macsandz Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 (edited) Miraculously this team is still in the race. But, it's cross-roads time for the White Sox and if this team wants to make the post-season, tough decisions have to be made. I'm not talking about "buyers or sellers" at the trade-deadline and hoping to find a team willing to make that all important deal. I'm talking about OZ, KW and JR sitting down and changing the direction of this team for a 60 game 2011 season. This is not some pipe-dream panic scramble. This is as simple as two roster moves that could be made in a couple phone calls. Today. This was to be a season of "all in" and the franchise promoted that to the public as it's 2011 motto. While that effectively described the 2011 OFF-SEASON, it has yet to be implemented during the season by management. As we all know this team's offense has underachieved greatly through the first 100 games and the highest paid players are most responsible. If this team wants to make a push and reach the postseason, it's time to enforce the "all in" approach and make some difficult choices. The challenge is in front of not only the players and management, but also lies in front of executive-level personnel as well. The dilemma is this: Continue with the roster as-is and hope that players that have drastically underachieved somehow turn their seasons around OR Reduce playing time for under-performers regardless of salary, and move forward with players that have the best chance of helping the team win NOW. My solution? Bench Dunn and Rios for Viciedo and DeAza for the next several series. (send down Morel and DL Dunn (knee) or Rios (toe)) That's extended playing time in games against the best in the AL as well as key rivals that could potentially make all the difference in how this team finishes 2011. Not sit Dunn and Rios for a few games and work them back into the lineup. I'm talking about brining up young, motivated players that have MLB experience and have played at a very high level all season in Charlotte. We don't need miracle production from Viciedo and DeAza, just play their game at replacement level and this team would be better immediately. Will Reinsdorf put his mouth where his money is and allow high-priced, low production players to collect a check on the bench? Will Ozzie put his money where his mouth is and step away from being the "player's manager"? Will Kenny put his ego in check and perform the duties of an actual GM with or without his Manager's "approval?" This is a lot to ask. This would be bold baseball. This would be that gamble consistant with the poker metaphor the Sox have been referencing all season. This is what needs to be done. Afterall, we've all played poker and "all in" is ALL IN. Edited July 22, 2011 by bucket-of-suck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 My name is Jordan4life, and I officially hate the phrase all-in. I despise it. I want to kill those two words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 I wonder if Guillen isn't being unfairly painted as the bad guy in all this. I believe if it were up to him Dunn and Rios would be benched right now. Problem is that makes Kenny Hollywood look like a damn fool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macsandz Posted July 22, 2011 Author Share Posted July 22, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 21, 2011 -> 08:16 PM) I wonder if Guillen isn't being unfairly painted as the bad guy in all this. I believe if it were up to him Dunn and Rios would be benched right now. Problem is that makes Kenny Hollywood look like a damn fool. No it doesn't. Nobody blames KW for Dunn being beyond awful. The best way for Kenny to look like a "damn fool" is keep deferring his job to Ozzie. Stop listening to Cowley. He's an idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 You don't honestly think Guillen wants to play Dunn do you? Dunn is the anti-Guillen player. Bad defensively, strikes out a ton, and can't run. Dunn, Rios, and Peavy are clearly Kenny guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 (edited) Well, you're certainly going to see MORE fingers pointed at KW over Dunn/Rios than Ozzie, there's very little debate over that. Looking back over this season, the point that might be most rued is not bringing up Viciedo 2-3 weeks ago when he was white-hot at Charlotte. That's the the point in time when Villain #1 was officially transferring from Juan Pierre and the possibility Dunn would never turn this season around was dawning on most fans and certainly the front office. As always, we have the pitching to make a run at the big teams like Yankees/Red Sox in the playoffs, but that's a little bit more questionable now with Peavy struggling so much with his stuff and Humber falling back to earth a little. If the playoffs were to start today, I'm not even sure who I would go with as my Top 3 besides 1) Buehrle and 2) definitely not Peavy. Probably Danks and Jackson. Although it's really impossible to imagine skipping over Humber based on a couple of average starts and going with Edwin just because he "seems" hot again. And benching Rios and Dunn still leaves another huge issue, 3B. Every time you fix a gaping hole in the dike, another one or two pops up in our line-up. For most of the season, we've been getting nothing from 4-5 slots (minimum) on a consistent basis. The best thing to