench Rios for good? Who replaces him? Is it by a committee thing? Emotionally you think "anyone's" better but last week Lillibridge cost them a game by allowing a guy to score.

I think this decision lies with Kenny. Whatever Kenny wants to do I don't see Ozzie disagreeing. Maybe they are hoping from some naive GM by the trade deadline.

[caulfield12]

OBP is "as usual meager"....what exactly is a good OBP, in your opinion? Is .350 the last 2.5 months not good enough? Pierre has been offensively performing at right around his career numbers since May 1st (.281/.348/.326/.674), which is now nearly 300 PAs. He has been stealing bases at about the right percentage since then, too (73% - 8 for 11). More importantly, he has been his most hottest most recently. If you never liked the acquisition and were always against him, that's one thing, but he's doing what he was he was brought in here for offensively for the last 2.5 months. Swapping him out for a dude with 100 major league PAs seems silly at this point.

 

 

The problem is that Juan Pierre is no longer a threat on the basepaths...except to the Chicago White Sox.

 

I could pull all the MLB stolen bases leaders and there would be guys like Michael Cuddyer with nearly as many steals and a much better ratio of success.

 

When your one "plus" tool is no longer there...you're limited to hitting for average, and (to give him his due) he's had some clutch hits recently. However, if you throw all the season-long statistics into the blender and spit out ANY type of number to measure him against the average production expected out of a major league outfielder, he's going to come up in the bottom 10-20%. The only number that he'll rank highly in is outs recorded and plate appearances.

 

If Rios and Dunn and Morel were all hitting better, we MIGHT be able to get away with it, or mask Juan's weaknesses.

[elrockinMT]

I guess the question for me is how big of a risk is it to bench Rios for good? Who replaces him? Is it by a committee thing? Emotionally you think "anyone's" better but last week Lillibridge cost them a game by allowing a guy to score.

I think this decision lies with Kenny. Whatever Kenny wants to do I don't see Ozzie disagreeing. Maybe they are hoping from some naive GM by the trade deadline.

 

 

Trying to trade a Rios contract may only happen if you trade one bad contract for another. No one out there in a similar CF situation that I know of and I am not certain a rotation of Pierre and Lilli would be a very good thing in CF. Last year though when we were convinced he had found it we never had these conversations. Can he find it again? Is his struggles affecting his hustle and game mind set? Probably so. As some said before we are probably stuck with it.

[JoshPR]

We have a second half to play. It can still be turned around. So let's not be burning everyone at the stake please

Man now that's having some faith!!!!

[elrockinMT]

Man now that's having some faith!!!!

 

 

I have faith and I know that a baseball season is more than one game. We seem to live and die over each game. We should be better no doubt and it's frustrating, but I still think the talent is there and hopefully we can turn it around

[greg775]

I have faith and I know that a baseball season is more than one game. We seem to live and die over each game. We should be better no doubt and it's frustrating, but I still think the talent is there and hopefully we can turn it around

 

A lot of us have been living and dieing over each series and homestand.

Granted we won several series in a row with a long win streak of 4 games.

I think we freak out more at series than individual games. The Sox drop them in bunches when they start going bad.

So far no hot streak this season. A nice month or so of winning series consistently has been it.

Our fate will be decided in Central Div. games of which the Sox have been exceedingly putrid so far.

[Real]

Rios could be dealt without having to eat any of his salary, but you'd have to throw in quality with it

 

I'd imagine a team like ATL would take Rios+Danks and toss a decent prospect our way

 

I also think Buehrle signs another 3-year deal for about 9-10m/year in the offseason

 

No way Jackson returns.

 

Buehrle, Humber, Peavy, Floyd, #5 starter

 

Lots of money off the books (Danks arb. value would probably be around 9m, Jackson was like 8m? Pierre's gone, Rios' albatross contract is gone

 

Need a young talented CF who can leadoff, corners are set already, IF is set already

 

And a decent chunk of money off the books for 2012..

 

Keep in mind, Sale could be in the rotation and we might have found a hidden gem in Santiago

 

Pitching-wise, we might be 'OK', in the rotation, and stellar in the pen for 2012

 

IMO next year has all the signs of being what this year should've been

Edited July 12, 2011 by Real

[justBLAZE]

IMO next year has all the signs of being what this year should've been

 

That's very optimistic coming from you bud, on the other hand I could see how we're slowly giving up on this season.

 

 

[ParkerBear7]

An overrated, and more importantly, overpaid major league roster full of bums, mental midgets and underachievers. A minor league system that offers nothing outside of one position player and a few relievers. A manager who, for all intents and purposes, quit on his team. A GM who really has no idea wtf he's doing and hasn't since '05. An owner who's as worthless as a submarine with screen doors. Lousy attendance. There's just nothing to like about this organization right now. We belong to one team. Not the Red Sox. Not the Yankees or Phillies. The motherf***ing Twins.

 

 

Warning: Extremely long post!

 

I also do not like how this season has gone thus far but what irks me is fans like you who quit on the team. KW and Ozzie deserve more respect for how they turned the Sox around years ago from a cultural disaster and winning standpoint. What I am not saying here: KW & Oz should not be untouchable and should be accountable for their fair share of mistakes. Obviously, from my perspective they have not yet earned a one way ticket out of town.

