Sox fielding calls for Edwin Jackson

[caulfield12]

Another Matt Joyce though, we could definitely use. Then you could easily replace Quentin with Viciedo and aforementioned prospect.

[The Ginger Kid]

Am I the only one who wants to keep EJAX? Yesterdays start aside, the guy has nasty stuff. Sure he sucks sometimes, so does everyone on the staff. The sox lack a true ace.

[MexSoxFan#1]

Am I the only one who wants to keep EJAX? Yesterdays start aside, the guy has nasty stuff. Sure he sucks sometimes, so does everyone on the staff. The sox lack a true ace.

This

[spiderman]

Am I the only one who wants to keep EJAX? Yesterdays start aside, the guy has nasty stuff. Sure he sucks sometimes, so does everyone on the staff. The sox lack a true ace.

 

He's got great stuff, but isn't consistent. Yesterday was an example of what he could do when he puts things together, but more often than not, he leaves you wanting more.

 

The White Sox do lack a true ace, but I doubt Jackson is anything more than a #3 type of starter.

[iamshack]

You have to take frustration out of the equation though.

 

Something that has always driven me crazy about Hawk is how short his patience is for guys like Jose Contreras and Edwin that walk people. Yes Hawk, watching a pitcher walk people is frustrating, but so is watching Buehrle give up 15 hits.

 

Yes, Edwin is going to have some frustrating starts where he throws 115 pitches in 5 innings, but the numbers are the numbers. He's on pace for 200 innings of 4.00 ERA ball.

 

That's not worth what it has been in recent years, but it's still worth a lot. Especially come the postseason, when stuff like Edwin's tends to play very well...

[Kyyle23]

Am I the only one who wants to keep EJAX? Yesterdays start aside, the guy has nasty stuff. Sure he sucks sometimes, so does everyone on the staff. The sox lack a true ace.

 

If Boras wasnt his agent, I would be all about trying to keep him. However, Boras is going to take him to the open market and attempt to get him paid next season. The White Sox do not compete on the open market with Boras clients, they never have. So at this point, it is about getting something of value from him as opposed to letting him walk and hopefully getting a decent draft pick. But then again, draft picks havent been much of a boon for the White Sox, with a few exceptions here and there

[ILMOU]

He's got great stuff, but isn't consistent. Yesterday was an example of what he could do when he puts things together, but more often than not, he leaves you wanting more.

 

The White Sox do lack a true ace, but I doubt Jackson is anything more than a #3 type of starter.

If Boras wasnt his agent, I would be all about trying to keep him. However, Boras is going to take him to the open market and attempt to get him paid next season. The White Sox do not compete on the open market with Boras clients, they never have. So at this point, it is about getting something of value from him as opposed to letting him walk and hopefully getting a decent draft pick. But then again, draft picks havent been much of a boon for the White Sox, with a few exceptions here and there

 

 

These

Edited July 17, 2011 by Stan Bahnsen

[lostfan]

You have to take frustration out of the equation though.

 

Something that has always driven me crazy about Hawk is how short his patience is for guys like Jose Contreras and Edwin that walk people. Yes Hawk, watching a pitcher walk people is frustrating, but so is watching Buehrle give up 15 hits.

 

Yes, Edwin is going to have some frustrating starts where he throws 115 pitches in 5 innings, but the numbers are the numbers. He's on pace for 200 innings of 4.00 ERA ball.

 

That's not worth what it has been in recent years, but it's still worth a lot. Especially come the postseason, when stuff like Edwin's tends to play very well...

^^

 

There's "the dreaded leadoff walk" he always talks about but I don't like "the dreaded leadoff hit" very much, either.

[iamshack]

^^

 

There's "the dreaded leadoff walk" he always talks about but I don't like "the dreaded leadoff hit" very much, either.

You have the give credit to guys like Contreras and El Duque and Edwin for limiting their hits allowed if you're going to be on them all the time for walking guys. And while you hate to give guys free passes, last time I checked free passes are limited to one base and do not all a runner to advance from 1st to 3rd or score from 2nd.

 

Edwin has a WHIP of 1.42 this year. Mark had a 1.40 WHIP last year. And while Mark may pitch quick games and keep his defense a bit more on their toes, you'd never hear Hawk lament about the hits Mark gave up last year in a similar fashion as he'll complain about Edwin's walks.

