Tigers acquire our old friend Wilson Betemit

[southsider2k5]

Dad to Son: Son I want to talk to you about your report card. You got a D in Geometry.

Son to Dad: Becky next door got a D in English.

Dad to Son: And how does the girl next doors grade in English remotely have anything to do with your geometry grades?

 

Still trying to figure out how a discussion on The hitting coach automatically links the pitching coach in. Hey comparing Jamarillo to Walk, sure valid they do the SAme thing and it's apples to apples.

 

Soxtalk answer: You're both being sent to AAA.

[LittleHurt05]

Soxtalk answer: You're both being sent to AAA.

 

And fire the Dad

[southsider2k5]

And fire the Dad

 

For sure. He has obviously failed.

[Balta1701]

Paul Konerko thinks a lot of him, but I can't say that walker is responsible.

 

Another note: Inge was sent to AAA but must clear waivers. Claim him?

Inge's contract has $5.5 mil for 2012 still on the books. Claiming him would involve picking up that money.

 

Let him clear waivers. Then he has to decide what to do. He can go to the Tigers minor league system if he wants to stay there, or he can sign elsewhere for the minimum with the Tigers paying what remains on his deal. I'd take him for the minimum if he were willing.

[Steve9347]

DA, your consistency is to be commended. I can appreciate that. You never deviate from how you feel (greg). But at some point something has to be done. Otherwise nobody would ever get fired in any profession. This offense has grossly underachieved for some time now. Not just this year.

I think this post sums it up perfectly. Something just has to be f***ing done.

[whitesoxfan101]

Jermaine Dye. Jim Thome was hurt in 2005. I'm sure he will use Frank Thomas as one of his examples. Alexei Ramirez was much better than advertised. Carlos Quentin was a bust in AZ and may have been MVP in 2008 in not for a fluke injury. Uribe was great his first season after being run out of Colorado. There are many. If Walker was half as pitiful as most say he is, there would be some players in his 8 years that went on to become much better when they got away from him.

 

Jermaine Dye had the same numbers with the Sox as he did in KC, just a higher slugging percentage (which makes sense considering the home parks). Carlos Quentin was not a bust in Arizona as much as he had even more injury problems there than he's had here. Juan Uribe was statistically a better hitter with San Francisco and Colorado than he was with the Sox. I'm literally laughing at Frank Thomas & Jim Thome's names being brought up, and bringing up Alexei is just throwing a name out there since none of us ever saw him before he got here.

 

Now, do you have any actual examples to defend your favorite hitting coach?

[RockRaines]

I think this move helps the pull happy white sox as defense in the IF for the Tigers just got alot worse.

[iamshack]

Inge's contract has $5.5 mil for 2012 still on the books. Claiming him would involve picking up that money.

 

Let him clear waivers. Then he has to decide what to do. He can go to the Tigers minor league system if he wants to stay there, or he can sign elsewhere for the minimum with the Tigers paying what remains on his deal. I'd take him for the minimum if he were willing.

Inge might be interesting for us because he would allow us to keep him as our backup catcher. Otherwise, isn't he basically Brent Morel right now?

[Balta1701]

Inge might be interesting for us because he would allow us to keep him as our backup catcher. Otherwise, isn't he basically Brent Morel right now?

Except for the fact that he's hit better in the past, yes.

[witesoxfan]

Jermaine Dye had the same numbers with the Sox as he did in KC, just a higher slugging percentage (which makes sense considering the home parks). Carlos Quentin was not a bust in Arizona as much as he had even more injury problems there than he's had here. Juan Uribe was statistically a better hitter with San Francisco and Colorado than he was with the Sox. I'm literally laughing at Frank Thomas & Jim Thome's names being brought up, and bringing up Alexei is just throwing a name out there since none of us ever saw him before he got here.

 

Now, do you have any actual examples to defend your favorite hitting coach?

 

Jermaine Dye was pretty much left for dead by most on here after he'd been terrible in 2003 (OPS+ of 38), was basically a lefty masher in 2004, and started off terrible in 2005. I will give Walker credit for Dye, deserved or not.

 

Another player who really credited Walker with helping out his game was Crede. He was on pace to hit about 35 homers in 2006 with an OPS around .875 (he was at .884 on September 2nd) before his back flared up and he was absolutely terrible in September, and then he could never recover from that point forward.

 

There are success stories, but I believe Walker has worn out his welcome with the Sox. He's been with the Sox for almost 10 years now as the MLB hitting coach, so simply getting another voice in there really can't do much harm.

[GoodAsGould]

Jermaine Dye was pretty much left for dead by most on here after he'd been terrible in 2003 (OPS+ of 38), was basically a lefty masher in 2004, and started off terrible in 2005. I will give Walker credit for Dye, deserved or not.

 

Another player who really credited Walker with helping out his game was Crede. He was on pace to hit about 35 homers in 2006 with an OPS around .875 (he was at .884 on September 2nd) before his back flared up and he was absolutely terrible in September, and then he could never recover from that point forward.

