Kenny Williams Wish List

[LittleHurt05]

Again, if we're rebuilding, who cares?

 

Guess it doesn't matter, but if that replacement is a young pitcher, might as well let him pitch the whole season anyway?

[Balta1701]

Guess it doesn't matter, but if that replacement is a young pitcher, might as well let him pitch the whole season anyway?

If we had anyone not named Chris Sale who was ready, sure. When that Ramirez guy in the bullpen is the next in line though, the cupboard is sorta bare.

[southsider2k5]

Priorities kiddo, priorities. Clearing $18 million of the money remaining on Rios's deal would be a much bigger priority to me than Morel playing every day in the bigs.

 

Plus, at some point, perhaps mid next year, Young would be moveable again, just depends on how much we want to chip in to make it happen.

 

Wasting years is a bigger priority for you? Not for me. I don't want to go back to the days of no payroll and less fans.

[Balta1701]

Wasting years is a bigger priority for you? Not for me. I don't want to go back to the days of no payroll and less fans.

We're already wasting years, and if we're paying Alex Rios $14 mil a year for 3 more years, then we're making a strong effort at wasting those years too.

[LittleHurt05]

If we had anyone not named Chris Sale who was ready, sure. When that Ramirez guy in the bullpen is the next in line though, the cupboard is sorta bare.

 

Good point. Maybe Dayan Viciedo can pitch too?

[Eminor3rd]

If the Sox go cheap next year, Erik Bedard as a FA option wouldn't make me mad, esp. if Cooper is still here.

 

Bedard's problem has never been pitching well, it's been pitching at all. Between him and Peavy, we'd need a competent 6th starter to cover 25 games.

[caulfield12]

Ramirez in the bullpen?

 

Santiago?

[harfman77]

Basically we owe Rios $43 million more dollars (including buyout and $1 million per season salary increase in the case of a trade b4 2014)

 

Young would cost us $24 million through the end of next season.

 

Obviously Young would be a huge upgrade over Morel at 3B, but...

 

Who would play CF? You're going to have to make another trade/acquisition or play some combination of Lillibridge/DeAza/Danks in CF. Assuming we kept Quentin and Viciedo together, the huge premium would then go to finding a CFer who could play stout defense to make up for the shortcomings on either side of him.

 

So let's say you trade Rios and Jackson for Young. That makes sense. But trading Rios and Floyd for Young, that puts our entire rotation into flux for 2012 because then we'd only have Danks (maybe), Humber, Peavy and Sale (???) and another ??? at the 5th spot. Who knows what ends up happening with Buehrle.

I don't think he would want to stay if he knew he was going to be part of a 2-3 year rebuilding/restructuring effort.

 

 

Indications in the rumor that I read was that the Rangers would include Julio Borbon in a deal for a CF, since he would essentially be blocked anyway. Obviously the big loser is Brent Morel as he would be in limbo for the next 30 months, but as much as like him, he really wouldn't be hurt with more time to work on his hitting. I love his approach but not so much the results. If he sets the world on fire at AAA you could perhaps move him for another piece, but that is a big if. I think Floyd is probably not the pitcher to be dealt it would more likely be Danks or Jackson. With Danks you would get back some of Texas' stacked minor league pitching or with Jackson you get a minor prospect and move on.

 

As far as money goes, Young is owed $40M through 2013, Rios would be owed $38.5M through 2014 with a $1.5M buyout, so the money is basically the same, the difference is in how it is paid.

[caulfield12]

Yeah, I made a big mistake on the Young contract, for some reason I was thinking it was for 1 1/2 years but it would be 2 1/2 actually.