 

Again, yes, it can be frustrating for a viewer, but you can't lose sight of the bigger picture.

 

Edwin has struggled for much of the second half with command issues, which has led to his overall struggles; but get him on track going into the postseason, and he's as dangerous as any pitcher we have. That is where giving up Dan Hudson might finally prove worth it.

[Kalapse]

Edwin has 8 quality starts in 18 outings this season which is just brutal, hell Danks has 9 in 15 outings and he's having a down year. QS may not tell you how dominant a starter is but it gives you a good idea of how often he's giving your team a chance to win and Edwin's inefficiency, lack of a third quality pitch and Javy Vazquez-esque blowups have been a problem. It's real easy to fall in love with him after an outing like yesterday but he's such an incredibly flawed pitcher.

[Balta1701]

Edwin has 8 quality starts in 18 outings this season which is just brutal, hell Danks has 9 in 15 outings and he's having a down year. QS may not tell you how dominant a starter is but it gives you a good idea of how often he's giving your team a chance to win and Edwin's inefficiency, lack of a third quality pitch and Javy Vazquez-esque blowups have been a problem. It's real easy to fall in love with him after an outing like yesterday but he's such an incredibly flawed pitcher.

If you understand what you're getting with him, a middle of the order pitcher who will throw you a good number of innings, that's fine.

 

Problem is, especially with Boras as his agent, the fact that he has a 96 mph fastball also means people will likely pay him like he's an upper rotation starter.

 

That is also the price the Sox gave up to trade for him.

[caulfield12]

So that means someone ELSE will view him the same way they view, say, AJ Burnett.

 

We could get something really nice back if he gets on a roll again. IF WE WANT.

 

 

4.66 IP/3 ER

7/4

5.33/4

6.66/4

6/4

7/4

 

He's had TWO starts which actually are one inning longer than the minimum standard for a quality start with one more run. Basically, he's had four really bad starts out of 18, or 22%.

 

In other words, in 14 out of 18 outings, he's given up 4 runs or less. With a "normal" White Sox offense, that should keep you in a majority of games.

 

That looks a lot different to me than just saying 8/18 are quality starts.

 

3.31, 2.81 and 3.27 are his ERA's over the last 3 months. That's pretty darned consistent. It's just that first month that was a huge mess, but it was for nearly the entire team after the first two weeks of the season.

 

You can put any of his stats up against Floyd or Danks and he'll come out the winner in those comparisons this season, except for walks/9 IP and wild pitches.

Edited July 17, 2011 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

You have the give credit to guys like Contreras and El Duque and Edwin for limiting their hits allowed if you're going to be on them all the time for walking guys. And while you hate to give guys free passes, last time I checked free passes are limited to one base and do not all a runner to advance from 1st to 3rd or score from 2nd.

 

Edwin has a WHIP of 1.42 this year. Mark had a 1.40 WHIP last year. And while Mark may pitch quick games and keep his defense a bit more on their toes, you'd never hear Hawk lament about the hits Mark gave up last year in a similar fashion as he'll complain about Edwin's walks.

 

Again, yes, it can be frustrating for a viewer, but you can't lose sight of the bigger picture.

 

Edwin has struggled for much of the second half with command issues, which has led to his overall struggles; but get him on track going into the postseason, and he's as dangerous as any pitcher we have. That is where giving up Dan Hudson might finally prove worth it.

 

Which means Buehrle doesn't allow his runners to score and Edwin does.

[iamshack]

Edwin has 8 quality starts in 18 outings this season which is just brutal, hell Danks has 9 in 15 outings and he's having a down year. QS may not tell you how dominant a starter is but it gives you a good idea of how often he's giving your team a chance to win and Edwin's inefficiency, lack of a third quality pitch and Javy Vazquez-esque blowups have been a problem. It's real easy to fall in love with him after an outing like yesterday but he's such an incredibly flawed pitcher.

Yeah, but that depends on your definition of "quality start" and "giving you a chance to win."

 

He's had 5 starts where he's given up 4 runs. Not exactly blowups.

 

In 3 of his 18 outings, he's given up more than 4 runs this year. I'd say that is giving us a chance to win.