 

There are success stories, but I believe Walker has worn out his welcome with the Sox. He's been with the Sox for almost 10 years now as the MLB hitting coach, so simply getting another voice in there really can't do much harm.

 

Wasn't Dye super injury prone during his time in Oakland before coming here, I don't give any credit of that to Walker. I can agree that Crede probably is the one guy you can point at, Quentin to a smaller degree although that season he had a few years back seems like a fluke now.

[Dick Allen]

Dad to Son: Son I want to talk to you about your report card. You got a D in Geometry.

Son to Dad: Becky next door got a D in English.

Dad to Son: And how does the girl next doors grade in English remotely have anything to do with your geometry grades?

 

Still trying to figure out how a discussion on The hitting coach automatically links the pitching coach in. Hey comparing Jamarillo to Walk, sure valid they do the SAme thing and it's apples to apples.

Not really linking just show the disparity in how they are viewed. Cooper walks on water no matter what, Walker is garbage no matter what. The fact that no one gets better with other teams after they leave the Sox and Walker has been around 8 years might just show he working with an ability level that isn't as high as his critics assume.

 

Give Rudy Jaramillo Brent Morel, make Perez Hilton Albert Pujols personal batting coach. At the end of the day when the results are in, using most of Soxtalk's criteria, Perez Hilton would be the far better hitting coach. That's not right.

 

And if you want to compare Jaramillo with Walker, the did have one hitter in common in recent years. In fact the guy had 4 htting coaches in 4 years. His best season was with Walker. Andruw Jones.

[Dick Allen]

Jermaine Dye had the same numbers with the Sox as he did in KC, just a higher slugging percentage (which makes sense considering the home parks). Carlos Quentin was not a bust in Arizona as much as he had even more injury problems there than he's had here. Juan Uribe was statistically a better hitter with San Francisco and Colorado than he was with the Sox. I'm literally laughing at Frank Thomas & Jim Thome's names being brought up, and bringing up Alexei is just throwing a name out there since none of us ever saw him before he got here.

 

Now, do you have any actual examples to defend your favorite hitting coach?

Carlos Quentin had more injury problems in AZ than he's had here? This is exactly what I'm talking about. Walker will never get a fair shake. Dye was much better as a White Sox than a Royal or an A. I don't know why you're laughing at Thome and Thomas. I was preparing for, which btw, I did not get a response, the answer as to which hitters became much better after Walker. I was sure he would mention Frank Thomas, so I countered that with Thome as their conditions were very similar. Uribe wasn't better with Colorado than the Sox, he was slightly better in SF, but not if you took his first 2 White Sox seasons, and he faded just like with the Sox, and I'm not just throw Alexei's name out there. He has hit significantly better than he was projected. That's just a fact.

[GoodAsGould]

Carlos Quentin had more injury problems in AZ than he's had here? This is exactly what I'm talking about. Walker will never get a fair shake. Dye was much better as a White Sox than a Royal or an A. I don't know why you're laughing at Thome and Thomas. I was preparing for, which btw, I did not get a response, the answer as to which hitters became much better after Walker. I was sure he would mention Frank Thomas, so I countered that with Thome as their conditions were very similar. Uribe wasn't better with Colorado than the Sox, he was slightly better in SF, but not if you took his first 2 White Sox seasons, and he faded just like with the Sox, and I'm not just throw Alexei's name out there. He has hit significantly better than he was projected. That's just a fact.

 

Jermaine Dye was injury plagued for awhile before his time with the Wsox and was a former all star, I don't understand how you credit him being healthy to Walker. Thome/Thomas are both HoF mashers and Thomas has a very unorthodox swing that Walker had nothing to do with. Juan Uribe's 2 seasons in San Fran were better than all but 1 with the Wsox. Alexi is exactly what he was projected, not sure where you are going with that at all.

 

I don't think anyone is going to claim firing Greg Walker is going to automatically fix the offense, but the fact is he is nothing better than below avg. at his job. As far as Cooper in comparison well top of my head.

 

Cooper:

Matt Thornton

Gavin Floyd

Phil Humber

Esteban Loaiza

Bobby Jenks

Jose Contreras

Neal Cotts/Cliff Politte(had success with us than out of baseball after)

 

Walker:

Joe Crede

???

[Kyyle23]

Betemits debut with the tigers, 1 for 4, 3 Ks

[Dick Allen]

Jermaine Dye was injury plagued for awhile before his time with the Wsox and was a former all star, I don't understand how you credit him being healthy to Walker. Thome/Thomas are both HoF mashers and Thomas has a very unorthodox swing that Walker had nothing to do with. Juan Uribe's 2 seasons in San Fran were better than all but 1 with the Wsox. Alexi is exactly what he was projected, not sure where you are going with that at all.

 

I don't think anyone is going to claim firing Greg Walker is going to automatically fix the offense, but the fact is he is nothing better than below avg. at his job. As far as Cooper in comparison well top of my head.

