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Tigers acquire our old friend Wilson Betemit


Steve9347

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QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 04:45 PM)
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6811/c...r2SkJNCsHSFCLcF

 

Yet another player who flourished under the tutelage of THE Greg Walker. How many outliers need to exist under one man's tenure before we try to explain the outliers?

 

:notworthy

 

Dunn, Swisher, Betemit, etc

 

 

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QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 04:49 PM)
Well he started sucking before he got here. But I will give you points for him never looking s***tier than this year.

Yeah, but his "sucking" for the Jays in 2009 would be a revelation this year. Check out his splits in 2009 alone.

 

He had a .744 OPS for the Jays in 2009. I'd KILL for that right now. 2009 after he got here, .530 OPS.

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QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 04:45 PM)
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6811/c...r2SkJNCsHSFCLcF

 

Yet another player who flourished under the tutelage of THE Greg Walker. How many outliers need to exist under one man's tenure before we try to explain the outliers?

Wilson Betemit? The guy with 45 ABs in a White Sox uniform. The reason he couldn't find time was because he was awful defensively and the Sox had a DH, but blame Walker.

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QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 04:58 PM)
Yeah, but his "sucking" for the Jays in 2009 would be a revelation this year. Check out his splits in 2009 alone.

 

He had a .744 OPS for the Jays in 2009. I'd KILL for that right now. 2009 after he got here, .530 OPS.

Walker must have said something totally different to him the first half of last year, then changed his tune back to his BS probably just to piss you off. He made that ridiculous waiver claim useful with some hard work over the winter and Rios got lazy again.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 05:08 PM)
Walker must have said something totally different to him the first half of last year, then changed his tune back to his BS probably just to piss you off. He made that ridiculous waiver claim useful with some hard work over the winter and Rios got lazy again.

You're right, Greg Walker forced that waiver claim to work hard. Apparently, hitting coaches only matter for players when they are performing, and not the vast majority of our players who suck f***ing balls and have their worst offensive seasons in White Sox uniforms.

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QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 05:51 PM)
You're right, Greg Walker forced that waiver claim to work hard. Apparently, hitting coaches only matter for players when they are performing, and not the vast majority of our players who suck f***ing balls and have their worst offensive seasons in White Sox uniforms.

Exactly what has Walker done with Rios that he should have done differently? Since you seem to be the expert, what's the simple fix to get Alex interested again? Hitting coaches matter, but to say they are fully responsible for failure, that's just crazy. Again, you can blame Greg Walker all you want, he's not the problem. They can spend millions bring in another hitting coach and for a few months you will be all excited, but then you'll say it will take some time, then you will say Walker ruined them, then you will start questioning the next hitting coach, then you will call for his head. The bottom line is unless you get better hitters, the results aren't going to change much. Most of these guys don't spend hours a day with the hitting coach no matter who he is.

Edited by Dick Allen
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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 06:01 PM)
Exactly what has Walker done with Rios that he should have done differently? Since you seem to be the expert, what's the simple fix to get Alex interested again?

I don't know, yo, I'm not behind closed doors. However, I'm not limiting this to just Alex f***ing Rios. There's a laundry list of players who are acquired, vastly underperform expectations, and then go on to re-achieve their former productivity elsewhere.

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QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 06:04 PM)
I don't know, yo, I'm not behind closed doors. However, I'm not limiting this to just Alex f***ing Rios. There's a laundry list of players who are acquired, vastly underperform expectations, and then go on to re-achieve their former productivity elsewhere.

Who? Swisher is one, but he did not work with Walker. That is a fact. Its one reason the Sox got rid of him. I hope you don't say Wilson Betemit. He batted 45 times for the White Sox.

 

I can name a few pitchers that flourished after leaving the Sox and Don Cooper walks on water. I think Walker would be a lot more popular if he got hammered and went on talk radio.

Edited by Dick Allen
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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 06:08 PM)
Who? Swisher is one, but he did not work with Walker. That is a fact. Its one reason the Sox got rid of him. I hope you don't say Wilson Betemit. He batted 45 times for the White Sox.

 

I can name a few pitchers that flourished after leaving the Sox and Don Cooper walks on water. I think Walker would be a lot more popular if he got hammered and went on talk radio.

But can you name any hitters that were absolute garbage before coming here and flourished under Walker's tutelage?

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QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 06:17 PM)
But can you name any hitters that were absolute garbage before coming here and flourished under Walker's tutelage?

Jermaine Dye. Jim Thome was hurt in 2005. I'm sure he will use Frank Thomas as one of his examples. Alexei Ramirez was much better than advertised. Carlos Quentin was a bust in AZ and may have been MVP in 2008 in not for a fluke injury. Uribe was great his first season after being run out of Colorado. There are many. If Walker was half as pitiful as most say he is, there would be some players in his 8 years that went on to become much better when they got away from him.

