The Sir Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 (edited) Freedom From Religion Foundation files federal lawsuit against Rick Perry for Prayer Day. EDIT: This is the correct link. The other one is relevant and interesting, but this is the lawsuit one. I'm sure most of you will think it's silly that he's going to an event to pray our problems away. Hell, I'm a fan of God myself, but He's not going to make the debt go away or reduce the deficit. So I'd prefer more practical solutions from our politicians. That said, he's entitled to his religious beliefs. It'd be one thing if he were using taxpayer funds for this. But he's not. As the article states, it's privately funded. So he's going on his own time, on his own dime. No one is being forced to attend. So this group's claim that he's breaking the constitutional prohibition against the establishment of a national religion is just idiotic. It seems to me that this group and others like it just want to ban acts of Christianity. Seven in Heaven Way in Manhattan, and a politician attending a religious event on his own time and dime, etc...these are not acts that establish a national religion. They are just people expressing religious beliefs which isn't outlawed anywhere. Not in this country, at least. Also, it's funny that the same group that raised a fuss about that street in NYC went out on the 4th of July and flew planes with banners saying "Godless America" and "Atheism is Patriotic". They're free to do that as far as I'm concerned, but it looks incredibly bad when the same group rages against similar displays of Christianity. Hypocrisy, anyone? Again, I will stress that I don't really care if people are atheists. I don't care if atheists want to spend their own time and money throwing conventions and Days of Non-Prayer and Non-Fasting. Your atheism doesn't affect me; that's between you and God. And if you believe He doesn't exist, well, that's your perogative. But I've always been annoyed by atheists who try to stop Christians from practicing their beliefs, which is what is going on here. And the fact that the do things like I mentioned in the previous paragraph, where they're holding themselves to one standard and Christians to another, that just pisses me the Hell off. Edited July 14, 2011 by FlySox87 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I read the whole article and couldnt find a mention of lawsuit (federal or otherwise). I read that people were critical of his decision and I believe that they, like Perry, are free to express their opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sir Posted July 14, 2011 Author Share Posted July 14, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 13, 2011 -> 08:51 PM) I read the whole article and couldnt find a mention of lawsuit (federal or otherwise). I read that people were critical of his decision and I believe that they, like Perry, are free to express their opinions. Did I post the wrong damn article? Whoops. Here ya go. I read about the lawsuit, and then searched for other articles to find out where the funding came from. Which I managed to do with the NYT one. And then I sort of forgot that the NYT didn't mention the lawsuit that was my big issue to begin with. Criticism is fine, but this lawsuit is clearly a move to deny Perry of his beliefs and that is not acceptable. My bad. Edited July 14, 2011 by FlySox87 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I think its a strained argument at best. If Perry went to his regular church and got on stage and said a few words, Im not sure that really is the equivalent of state sponsored religion. So as long as there is no connection between Texas and the event, I dont really see why Perry being Governor is relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sir Posted July 14, 2011 Author Share Posted July 14, 2011 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 13, 2011 -> 09:12 PM) I think its a strained argument at best. If Perry went to his regular church and got on stage and said a few words, Im not sure that really is the equivalent of state sponsored religion. So as long as there is no connection between Texas and the event, I dont really see why Perry being Governor is relevant. I can respect that. You actually respect freedom of religion, even when it's not your religion and your beliefs at stake. I'm cool with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Thinking I'm agreeing with FlySox here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I'm agreeing with Fly as well. But it's Perry, so this has to be shown. QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 1, 2011 -> 01:35 PM) Ok, Tex is baiting me, so I'm stealing this one. On April 21, Rick Perry asked Texans to pray for rain that would help end the drought and fires in Texas. Here is a graphic of the Texas drought conditions at that time. Here is what the drought conditions in Texas are this week. God is strongly opposed to helping out Rick Perry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilMonkey Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Unless it has to do with raising taxes, democrats want no religion other than Islam anywhere near politics. THAT, they seem to have no problem with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSox05 Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Yes, all of us on the left hate christians and love muslims. We are atheist commie muslims who just want to raise taxes and ban jesus. praise to allah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonWeltall Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Jul 14, 2011 -> 04:18 AM) Unless it has to do with raising taxes, democrats want no religion other than Islam anywhere near politics. THAT, they seem to have no problem with. Bulls***. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Jul 13, 2011 -> 11:18 PM) Unless it has to do with raising taxes, democrats want no religion other than Islam anywhere near politics. THAT, they seem to have no problem with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Here's the press release from FFRF The website for The Response, linked from the governor’s official website, http://www.governor.state.tx.us, conveys Gov. Perry’s hope that the prayer rally will provide divine guidance to the nation, and Perry’s videotaped invitation to join him on Aug. 6 to turn to Jesus and ask for God’s forgiveness. The homepage bears Perry’s open invitation as governor to “fellow Americans” to join him and other “praying people” in “asking God’s forgiveness, wisdom and provision for our state and nation. There is hope for America. It lies in heaven, and we will find it on our knees. It shouldn't be linked from the Governor's official website, imo. And there needs to be a clear difference between Rick Perry the Governor of Texas and Rick Perry, Evangelical Christian in the promotion of the event. I think that's where there problem lies: he's using his position to endorse and promote a religious event, blurring the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I'm going to pray to Zeus, Flash Gordon, Bilbo Baggins, Bigfoot, and Xena Warrior Princess that Texas breaks off and floats away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 QUOTE (GoSox05 @ Jul 14, 2011 -> 08:33 AM) Yes, all of us on the left hate christians and love muslims. We are atheist commie muslims who just want to raise taxes and ban jesus. praise to allah. Islam is the Light, PBUH. Gingrich actually did try to claim that secularization will also lead to radical islam running the country! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jul 14, 2011 -> 09:39 AM) Here's the press release from FFRF It shouldn't be linked from the Governor's official website, imo. And there needs to be a clear difference between Rick Perry the Governor of Texas and Rick Perry, Evangelical Christian in the promotion of the event. I think that's where there problem lies: he's using his position to endorse and promote a religious event, blurring the line. I dunno...what does it count as if a public official, for example, were to urge people to pray for something? Or were to give advantages to religious organizations like tax-exempt status? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 14, 2011 -> 08:41 AM) I dunno...what does it count as if a public official, for example, were to urge people to pray for something? Or were to give advantages to religious organizations like tax-exempt status? Well at the bare minimum linking from the official government site gives explicit endorsement from the state of Texas for the event. That should absolutely be removed. And if the promotion of the event implies that the State of Texas is endorsing it, that's also problematic. File that under the "under God" and "In God We Trust" stuff for me, though: shouldn't be there, hopefully it's removed eventually but it's really not worth worrying over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jul 14, 2011 -> 09:44 AM) Well at the bare minimum linking from the official government site gives explicit endorsement from the state of Texas for the event. That should absolutely be removed. And if the promotion of the event implies that the State of Texas is endorsing it, that's also problematic. File that under the "under God" and "In God We Trust" stuff for me, though: shouldn't be there, hopefully it's removed eventually but it's really not worth worrying over. I could come up with hypotheticals all day if I wanted...but here's sorta my thinking. The Governor of Texas is presumably allowed to spend state funds to attend events that the Governor of Texas wants to attend. The Governor of Texas is also allowed to spend funds to publicize actions of the Governor of Texas. Given those 2 facts, I can't really criticize strongly the use of state funds to publicize an event involving the governor of Texas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 That seems like an easy skip away from being able to openly promote a specific religion with state funds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jul 14, 2011 -> 09:55 AM) That seems like an easy skip away from being able to openly promote a specific religion with state funds. You're never going to get fully around that though. An Executive or a Congressman is constantly allowed to promote things the Congressperson does using state funds. If a Congressperson attends a church and puts that church on their schedule, they're promoting that church. If Keith Ellison goes somewhere and gives a speech about Islam, then somewhere along the line the state is paying to support Islam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 14, 2011 -> 08:59 AM) You're never going to get fully around that though. An Executive or a Congressman is constantly allowed to promote things the Congressperson does using state funds. If a Congressperson attends a church and puts that church on their schedule, they're promoting that church. If Keith Ellison goes somewhere and gives a speech about Islam, then somewhere along the line the state is paying to support Islam. Well in my mind there's a clear demarcation between that and actively promoting a religious event on the official Governor of Texas website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sir Posted July 14, 2011 Author Share Posted July 14, 2011 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jul 14, 2011 -> 07:39 AM) Here's the press release from FFRF It shouldn't be linked from the Governor's official website, imo. And there needs to be a clear difference between Rick Perry the Governor of Texas and Rick Perry, Evangelical Christian in the promotion of the event. I think that's where there problem lies: he's using his position to endorse and promote a religious event, blurring the line. I disagree. No one is forced to attend, and no tax dollars are funding this thing. The Constitution doesn't prohibit politicians from being openly religious. That's not the goal of the First Amendment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jul 14, 2011 -> 08:40 AM) I'm going to pray to Zeus, Flash Gordon, Bilbo Baggins, Bigfoot, and Xena Warrior Princess that Texas breaks off and floats away. I'm doing the same with California. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 14, 2011 -> 08:49 AM) I could come up with hypotheticals all day if I wanted...but here's sorta my thinking. The Governor of Texas is presumably allowed to spend state funds to attend events that the Governor of Texas wants to attend. The Governor of Texas is also allowed to spend funds to publicize actions of the Governor of Texas. Given those 2 facts, I can't really criticize strongly the use of state funds to publicize an event involving the governor of Texas. Which means anytime Barack goes to church, you should be upset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 14, 2011 -> 10:10 AM) Which means anytime Barack goes to church, you should be upset. Do you even bother reading what I write any more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sir Posted July 14, 2011 Author Share Posted July 14, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 14, 2011 -> 07:49 AM) The Governor of Texas is presumably allowed to spend state funds to attend events that the Governor of Texas wants to attend. The Governor of Texas is also allowed to spend funds to publicize actions of the Governor of Texas. Given those 2 facts, I can't really criticize strongly the use of state funds to publicize an event involving the governor of Texas. Really? I did not know this. Well, have a blast, Rick Perry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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