 

Cooper:

Matt Thornton

Gavin Floyd

Phil Humber

Esteban Loaiza

Bobby Jenks

Jose Contreras

Neal Cotts/Cliff Politte(had success with us than out of baseball after)

 

Walker:

Joe Crede

???

 

Interesting you don't give Walker any credit for fixing Konerko, which he did when he took over midway 2003. Making Aaron Rowand legit, Dye, Iguchi, Ramirez, yet you give Cooper credit for any little thing. Thornton was a big fix. He made on small adjustment and it changed Matt Thornton's life. I give Cooper credit for it. Floyd was supposed to be a star. He really hasn't progressed much after his 2008. Humber has been tremendous. Loaisa was a short term fix, much of his success based on a cutter he started to develop before Cooper and Cooper helped him with it, although his success was very brief. Jenks was supposed to be a star, and I really don't know how you give Cooper credit for a guy throwing 100, but fine. Contreras signed for 8 times as much money as Alexei Ramirez. I loved Jose Contreras, was his biggest fan, but he was very inconsistent and its funny one of Soxtalks all time biggest punching bags is now considered a Don Cooper success story. I think El Duque had a lot to do with Jose Contreras' success myself. He told him to start pitching like he did in Cuba. Neal Cotts and Cliff Politte? One good season each? At least 2 horrible seasons each. Really? Why wouldn't every White Sox hitter that had a decent year even if it was for 200 AB then be a Greg Walker success story? Alexei was projected as Omar Infante with less power. Sorry. Silver Slugger SS aren't available for 4 years $1 million a year.

 

I also never gave Walker credit for Frank Thomas. I asked a poster to name all the players who went on to bigger and better things after Greg Walker because he said there had been plenty. I told him not to include Frank Thomas because when Frank was healthy and Walker the hitting coach, Frank was fine. Juan Uribe's first season in SF was the same as his first season with the Sox. He is also fading and his career numbers show a slightly higher OPS in the AL vs. the NL.

 

Your response is typical of the Walker hater, and Cooper lover. You don't look at everything through the same lenses. The hitting coach and the pitching coach are not the problem with the White Sox. Changing either will have no effect on wins and losses at least in a positve manner. If you replace them with the wrong guy, things might even get worse. Players must change, either that or the one's not performing need to perform.

Edited July 23, 2011 by Dick Allen

[GoodAsGould]

Aaron Rowand isn't legit, he had 1 good season with us and 1 good season after the Wsox but largely below avg. and why would I give him credit for Iguchi or Dye? Konerko also changes his swing every two weeks himself and Loaiza was picked off the scraps, he would of been in AAA or out of baseball most likely before his season with us. Like I said, firing Walker won't fix the offense... but the guy isn't good at his job and I'm starting to think you are related to him.

[Dick Allen]

Aaron Rowand isn't legit, he had 1 good season with us and 1 good season after the Wsox but largely below avg. and why would I give him credit for Iguchi or Dye? Konerko also changes his swing every two weeks himself and Loaiza was picked off the scraps, he would of been in AAA or out of baseball most likely before his season with us. Like I said, firing Walker won't fix the offense... but the guy isn't good at his job and I'm starting to think you are related to him.

Rowand isn't legit because he only had one good year, but Cotts and Politte, Loiasa and Humber and even Contreras are in your Cooper column. You must be stoned. At least you admit firing Walker won't fix the offense, so why should he be fired?

Edited July 23, 2011 by Dick Allen

[GoodAsGould]

Rowand isn't legit because he only had one good year, but Cotts and Politte, Loiasa and Humber are in your Cooper column. You must be stoned.

 

Well Humber doesnt fall into with other 3 yet, but as far as it goes the other 3 only had a good season under Cooper while Rowand had similar career post wsox. Also Rowand probably was a roider and probably had a part to do with any of his success.

[Dick Allen]

Well Humber doesnt fall into with other 3 yet, but as far as it goes the other 3 only had a good season under Cooper while Rowand had similar career post wsox. Also Rowand probably was a roider and probably had a part to do with any of his success.

That doesn't matter. Rowand had one good season after he left the Sox and got paid. Explain why Jose Contreras has a higher ERA with the White Sox than he did with the Yankees or Rockies or Phillies.

 

And are you saying if Thornton continued to pitch as he's pitched with another team, you would have to take him off your Cooper column?

 

Walker isn't a bad hitting coach. He's pretty similar results-wise with Cooper if you really examine it. People will say well Cooper has made something useful out of Floyd and Humber, but how many hitters drafted #4 and considered top prospects at some time has KW acquired for Walker to work with. Quentin is one and he probably would have been the MVP in 2008 had it not been for an injury.

Edited July 23, 2011 by Dick Allen

[iamshack]

DA, fess up...how do you know/did you meet Walker?

 

We all know that's what this is about.

[earthshiner]

same old guy

[southsider2k5]

Wow. That last guy of the bench in little league bad.

[smalls2598]

Wow. That last guy of the bench in little league bad.