southsider2k5 Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 08:51 AM) Throwing a guy every other day for eight days is a different workload than throwing him twice in back to back games over eight days, yet it shows up statistically as the exact same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 So please give me something, anything, the slightest nugget of evidence to suggest that Ozzie is doing that in a way that the other 29 managers in MLB aren't rather than just repeating it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 19, 2011 -> 01:28 PM) I'm with you on that. I'd actually cancel our season tickets for 2012 if that happened. Having said that, there is no way KW trades Viciedo. He refused to give him up last year. Don't remember hearing that he was being offered in trade talks in the past. IMO, Viciedo is one of KW's last signs of credibility as a GM. If he becomes a star hitter, it will take off some of the heat from some of his other moves, such as the Hudson deal. Why do you insist that Kenny would never trade Viciedo? Because that would make Kenny look stupid? Or incompetent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulstar Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Of all the things wrong with this team, is there really a heated argument over Crain's workload? Do the Sox need another reliable righty reliever? Definitely, but that is at least no. 6 or 7 on a long list of needs. And Crain hasn't been overused. Oz has actually done a great job of not overusing certain guys in the bullpen this year, and I'll give him credit for that, as much as it pains me to see Brian Bruney out there in the 7th or 8th in a tied or close ball game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 09:31 AM) So please give me something, anything, the slightest nugget of evidence to suggest that Ozzie is doing that in a way that the other 29 managers in MLB aren't rather than just repeating it. No other teams have relievers who get hurt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 10:41 AM) No other teams have relievers who get hurt? Well clearly not the 40+ relievers who have had more appearances than Crain this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 09:53 AM) Well clearly not the 40+ relievers who have had more appearances than Crain this season. I really think you are being intentionally obtuse for the sake of squeezing a few more posts out of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 10:56 AM) I really think you are being intentionally obtuse for the sake of squeezing a few more posts out of this. I think you are. You're adamant that something is being done wrong but you can provide zero evidence for it. I think Ozzie probably ought to use his bullpen guys more, not less, and there is very little blame on this manager for bullpen guys who get hurt. I'd also be convinced if someone could prove to me that our key bullpen guys get hurt more often than those for other teams, but again, I'm still waiting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 10:00 AM) I think you are. You're adamant that something is being done wrong but you can provide zero evidence for it. I think Ozzie probably ought to use his bullpen guys more, not less, and there is very little blame on this manager for bullpen guys who get hurt. I'd also be convinced if someone could prove to me that our key bullpen guys get hurt more often than those for other teams, but again, I'm still waiting. So are you going to go through game films and game logs to prove you are right? Really you haven't proven anything that is already refuted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 The more I think about it, assuming Danks comes back healthy this week... put me on the Peavy-to-the-Bullpen bandwagon. He obviously is still struggling a bit with recovering strength and conditioning, but he needs to pitch to build that back up. The Sox have 6 starters and need anther strong reliever. Let Peavy work the rest of the year from the pen, and go back to starting only if necessary. Then he has the offseason to more fully recover and condition, and be ready to start in 2012. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 10:16 AM) The more I think about it, assuming Danks comes back healthy this week... put me on the Peavy-to-the-Bullpen bandwagon. He obviously is still struggling a bit with recovering strength and conditioning, but he needs to pitch to build that back up. The Sox have 6 starters and need anther strong reliever. Let Peavy work the rest of the year from the pen, and go back to starting only if necessary. Then he has the offseason to more fully recover and condition, and be ready to start in 2012. I will say he had way better stuff out of the pen, than he has as a starter. Is it ideal? No. But I really think it gives us the best mix to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 10:16 AM) The more I think about it, assuming Danks comes back healthy this week... put me on the Peavy-to-the-Bullpen bandwagon. He obviously is still struggling a bit with recovering strength and conditioning, but he needs to pitch to build that back up. The Sox have 6 starters and need anther strong reliever. Let Peavy work the rest of the year from the pen, and go back to starting only if necessary. Then he has the offseason to more fully recover and condition, and be ready to start in 2012. Heard this stat on the Score this morning, I thought it was pretty significant. These are the splits of hitters vs. Peavy in 2011 for how many pitches he had thrown. Pitches 1-25: .271/.306/.441 Pitches 26-50: .226/.269/.306 Pitches 51-75: .140/.227/.228 Pitches 76-100: .457/.469/.587 Pitches 101+: .231/.231/.231 (13 ABs) He totally appears to be hitting a wall, Javy Vazquez style and maybe he's just still not 100%. It could be a good idea to get him in the bullpen next year, and hope he can get back to 100% this offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 10:23 AM) Heard this stat on the Score this morning, I thought it was pretty significant. These are the splits of hitters vs. Peavy in 2011 for how many pitches he had thrown. Pitches 1-25: .271/.306/.441 Pitches 26-50: .226/.269/.306 Pitches 51-75: .140/.227/.228 Pitches 76-100: .457/.469/.587 Pitches 101+: .231/.231/.231 (13 ABs) He totally appears to be hitting a wall, Javy Vazquez style and maybe he's just still not 100%. It could be a good idea to get him in the bullpen next year, and hope he can get back to 100% this offseason. There will most likely be no changes made seeing that Ozzie doesn't look at stats Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 10:23 AM) Heard this stat on the Score this morning, I thought it was pretty significant. These are the splits of hitters vs. Peavy in 2011 for how many pitches he had thrown. Pitches 1-25: .271/.306/.441 Pitches 26-50: .226/.269/.306 Pitches 51-75: .140/.227/.228 Pitches 76-100: .457/.469/.587 Pitches 101+: .231/.231/.231 (13 ABs) He totally appears to be hitting a wall, Javy Vazquez style and maybe he's just still not 100%. It could be a good idea to get him in the bullpen next year, and hope he can get back to 100% this offseason. I don't think there is any doubt he is not 100% right now. I don't know whether that is conditioning or him still being hurt, but he isn't there right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwolf68 Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 11:16 AM) The more I think about it, assuming Danks comes back healthy this week... put me on the Peavy-to-the-Bullpen bandwagon. He obviously is still struggling a bit with recovering strength and conditioning, but he needs to pitch to build that back up. The Sox have 6 starters and need anther strong reliever. Let Peavy work the rest of the year from the pen, and go back to starting only if necessary. Then he has the offseason to more fully recover and condition, and be ready to start in 2012. I'm with this idea too. Since we need a righty in the pen, let him do it and prevent Williams from trading our top prospects as is his usual MO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyuen Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 10:30 AM) I don't think there is any doubt he is not 100% right now. I don't know whether that is conditioning or him still being hurt, but he isn't there right now. Well I guess that all depends on what you expect 100% to look like... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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