All-Star Break Prognostication Thread

[caulfield12]

Too soon, man. Too soon.

 

 

My point wasn't that we should play the youngsters and trade all the veterans (yet).

 

It was simply that it's very rare that there is a season where 3-4 rookies have ever gotten to play and advance all together with the White Sox.

 

Not that any of them proved to have any staying power, but when rookies/prospects are on the field (especially since it so rarely happens with the Sox), it's always a lot more fun than seeing a veteran flail away, like Rios/Dunn, for example, or Pierre earlier in the season.

 

That's the reason that 2009 was better too.....Beckham's first 3-4 months and the optimism about the acquisition of Rios and Peavy.

 

Right now, the main reason we have to be optimistic is Viciedo, but the chances of him getting to play meaningful games seem to be about 25% at best, unless of course there's an injury.

 

Maybe if Morel was putting up at least a 625 OPS, I'd feel more optimistic about him, too.

 

 

 

For the first time in many seasons, you have the feeling that if KW went to Konerko/AJ/Buehrle at the break and asked them if they could win the division with the team they had on paper, they'd all say "games aren't played on paper or on the back of a baseball card" and that SOMETHING needed to be done to change the mix/chemistry.

Edited July 11, 2011 by caulfield12

[nickofypres]

Sox go 25-45 and finish 69-93

 

Ozzie is given an extension.

[greg775]

Sox go 25-45 and finish 69-93

 

Ozzie is given an extension.

 

That's a pretty good prediction. Our plodders are just going to get tired the second half, not get better.

I just hope we rebuild on the fly.

First step, trade Pierre to Florida in advance of Oz going there for scraps.

And release Rios and Teahen.

I'd take those 3 moves right off the bat. Bring up Dayan, DeAza and whoever is our third best prospect hitting wise.

 

Think how happy we'd be if to start the second half we had Dayan in left, DeAza center and CQ right. And Flowers as our backup c.

That would be a big improvement, though we'd still have the bad bat at third.

It'd be nice to make a minor trade to get a serviceable third baseman. Send Morel back down til he learns to walk and drive the ball.

[captain54]

For the first time in many seasons, you have the feeling that if KW went to Konerko/AJ/Buehrle at the break and asked them if they could win the division with the team they had on paper, they'd all say "games aren't played on paper or on the back of a baseball card" and that SOMETHING needed to be done to change the mix/chemistry.

 

The mix/chemistry has been bad for a while now. After it all felt apart during the last half of 06', its been one excuse after another. Two slow starts in a row (10' and 11') and the organization is still not convinced that maybe they don't quite have the formula down to put together a consistent winner and the the magic that worked in 05' has lost its sparkle.

 

What's funny is, you will never hear anyone in the organization, ANYONE, even hint around to the fact that MAYBE they were wrong about the team that was assembled to compete in 11'. No reason to change the manager, the hitting coach, the GM...nope, everything is fine.

 

The fact is, this is NOT one of the elite teams in MLB. $127 M payroll in a major market and I sat there and watched the other day and watched a ball game, a team that had absolutely no life offensively or otherwise. Something is not right, AT ALL in this organization.

[Jerksticks]

I suppose it's possible Ozzie is somehow not motivating these guys, but I really don't want to believe that at all. Pitching is good, D is pretty good, and the obvious suckfest on offense is killing us. Why is it Ozzie's fault that everyone sucks, that we can't blow a team out, that we have to scratch and claw our way to one-run victories?

 

I hate watching every at-bat; I've never seen so many popups in my life. Why can't we hit line drives? What happened to doubles? Doubles are great but our guys are never lacing balls down the line oppo.

 

Oh and it really sucks that our 14M, career 1-dimensional DH is now 0-dimensional. That one hurts bad.

[hogan873]

Are you being sarcastic?

 

 

Might be one of the dumbest things I've ever read. Really? You think winning the division is out out of the picture if your team doesn't play better than it already has? How profound.