 

 

 

11:$12M, 12:$12M, 13:$12.5M, 14:$12.5M, 15:$13.5M club option ($1M buyout)

 

may block trades to 6 clubs beginning in 2009

 

if traded between beginning of 2011 season and Spring Training 2014, future salaries increase by $0.5M each

Cot's Baseball Contracts/source

 

Alex Rios $4 million for 2011 (remainder), $39.5 million for 2012-2014 (including buyout and increases for each season in event of trade)

$43.5 million

 

Young would be 16 + 16 + $5.333=$37.33 million

 

It's a lot closer than I calculated earlier....but still the Rangers would be taking on $6 extra million.

 

On one hand, Young is much more likely to pay off than Rios. However, is that really worth Danks in this pitching market? Just to get back Borbon and/or prospects? Obviously depends on who those prospects are, ofc.

 

I think trading Danks sends a pretty strong message we're not going to be "All In" again for 2012.

 

And Daniels isn't going to watch another "young John Danks" traded to the White Sox again. He'll be much more careful about any young pitching they would part with in a possible trade.

 

Undoubtedly, Young would make up for any pop that Rios MIGHT provide, but that's a pretty weak offensive outfield with Pierre and Borbon, especially if you're considering trading Quentin. If you keep both Quentin and Viciedo in the fold, it's a lot more workable.

 

 

Edited July 14, 2011 by caulfield12

[kitekrazy]

Clearing $18 million of the money remaining on Rios's deal would be a much bigger priority to me than Morel playing every day in the bigs.

 

That task has to be close to impossible.

 

[kitekrazy]

And Daniels isn't going to watch another "young John Danks" traded to the White Sox again. He'll be much more careful about any young pitching they would part with in a possible trade.

 

Note to Kenny.

 

[kitekrazy]

Hopefully Al Davis will give Kenny a call and we can see what Hahn can do.

[kwolf68]

 

Kenny did a brilliant job building the 05 squad, but he's a joke now and his baseball card collecting of players and free agents instead of organizational development and patience (which may be partly our fault) has become the albatross of the Sox org....we're a dying franchise...we are loaded with old, slow, overrated and overplaid players.

 

The White Sox need to look at the Blackhawks and see that you can win it all and then a couple years later still have one of the best franchises in the sport complete with a loaded minor league system.

 

Basically, the Blackhawks bad years they'll still be a playoff team...the White Sox bad years they'll lose 90+ games.

 

 

[winninguglyin83]

Kenny Williams Jr. plays LF next season

[caulfield12]

Except in all fairness, we've never had those 90 loss seasons, except for 2007.

 

And we followed that up with 89 and a playoff appearance.

 

Yeah, of course if we go into full rebuilding, it will look like the late 90's or 1985-1989. Attendance will be abysmal, bottom 5-7 in the majors but we'd still have at least #12-18 revenue because of the local media rights and higher prices across the board than every market but NY and Boston.

 

This is ONE big reason to be optimistic. The fact that attendance is currently trending back to 20-30% of total revenues expected in any given year, rather than 45-60%.

 

We don't have to cut all the way back down to $50-65 million, and JR and the front office are smart enough to know that won't fly when you've been spending nearly twice that. You can still have a very competitive team in the AL Central at $90-105 million.

 

The Twins are hamstrung now with the Mauer and Morneau deals. They might lose Liriano, Pavano and Kubel and/or Cuddyer soon. You can see how it affected them, they had to shed Hardy/Hudson and their entire bullpen because of payroll issues, this after the first year in their new stadium with sellout crowds almost every game. The Royals are still way behind in producing starting pitchers who can win consistently. The Tigers look a lot more like the White Sox than a young, rising team like the Indians. And the Indians still aren't drawing nearly enough fans to be able to go out and acquire too much in the trade market...they can't afford to add pieces like Beltran yet.

Edited July 15, 2011 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

Kenny did a brilliant job building the 05 squad, but he's a joke now and his baseball card collecting of players and free agents instead of organizational development and patience (which may be partly our fault) has become the albatross of the Sox org....we're a dying franchise...we are loaded with old, slow, overrated and overplaid players.