 

Danks has given up more than 4 runs in 3 of his 15 outings, and now he is injured, so clearly he is not giving us a chance to win.

 

Gavin has given up more than 4 runs in 5 of his 18 starts this season.

Jake has given up more than 4 runs 3 times in 9 starts.

Mark, who has been outstanding, has given up more than 4 runs only twice in 18 starts.

Humber, only once in 16 starts.

 

So yeah, the definition of a quality start is 3 runs or less in 6 or more innings pitched, but saying Edwin didn't give us a chance to win because he's given up 4 runs in 5 of his starts is skewing the context quite a bit.

Edited July 17, 2011 by iamshack

[iamshack]

Which means Buehrle doesn't allow his runners to score and Edwin does.

No, look more closely at the post. I said Buehrle last year. Not this year. Last year Mark had a slightly lower WHIP and a slightly higher ERA than Edwin has this year.

 

Edwin allowed less of his runners to score than Buehrle, possibly because Mark's WHIP was more heavily influenced by hits allowed and Edwin's walks allowed.

[lostfan]

Which means Buehrle doesn't allow his runners to score and Edwin does.

No, not necessarily (shack beat me to it)

[caulfield12]

Trade Jackson if we're not within 5 games back on July 31st.

 

In all likelihood, we'll have 3 teams ahead of us at that point...the odds will be against any type of comeback.

[Marty34]

I hope they start fielding calls for Ramirez. Sell high before being stuck with another bad contract.

[gatnom]

You have the give credit to guys like Contreras and El Duque and Edwin for limiting their hits allowed if you're going to be on them all the time for walking guys. And while you hate to give guys free passes, last time I checked free passes are limited to one base and do not all a runner to advance from 1st to 3rd or score from 2nd.

 

Edwin has a WHIP of 1.42 this year. Mark had a 1.40 WHIP last year. And while Mark may pitch quick games and keep his defense a bit more on their toes, you'd never hear Hawk lament about the hits Mark gave up last year in a similar fashion as he'll complain about Edwin's walks.

 

Again, yes, it can be frustrating for a viewer, but you can't lose sight of the bigger picture.

 

Edwin has struggled for much of the second half with command issues, which has led to his overall struggles; but get him on track going into the postseason, and he's as dangerous as any pitcher we have. That is where giving up Dan Hudson might finally prove worth it.

 

It sounds to me like you're making more of an argument as to why Buehrle isn't great than as to why Jackson is. Also, Your last statement goes both ways, shack. He is just as likely to have his dominating stuff as he is to throw 100 pitches by the 5th inning.

 

 

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

I hope they start fielding calls for Ramirez. Sell high before being stuck with another bad contract.

 

Alexei Ramirez? Are you kidding me dude?

Alexei has been worth more already this year as his contract pays him in 2011, 2012, and 2013 combined.

Edited July 17, 2011 by JoeCoolMan24

[DirtySox]

I hope they start fielding calls for Ramirez. Sell high before being stuck with another bad contract.

 

wat

[Quin]

I hope they start fielding calls for Ramirez. Sell high before being stuck with another bad contract.

 

I never understand your Alexei hate.

 

Who are you gonna replace him with?

 

If you say Beckham to SS, Eduardo Escobar, then you're downgrading.

 

You say Tulowitzki, Hanley Ramirez, Asdrubal Cabrera, or Jose Reyes, then you're kidding yourself.

 

Anyone else, a downgrade.

[iamshack]

It sounds to me like you're making more of an argument as to why Buehrle isn't great than as to why Jackson is. Also, Your last statement goes both ways, shack. He is just as likely to have his dominating stuff as he is to throw 100 pitches by the 5th inning.

Not at all...I'm just saying that for as much as Hawk never complains about the hits Buehrle gives up, he is a broken record of criticism about SP's who walk guys.

 

All in all, many times the guy who frustratingly walks guys isn't giving up as many runs as a guy who gets hit around instead of putting guys on.

[Marty34]

No hatred really. I just believe Ramirez' perceived value is much greater than his actual value. Those are the kind of players you deal when you rebuild.

Edited July 17, 2011 by Marty34

[caulfield12]

And Hanley Ramirez has had quite a few attitude issues that need readjusting.

 

His overall offensive stats this season still aren't better than Ramirez....and Alexei is on a completely different plane as a fielding SS.