Maybe it's a very obvious statement, but it's nice to see someone actually saying it. Instead of the normal, "This team has what it takes, there's a ton of talent, we're one wining streak away..."

[captain54]

I suppose it's possible Ozzie is somehow not motivating these guys, but I really don't want to believe that at all. Pitching is good, D is pretty good, and the obvious suckfest on offense is killing us. Why is it Ozzie's fault that everyone sucks, that we can't blow a team out, that we have to scratch and claw our way to one-run victories?

 

I hate watching every at-bat; I've never seen so many popups in my life. Why can't we hit line drives? What happened to doubles? Doubles are great but our guys are never lacing balls down the line oppo.

 

Oh and it really sucks that our 14M, career 1-dimensional DH is now 0-dimensional. That one hurts bad.

 

If you watch the Twins approach at the plate, it's completely the opposite to that of the Sox. Singles hit up the middle, batters finding the holes in the defense and punching the ball through. Watch the Sox hitters and you get guys up there with long loping swings, swinging for the fences, swinging at bad pitches, pitches out of the zone, pop ups, double plays... why do you think its so hard for the Sox to bring a guy in from third with less than 2out? they are under the league average in that respect.

 

Because they don't have the discipline? Because maybe they're not capable? If Ozzie is epousing a more disciplined approach at the plate and they can't get it done...a) its Kenny Williams fault for putting together a roster of stiffs b) if they have the talent to be disciplined at the plate and they aren't doing it despite what Ozzie is preaching, then they've tuned Ozzie out and he's lost the team.

[Milkman delivers]

Not a f***ing thing will happen. And its sad.

 

Exactly.

 

Look at the results of this poll. Basically the entire fanbase has no faith in this organization to do the right thing, and that is pathetic. The vast majority of fans are starting to become alienated. This is a very bad thing.

[Milkman delivers]

Sox go 25-45 and finish 69-93

 

Ozzie is given an extension.

 

 

[BigSqwert]

Exactly.

 

Look at the results of this poll. Basically the entire fanbase has no faith in this organization to do the right thing, and that is pathetic. The vast majority of fans are starting to become alienated. This is a very bad thing.

Should do wonders for attendance.

[oldsox]

I don't think there will be management changes of any sort. Everyone involved with the Sox right down to the bugs in the field (actually, are there bugs in pro-ball fields?) would and have proclaimed that the team is under-performing and is capable of much more than the record shows.

 

There were a few times I was baffled with Ozzie's management of the pen. Ohman coming in to face righties, Santos in extended save/non-save situations.

 

Pierre was in a pretty awful funk and probably could have used some time off during that stretch, he's hitting again and he's had strong post ASB showings before.

 

Rios. He's been a terrible human being all year. Thanks, Lilliflower, for the Chris Shelton-esque performance you gave there for a while, but you are what you are- not an everyday player. A pinch runner. How is Lastings Milledge doing, btw? De Aza?

 

Dunn had an awful stretch and he's shown signs of breaking out. Even if he does, there is a good chance he'll end up with a down season for power numbers and a career high K total just because he does that on a regular basis anyway, and he's already racked up quite a few of them, even if he remembers himself all of a sudden. I don't blame Williams for signing him, and people who call for KW's head based on this signing are lying to themselves. It just hasn't worked out yet for reasons no one foresaw.

Disagree; I hated the signing immediately. No other team pays those bucks for a DH. Posada is close, but he signed that deal with Yanks when he was a catcher. Ortiz well below Dunn's salary. They both have legacy with their teams. And four years? And a draft pick? There is not enough heat in Kenny's kitchen.

[kitekrazy]

If you watch the Twins approach at the plate, it's completely the opposite to that of the Sox. Singles hit up the middle, batters finding the holes in the defense and punching the ball through. Watch the Sox hitters and you get guys up there with long loping swings, swinging for the fences, swinging at bad pitches, pitches out of the zone, pop ups, double plays... why do you think its so hard for the Sox to bring a guy in from third with less than 2out? they are under the league average in that respect.