 

The truth is this team was in a major slump where losing was the norm year in year out. KW and Ozzie have revitalized this organization. If they didn't you would probably already be a cubs fan (may be a little harsh since I do not know you but it got your attention!). I would argue that Williams and Guillen are actually responsible for having raised all of our expectations to the point that Sox fans no longer except mediocrity. I view this as a good thing. I still believe in the overall philosophy of Jerry, KW, and Ozzie; the vision to re-instill White Sox baseball by bring back a lot of former Sox players from the 80's etc. Heck, they have even recently brought Robin Ventura back in a limited minor league role. I really think this Sox Family philosophy is key to success oh and it would be helpful if the player perform as expected….Rios, Dunn, Bacon….et al!!!

 

Kenny Williams: Sure, I do not always agree with KW roster moves (feel he has bit of a gambling problem that only worsened after having much luck in 2005) and it is not coincidental that the Sox are ALL IN! Anyone looking at his trade history understand why this is a fitting marketing slogan. But know this; Kenny Williams is a very competitive GM that wants to win it all every year but that is what I want in a GM. I too wish KW would exercise some restraints before trading away some of the young guys but other than lets say Chris Young and Daniel Hudson which trades have really come back to haunt the Sox? I can't think of many.

 

Ozzie Guillen: Now let me talk about the man you most want gone: Ozzie. I love Ozzie’s fire and passion for the game and how he is not afraid to mix it up. Yes, I also agree that his rants grow old from time to time. Question: is it hypocritical if Sox fans who also are Bears fan could love this same passion and fire that we all loved in Coach Ditka who happened to be the last famous Head Coach to win a major championship before the Black Hawks? Yes, Ditka finally wore out his welcome with management and I am not saying Ozzie will not eventually do the same. I think managing baseball has to be the hardest sport too manager as the season is so long with fewest playoff spots. Not an excuse but a reality of baseballs current format.

 

Now it is impossible for me to follow the sox as close as when I lived in Chicago but your demand for Ozzie to be fired is not going to solve the problem. Firing Ozzie will only accomplish one thing, last place and a lame duck manager such like past managers like Terry "boomer" Bevington, Jerry Manual, Gene Lamont etc. Here is an alternative for your axe to grind: Why not give credit where credit is due...the players deserve credit for how this season has gone so far due to performance.

 

Here is the good news: As bad as this team has played the first half, they are only a few games back and still have a chance.

 

Go Sox!

 

[greg775]

Rios could be dealt without having to eat any of his salary, but you'd have to throw in quality with it

 

I'd imagine a team like ATL would take Rios+Danks and toss a decent prospect our way

 

I also think Buehrle signs another 3-year deal for about 9-10m/year in the offseason

 

No way Jackson returns.

 

Buehrle, Humber, Peavy, Floyd, #5 starter

 

Lots of money off the books (Danks arb. value would probably be around 9m, Jackson was like 8m? Pierre's gone, Rios' albatross contract is gone

 

Need a young talented CF who can leadoff, corners are set already, IF is set already

 

And a decent chunk of money off the books for 2012..

 

Keep in mind, Sale could be in the rotation and we might have found a hidden gem in Santiago

 

Pitching-wise, we might be 'OK', in the rotation, and stellar in the pen for 2012

 

IMO next year has all the signs of being what this year should've been

 

This was OK until the last line.

I hate 'wait til next year' sentiments.

If we suck this year, minor changes won't make us great next year.

If we play like we did the first half the second half, there should be a major overhaul.

Major.

The players did it to themselves. Have to break it up rather than tinker.

[WHITESOXRANDY]

The Sox as an organization is a mess, the byproduct of a GM simply out of control...very little restraint to resist adding to the baseball card collection...and Ozzie has managed as poorly this year as he ever has.

 

Alex Rios, Jake Peavy, Adam Dunn are trash. Terribly overpaid and now the Sox are stuck with them. I'd rather have saved the money on someone who cared more (than Rios), who could do more than 1 thing (like Dunn) and didn't have the washed up look about them (like Peavy).

 

Pierre is finished as a viable leadoff hitter...his OBP and OPS are as usual meager, but now he is stealing bases at a 55% clip. But of course, he makes up for it by not being able to throw a baseball further than 20 feet.

 

Konerko gets a fat raise and goes out and plays great ball. AJP is also playing championship baseball. Mark Buehrle ditto...it seems the few players remaining from the 2005 team are still OUR best. Adding to his baseball card collection has done jack for Ken Williams. He has been exposed as a GM. Taking other peoples big name dead weight off their hands so he can keep his cred as an 'aggressive' GM. He is now the GM of a group of the most listless guys in baseball. Kudos KW.

 

As for the players, I am all for raking on guys, but lay of Beckham, he is still a young player. This isn't an easy game, it takes time to adjust. His at bats over the past 10-15 games are very good. He's coming around. You can't get a talented prospect and not allow him a chance to learn/grow.

 

Gordo's learning curve would be a non-issue if the veterans on this team were worth a crap.

 

 

Good post.

[soxrwhite]

5 games back at the break with a veteran team. Lets not read the eulogy yet. Detroit? Cleveland? Minnesota? Not exactly dynasties.

[hogan873]

5 games back at the break with a veteran team. Lets not read the eulogy yet. Detroit? Cleveland? Minnesota? Not exactly dynasties.

You're right. But has this team shown any signs of being able to take over the division? They just lost 5 of 7 to the two team behind them in the standings, including the Twins who they can never beat. Unless something changes (mentality-wise), the Twins have a good chance to overtake the Sox in the next month or so.