Edited by Dick Allen
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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 06:20 PM)
Jermaine Dye. Jim Thome was hurt in 2005. I'm sure he will use Frank Thomas as one of his examples. Alexei Ramirez was much better than advertised. Carlos Quentin was a bust in AZ and may have been MVP in 2008 in not for a fluke injury. Uribe was great his first season after being run out of Colorado. There are many. If Walker was half as pitiful as most say he is, there would be some players in his 8 years that went on to become much better when they got away from him.

You're naming players that had been very good prior to ever working with Walker. So those are the guys who didn't completely suck while they worked with him?

 

Juan Uribe is your shining example?

 

Dye, Thome, and Thomas had all been multiple-time all stars prior to ever meeting Greg Walker.

 

Alexei, in my opinion, has been basically exactly what the scouting reports out of Cuba said he would be.

 

Q was a first round draft pick who was injured for a great deal of his time in AZ. He was dealt because of a numbers crunch situation, not because anyone proclaimed him to be a bust.

 

 

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My worry there is that your found ways to rile out almost all of the guys the sox have had who were decent contributors. Can you give examples of guys who came here and then never produced or fell apart? (Dunn obviously)

 

I'm sorta asking how big a sample size were talking about. If were talking about 8 guys and you exclude 5, then it's not that useful of a standard.

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QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 06:44 PM)
You're naming players that had been very good prior to ever working with Walker. So those are the guys who didn't completely suck while they worked with him?

 

Juan Uribe is your shining example?

 

Dye, Thome, and Thomas had all been multiple-time all stars prior to ever meeting Greg Walker.

 

Alexei, in my opinion, has been basically exactly what the scouting reports out of Cuba said he would be.

 

Q was a first round draft pick who was injured for a great deal of his time in AZ. He was dealt because of a numbers crunch situation, not because anyone proclaimed him to be a bust.

You're just going to make excuses for anyone who has had success under Walker. If you want to say Gavin Floyd is a feather in Don Cooper's cap, Carlos Quentin is a feather in Greg Walker's cap. We won't even mention Paul Konerko and how much he credits Walker. Aaron Rowand, even after playing in Philadelphia under Charlie Manuel said Walker is the best hitting coach he's ever had.

 

It would be nice to have some success with the players from the Sox system, guys like Josh Fields, but I don't know how you could put that failure on Walker. They obviously weren't prepared well enough getting to the big leagues and no one has been able to help them since.

 

Alexei is far and away a better hitter than what the scouts thought. If he is what they thought, he would have signed for a lot more money.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 05:01 PM)
Exactly what has Walker done with Rios that he should have done differently?

 

Have you seen his swing lately? It's pathetic. In Walker's defense...I think he's a hopeless cause anyway.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 09:00 PM)
You're just going to make excuses for anyone who has had success under Walker. If you want to say Gavin Floyd is a feather in Don Cooper's cap, Carlos Quentin is a feather in Greg Walker's cap. We won't even mention Paul Konerko and how much he credits Walker. Aaron Rowand, even after playing in Philadelphia under Charlie Manuel said Walker is the best hitting coach he's ever had.

 

It would be nice to have some success with the players from the Sox system, guys like Josh Fields, but I don't know how you could put that failure on Walker. They obviously weren't prepared well enough getting to the big leagues and no one has been able to help them since.

 

Alexei is far and away a better hitter than what the scouts thought. If he is what they thought, he would have signed for a lot more money.

 

DA, your consistency is to be commended. I can appreciate that. You never deviate from how you feel (greg). But at some point something has to be done. Otherwise nobody would ever get fired in any profession. This offense has grossly underachieved for some time now. Not just this year.

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QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 20, 2011 -> 06:08 PM)
Who? Swisher is one, but he did not work with Walker. That is a fact. Its one reason the Sox got rid of him. I hope you don't say Wilson Betemit. He batted 45 times for the White Sox.

 

I can name a few pitchers that flourished after leaving the Sox and Don Cooper walks on water. I think Walker would be a lot more popular if he got hammered and went on talk radio.

 

Dad to Son: Son I want to talk to you about your report card. You got a D in Geometry.

Son to Dad: Becky next door got a D in English.

Dad to Son: And how does the girl next doors grade in English remotely have anything to do with your geometry grades?

 

Still trying to figure out how a discussion on The hitting coach automatically links the pitching coach in. Hey comparing Jamarillo to Walk, sure valid they do the SAme thing and it's apples to apples.

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QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Jul 21, 2011 -> 01:33 AM)
Dad to Son: Son I want to talk to you about your report card. You got a D in Geometry.

Son to Dad: Becky next door got a D in English.

Dad to Son: And how does the girl next doors grade in English remotely have anything to do with your geometry grades?

 

Still trying to figure out how a discussion on The hitting coach automatically links the pitching coach in. Hey comparing Jamarillo to Walk, sure valid they do the SAme thing and it's apples to apples.

 

Hahaha. This is the analogy of the year.

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