sox-r-us Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 Both Nelson and Benitez passed waivers for the trade to be consumated between the Yanks and Ms. My question is why did we not pick up Nelson? On another note, why did the Bo Sox, As, Minnesota or Royals either pick any of these guys up? Seattle and Yanks were the last two teams on the waiver list due to their records. I know Nelson is a free agent after the season, but come on. The salary cannot be much for the remainder of the season. Imagine Gordon, Marte and Nelson as the top 3 in the bullpen, with Wunsch as lefty specialist. I am very bummed by this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bighurt52235 Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 That's what I was wondering. How could nobody claim either of those two. I would have loved to have got Nelson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonkeyKongerko Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 Nelson is I think 4 million or something. He is one of the most expensive middle relievers in the game and very few teams are willing to add that kind of salary at this point in the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox-r-us Posted August 8, 2003 Author Share Posted August 8, 2003 The Yanks and Ms wanted to make this trade on July 31 but for whatever reason it did not happen. But the point still stands, why did Kenny not stop this by just taking Nelson off the wire. Of course, Seattle would have the right to take him off the wire and the Sox would not get him, but at least that would have prevented the Yanks from getting him. I am thinking we are building to go deep in the playoffs (if we get there), not for a one and out We could easily face the Yanks if the wildcard is Boston as Boston and Yanks cannot plan in the first round The Yanks had one weakness and kenny let them fill it up That sucks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 Nope, it doesn't work that way. I'm not sure how to explain it because I'm not fully sure of how it works, but a team is allowed to "protect" a player that is put on waivers, so they can have first dibs on him in the event that he is released. Both the Yankees and M's agreed ahead of time that they would swap players, so no other team had a shot at claiming them. Officially it goes down as 2 players being picked up off of waivers, but effectively it was a trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Showtime Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 Well, here is how it works: Warning from the surgeon general: Trying to make sense of baseball's waiver system can be hazardous to your mental health. There are all kinds of waivers for all different occasions. But essentially, here is how waiver deals can be made between Aug. 1 and the Aug. 31 deadline for setting potential playoff rosters: Virtually every player in the major leagues will be placed on waivers this month, whether a team intends to trade that player or not. If nothing else, the sheer volume of names can at least disguise players whom clubs do want to sneak through so they can be dealt. If a player isn't claimed by any team in either league, he can be traded until the end of the month to anyone. If a player is claimed, but only by one team, the player can be traded only to the team that claims him. If a player is claimed by more than one team, the club with the worst record in that player's league gets priority -- and the player can be traded only to that team. If a player is claimed only by teams in the other league, the club with the worst record in the other league gets priority -- and the player can be traded just to that team. If a deal can't be worked out or the team doesn't want to trade that player, he can be pulled back off waivers once in August. If he is placed on waivers again before September, he can't be recalled a second time. Or, if a team is just hoping to dump a player's salary, it can simply allow a team which claimed that player to have him for a small waiver fee. If that happens, the team that gets the player has to pay his entire salary. That's how the Yankees were stuck with Jose Canseco and the Padres were stuck with Randy Myers in recent years: They claimed those players, thinking they were just blocking other teams from getting them. Instead, their old clubs said: "You claimed him. You got him." In the past, many teams claimed players just to keep them from being traded to contenders with a better record. This year, that isn't expected to happen as often, because most teams can't afford to get stuck with a big contract if they're awarded a player they really didn't want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox-r-us Posted August 8, 2003 Author Share Posted August 8, 2003 Which is why i feel Kenny should have picked up Nelson. He is worth paying for. He is the difference right now between us losing in the first round or no With him in the team, the game could be made into a 6-7 inning game. He and Marte could finish any team off inthe first round of the playoffs. Best case we got him and paid for him. Worst case, Ms would pull him back off waivers, but they would not be able to trade him to the Yanks either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 Which is why i feel Kenny should have picked up Nelson. He is worth paying for. He is the difference right now between us losing in the first round or no With him in the team, the game could be made into a 6-7 inning game. He and Marte could finish any team off inthe first round of the playoffs. Best case we got him and paid for him. Worst case, Ms would pull him back off waivers, but they would not be able to trade him to the Yanks either. The Sox could-not-have-picked-up-Nelson. I heard the explanation on ESPN Radio as to how it works, but I just can't remember all the details. But, the Yanks and M's had this deal worked out, and no other team could have jumped in and f***ed it up. Don't you think Boston would have tried to ruin it if they could have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox-r-us Posted August 8, 2003 Author Share Posted August 8, 2003 Which is why i feel Kenny should have picked up Nelson. He is worth paying for. He is the difference right now between us losing in the first round or no With him in the team, the game could be made into a 6-7 inning game. He and Marte could finish any team off inthe first round of the playoffs. Best case we got him and paid for him. Worst case, Ms would pull him back off waivers, but they would not be able to trade him to the Yanks either. The Sox could-not-have-picked-up-Nelson. I heard the explanation on ESPN Radio as to how it works, but I just can't remember all the