 

The White Sox need to look at the Blackhawks and see that you can win it all and then a couple years later still have one of the best franchises in the sport complete with a loaded minor league system.

 

Basically, the Blackhawks bad years they'll still be a playoff team...the White Sox bad years they'll lose 90+ games.

 

That is pretty ironic considering the Hawks history before the Cup year.

[GreenSox]

With Pierre done after this season, Morel not showing many signs of improvement, and the lack of any real lead off hitter in the organization, if the Mariners were to eat a large portion of Figgins contract, I see Williams regrettably jumping all over it.

That would be very regrettable.

It's so Sox to quit on a young player (who plays very good D) after a whole half a season.

 

I would hope we've learned our lesson on declining veterans.

Edited July 15, 2011 by GreenSox

[nickofypres]

Kenny did a brilliant job building the 05 squad, but he's a joke now and his baseball card collecting of players and free agents instead of organizational development and patience (which may be partly our fault) has become the albatross of the Sox org....we're a dying franchise...we are loaded with old, slow, overrated and overplaid players.

 

Humber, Floyd, Danks, Santos, Sale, Santiago, Flowers, Beckham, Viciedo, Ramirez, Morel, Lillibridge and Quentin say hi.

 

Crain, Ohman are reasonably signed.

 

Konerko, Peavy, Dunn, Rios, Buerhle, Pierre, Teahen, Vizquel, Castro and Pierzynski are slow, overrated and overplaid players. But to be fair if Dunn, Rios and Peavy were performing their career norms the money invested wouldn't be such a big deal, and did anyone really expect Dunn and Rios to drop off? I didn't.

 

After this season Pierre, Castro, Buerhle, Jackson and Vizquel are off the books and after next season Teabag and AJ are off the books.

 

So we're not exactly screwed down the road. If we can get another starter for next season I think we'd be okay till we're relieved of the money after 2012, then our only major investments are Peavy, Rios, Dunn and Konerko, and by then Peavy, Rios and Dunn could, and I'd hope they would be, back to producing again and we'll still have Santos, Sale, Santiago, Flowers, Beckham, Viciedo, Ramirez, Morel, Lillibridge. Basically a few starters, a bench and a bullpen arm or two.

 

 

[Balta1701]

That is pretty ironic considering the Hawks history before the Cup year.

Yeah, to get to that point, the Hawks suffered through what, probably 15 of the worst years imaginable for fans of a sports franchise?

[southsider2k5]

Yeah, to get to that point, the Hawks suffered through what, probably 15 of the worst years imaginable for fans of a sports franchise?

 

There were some horrible years in there for sure, including horrible drafting, letting the faces of the franchise walk away, bad signings, and playing to an empty house on a regular basis.

[GreenSox]

Michael Young plays terrible defense. If we're going to trade guys like Danks, you do it for next year.

 

As it is, we're going to have a solid pitching staff next year, so we should still be competitive, especially in this division. Trade Danks or Quentin to get some outfield upgrades or a YOUNG third baseman (since we're so convinced Morel is useless).

[gatnom]

Yeah, to get to that point, the Hawks suffered through what, probably 15 of the worst years imaginable for fans of a sports franchise?

 

I can't remember which, but I'm pretty sure some publication labeled them as the worst franchise in professional sports.

 

I'm generally not a fan of comparing teams across sports, though. It's just apples and oranges.

 

 

[macsandz]

If you can clear out Rios's contract, you don't care who you put in CF this year, that spot is fillable with developmental people if you do a full rebuild or a FA bandaid next year.

 

Personally I'd still like to see De Aza and the Stealth Elf get regular playing time to see what they can do.

 

Anybody that thinks we can lose Rios at this point is on crack.

[PorkChopExpress]

I see Wily Mo Pena is available.

Edited July 15, 2011 by PorkChopExpress

[Balta1701]

Anybody that thinks we can lose Rios at this point is on crack.

If Vernon Wells is moveable for actual return, then anything is possible.