 

Because they don't have the discipline? Because maybe they're not capable? If Ozzie is epousing a more disciplined approach at the plate and they can't get it done...a) its Kenny Williams fault for putting together a roster of stiffs b) if they have the talent to be disciplined at the plate and they aren't doing it despite what Ozzie is preaching, then they've tuned Ozzie out and he's lost the team.

 

Have you seen anyone come up from the farm lately that shows any plate discipline?

 

I guess what makes the Twin's organization work is that the philosophy is the same from from the bigs to the minors.

 

I refuse to put them on a high pedestal like Hawk and Ozzie. Their fan base doesn't even do that. If you look at a lot of their players outside the exceptional great ones, they usually don't have a better career once they leave that system. Even Santana isn't the same pitcher he once was. They look good playing the Sox outside of that they are not the world beaters.

 

Maybe once the steroid era wears off, younger players won't always be swinging for the fences and leave that to the natural power hitters.

 

[Greg Hibbard]

Until the last five days, I thought there would be something would click at some point, but now I think it's very likely that they will play horribly post-break, get to 10 under, and then win 28 of their last 45 to make it look "respectable".

 

 

[Milkman delivers]

Until the last five days, I thought there would be something would click at some point, but now I think it's very likely that they will play horribly post-break, get to 10 under, and then win 28 of their last 45 to make it look "respectable".

 

That's what they do.

[WHITESOXRANDY]

There is nothing of substance that can be done. Do you just want a coach fired to say that they did? It won't change anything.

 

As far as the players go, the bed has been made. This is it. Dunn and Rios will either produce more or they won't and that will be the story. These two are unmoveable and are too expensive to bench. So, it's live or die with them.

 

The rest of the team is pretty much playing the way they play. Maybe, you could hold out hope for Beckham getting hot or Peavy being consistent. That's about it.

 

Bringing up Viciedo isn't going to change anything either. Firing Ozzie won't change anything. Dunn and Rios won't hit better for another manager.

 

What should happen is a complete gutting of this administration in it's entirety with a whole new team president with a focus on international signings, scouting and player development.

 

Sorry....I drifted into dreamland for a minute. Nothing will happen.

[greg775]

Bringing up Viciedo isn't going to change anything either. Firing Ozzie won't change anything. Dunn and Rios won't hit better for another manager.

 

I think swapping Dayan for Pierre might help; I'd rather have it be Dayan for Morel though, but we can't do that now.

Also dump Rios and bring up DeAza and platoon with Lilly in center I think would help the team a lot.

I really do.

Also bat Dunn eighth. You can't leave him at third or fourth or even fifth and expect this team to win anything. Just can't happen.

 

I like my three changes and I think we could win with them. I'd also advocate playing Flowers 40 percent of the time and AJ 60 percent, okay maybe 70 percent to 30, but let Flowers play, too.

 

I will say w/out yanking Rios out of the lineup and moving Dunn down and bringing up Dayan, there is absolutely NO WAY we will contend and likely will be done by the end of this stretch against the Central. We have a dead team right now. This team just won't suddenly turn it around without some changes, without breathing some life into it.

So the key is: Dayan Now: Bye Bye Rios; Move Down Dunn. That equals winning, baby.

Edited July 11, 2011 by greg775

[LittleHurt05]

I think swapping Dayan for Pierre might help; I'd rather have it be Dayan for Morel though, but we can't do that now.

Also dump Rios and bring up DeAza and platoon with Lilly in center I think would help the team a lot.

I really do.

 

I'm sick of Rios too, but just wondering how do you expect that to happen? No other team is dumb enough to claim him off waivers and do you really expect Reinsdorf to agree to spend $37 million over 2012-2014 for a player not on the roster? If you have to bench him then do it, but either way I don't see how he's not on the roster for the future time being.

[BigSqwert]

I'm sick of Rios too, but just wondering how do you expect that to happen? No other team is dumb enough to claim him off waivers and do you really expect Reinsdorf to agree to spend $37 million over 2012-2014 for a player not on the roster? If you have to bench him then do it, but either way I don't see how he's not on the roster for the future time being.