details. But, the Yanks and M's had this deal worked out, and no other team could have jumped in and f***ed it up. Don't you think Boston would have tried to ruin it if they could have? That is BS. I live in Oregon, and the Ms GM said if any team had picked him up, they would have pulled him back from the waiver wire. In that case, they could not trade him. Sorry, but you are wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 Which is why i feel Kenny should have picked up Nelson. He is worth paying for. He is the difference right now between us losing in the first round or no With him in the team, the game could be made into a 6-7 inning game. He and Marte could finish any team off inthe first round of the playoffs. Best case we got him and paid for him. Worst case, Ms would pull him back off waivers, but they would not be able to trade him to the Yanks either. The Sox could-not-have-picked-up-Nelson. I heard the explanation on ESPN Radio as to how it works, but I just can't remember all the details. But, the Yanks and M's had this deal worked out, and no other team could have jumped in and f***ed it up. Don't you think Boston would have tried to ruin it if they could have? That is BS. I live in Oregon, and the Ms GM said if any team had picked him up, they would have pulled him back from the waiver wire. In that case, they could not trade him. Sorry, but you are wrong. If the information I told you is wrong, it's ESPN that's wrong, not me. I think they know more about it than both of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 Well, here is how it works: Warning from the surgeon general: Trying to make sense of baseball's waiver system can be hazardous to your mental health. There are all kinds of waivers for all different occasions. But essentially, here is how waiver deals can be made between Aug. 1 and the Aug. 31 deadline for setting potential playoff rosters: Virtually every player in the major leagues will be placed on waivers this month, whether a team intends to trade that player or not. If nothing else, the sheer volume of names can at least disguise players whom clubs do want to sneak through so they can be dealt. If a player isn't claimed by any team in either league, he can be traded until the end of the month to anyone. If a player is claimed, but only by one team, the player can be traded only to the team that claims him. If a player is claimed by more than one team, the club with the worst record in that player's league gets priority -- and the player can be traded only to that team. If a player is claimed only by teams in the other league, the club with the worst record in the other league gets priority -- and the player can be traded just to that team. If a deal can't be worked out or the team doesn't want to trade that player, he can be pulled back off waivers once in August. If he is placed on waivers again before September, he can't be recalled a second time. Or, if a team is just hoping to dump a player's salary, it can simply allow a team which claimed that player to have him for a small waiver fee. If that happens, the team that gets the player has to pay his entire salary. That's how the Yankees were stuck with Jose Canseco and the Padres were stuck with Randy Myers in recent years: They claimed those players, thinking they were just blocking other teams from getting them. Instead, their old clubs said: "You claimed him. You got him." In the past, many teams claimed players just to keep them from being traded to contenders with a better record. This year, that isn't expected to happen as often, because most teams can't afford to get stuck with a big contract if they're awarded a player they really didn't want. Thanks for this, very informative. Nice job! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox-r-us Posted August 8, 2003 Author Share Posted August 8, 2003 Which is why i feel Kenny should have picked up Nelson. He is worth paying for. He is the difference right now between us losing in the first round or no With him in the team, the game could be made into a 6-7 inning game. He and Marte could finish any team off inthe first round of the playoffs. Best case we got him and paid for him. Worst case, Ms would pull him back off waivers, but they would not be able to trade him to the Yanks either. The Sox could-not-have-picked-up-Nelson. I heard the explanation on ESPN Radio as to how it works, but I just can't remember all the details. But, the Yanks and M's had this deal worked out, and no other team could have jumped in and f***ed it up. Don't you think Boston would have tried to ruin it if they could have? That is BS. I live in Oregon, and the Ms GM said if any team had picked him up, they would have pulled him back from the waiver wire. In that case, they could not trade him. Sorry, but you are wrong. If the information I told you is wrong, it's ESPN that's wrong, not me. I think they know more about it than both of us. The Ms GM knows more, trust me. Also, read what Mr Showtime has posted. It is consistent with my post. Also, if any two teams could make deals like that, then there would be no point having a trade deadline. Think about it..... There is no such thing as two teams having a deal to trade that no one else can do anything about. Other teams simply passed on both of them. The Ms GM said the same. Trust me he knows, it is his job Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 One other note about waiver claims..... There are also times when teams will let a guy go by knowing he is about to be traded in a "gentleman's agreement" so that another time the player they want will be left alone. This may or may not be the case here, but it is possible. Perhaps KW owed someone a favor? Perhaps he felt that a swap of Benitez for Nelson didn't make that big of a difference for either team so he passed? There could be lots of reasons which of course we will never know unless KW wants us to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 i think that anyone who is on the waiver list can be selected. if the team, who put the player in the waiver, doesn't want him back can reclaim him. however, if they did not want to lose him, then he could have been pulled back. we talked about this before the trade deadline was done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 according to what rex said, is another situation that i forgot to mention. but other teams do block the suppose rumor of a trade to pervent the other team from getting better. however maybe kw did owe someone a favor(yanks for the colon deal) to prevent one team from getting better or getting better ourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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