Agreed. If anything, see how he responds to new coaches after Ozzie, Walker and the crew are dismissed. Maybe someone else can get something to click in his head. You don't just dump him.

[greg775]

I'm sick of Rios too, but just wondering how do you expect that to happen? No other team is dumb enough to claim him off waivers and do you really expect Reinsdorf to agree to spend $37 million over 2012-2014 for a player not on the roster? If you have to bench him then do it, but either way I don't see how he's not on the roster for the future time being.

 

Personally I'd just release him, dump him.

But if we can't do that for money reasons, bench him. Only play him once a week.

If he complains, then suspend him and maybe we won't have to pay the money.

I firmly believe we can't win anything without my 3 suggestions.

Rios cannot play. He epitomizes everything that's wrong with our team.

And Dunn just can't bat 3 4 or 5. He's just too bad to hit there.

And Dayan just has to come up. Has to.

 

Sorry to repeat myself, but I've given 3 specific ways we CAN improve. What are yours??

And don't just say fire Ozzie.

Edited July 11, 2011 by greg775

[Big Hurtin]

Sox go 25-45 and finish 69-93

 

Ozzie is given an extension.

 

 

Uggh.

 

 

[Dick Allen]

Until the last five days, I thought there would be something would click at some point, but now I think it's very likely that they will play horribly post-break, get to 10 under, and then win 28 of their last 45 to make it look "respectable".

Yeah, they will finish with 82 or 83 wins and a few people will say this is part of the best stretch in White Sox history, above .500 baseball. IMO no matter how good or bad they play the second half this season, if they don't make the playoffs, this year was a failure.

 

I did vote they would do nothing, but I think something has to and will happen. I would imagine not tonight or tomorrow with the AS game, but Wed. or Thurs. I have no inside knowledge, but it would really be crazy if everything remained status quo. They are going to lose a ton of season ticket accounts if they do nothing and things don't change.

Edited July 12, 2011 by Dick Allen

[Balta1701]

Yeah, they will finish with 82 or 83 wins and a few people will say this is part of the best stretch in White Sox history, above .500 baseball. IMO no matter how good or bad they play the second half this season, if they don't make the playoffs, this year was a failure.

 

I did vote they would do nothing, but I think something has to and will happen. I would imagine not tonight or tomorrow with the AS game, but Wed. or Thurs. I have no inside knowledge, but it would really be crazy if everything remained status quo. They are going to lose a ton of season ticket accounts if they do nothing and things don't change.

If they try a major panic shakeup, they're going to lose a ton of season ticket sales anyway.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

I'm sick of Rios too, but just wondering how do you expect that to happen? No other team is dumb enough to claim him off waivers and do you really expect Reinsdorf to agree to spend $37 million over 2012-2014 for a player not on the roster? If you have to bench him then do it, but either way I don't see how he's not on the roster for the future time being.

If a team wants one of the Sox' starting pitchers they must take Rios and his salary with him. Like the way the Marlins got rid of Dontrelle Willis or that third baseman whose name escapes me at the moment - turned out good for the Red Sox but the Marlins couldn't give him away at the time.

 

I could see the Yankees possibly taking on Rios contract if they want one of the Sox starters bad enough.

[Balta1701]

If a team wants one of the Sox' starting pitchers they must take Rios and his salary with him. Like the way the Marlins got rid of Dontrelle Willis or that third baseman whose name escapes me at the moment - turned out good for the Red Sox but the Marlins couldn't give him away at the time.

 

I could see the Yankees possibly taking on Rios contract if they want one of the Sox starters bad enough.

The only team that has the money to absorb Rios and another pitcher now is the Yankees.

 

Limiting to dumping rios could prevent the sox from getting a solid offer.

[Dick Allen]

If they try a major panic shakeup, they're going to lose a ton of season ticket sales anyway.

It will be worse if they do nothing. Call someone up, put someone on the DL, anything. Just being stubborn thinking you aren't wrong is turning off a lot of people.