do is find a veteran 3B who won't cost them Viciedo but will give them more offensively than Teahen/Vizquel and NOT kill them defensively. And that's not going to be easy to do, obviously. And I agree about Dayan and DeAza...although at this point, I can't imagine them doing it. The time to make the changes would have been over the All-Star break, and that's the time when SUPPOSEDLY Rios and Dunn were going to lead us in the 2nd half. It seems Ozzie and KW were determined to give them more time to fight through this, right or wrong. And there is precedence for this. We benched Swisher for DeWayne Wise in the heat of a pennant race, although he wasn't a well-like "White Sox veteran" like Dunn, Pierre or even Rios (don't really know if he's well-liked, but I don't think he's hated either because his teammates would have completely turned on him with how he's played so poorly for 7-8/10 months out of his Sox career). Edited July 22, 2011 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 21, 2011 -> 08:29 PM) You don't honestly think Guillen wants to play Dunn do you? Dunn is the anti-Guillen player. Bad defensively, strikes out a ton, and can't run. Dunn, Rios, and Peavy are clearly Kenny guys. Then explain to me why he bats Dunn 3rd or 4th? Whether you believe it or not, Ozzie makes the line ups. He finally sat Dunn twice, then said he had a sore knee. We know thats BS. He has no chance. Supposedly as bad as he looks during the games, he looks equally awful during BP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 21, 2011 -> 08:16 PM) I wonder if Guillen isn't being unfairly painted as the bad guy in all this. I believe if it were up to him Dunn and Rios would be benched right now. Problem is that makes Kenny Hollywood look like a damn fool. Every time you post I am more convinced you are either a Guillen, or Joe Cowley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...0,3714301.story This is what Detroit is doing with Inge. It would be nice if Adam followed suit. If he didn't suck this bad I doubt he would talk about quitting. IF Vic is going to play outfield, you still need a DH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 21, 2011 -> 08:49 PM) Then explain to me why he bats Dunn 3rd or 4th? Whether you believe it or not, Ozzie makes the line ups. He finally sat Dunn twice, then said he had a sore knee. We know thats BS. He has no chance. Supposedly as bad as he looks during the games, he looks equally awful during BP. There isn't a manager in baseball who can sit a free agent signed for 4y/$56M for an extended period of time without the blessing of the GM. Batting him 4th might be an effort to get Hollywood to do something with him. I'm shocked they haven't put him on the DL yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 21, 2011 -> 08:49 PM) Every time you post I am more convinced you are either a Guillen, or Joe Cowley. Why do you say that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macsandz Posted July 22, 2011 Author Share Posted July 22, 2011 QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Jul 21, 2011 -> 08:55 PM) http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseb...0,3714301.story This is what Detroit is doing with Inge. It would be nice if Adam followed suit. If he didn't suck this bad I doubt he would talk about quitting. IF Vic is going to play outfield, you still need a DH. Great article Phil. The oblivious Twins reference is particularly effective as they are well under .500 and will be 7 games out of first place by the end of the night... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macsandz Posted July 22, 2011 Author Share Posted July 22, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 21, 2011 -> 09:02 PM) Why do you say that? Because you literally quote the guy word for word. Stick to Twitter Joe Joe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 1.I am ALL FOR Dunn and Rios being benched for an extended period. Viciedo and DeAza would be fine. They couldn't be worse. Hell Brian Anderson and Timo Perez couldn't be worse. 2. My guess, and none of us know, is that Ozzie dislikes Dunn and didn't want him. He clearly wanted the rotating DH situation last season. It didn't work because Kotsay wasn't good enough to make it work. This time Kenny Stanford said they were doing it HIS way and he went out and got his guy, Dunn. Ozzie has to figure I'm stuck with this clown, so not only am I going to play him, I'm going to bat him fourth and show the world that this is the kind of player Kenny Stanford loves. 3. Despite all the public band aids they put on the relationship last winter, chances are Kenny and Ozzie can't co-exist much longer. The relationship has run its course and they have different philosophies about what kind of team each guy wants. Wouldn't be a bit surprised to see Ozzie head to Miami next season. 4. Meanwhile we'll be stuck with Kenny's Kontracts -- Peavy, Dunn, Rios and never, ever forget Teahen, who was extended for more money when there was no pressure or reason to do it. It's going to get worse before it gets better because the Sox player development system is not so hot -- other than Daniel Hudson and Gio Gonzalez of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 21, 2011 -> 09:01 PM) There isn't a manager in baseball who can sit a free agent signed for 4y/$56M for an extended period of time without the blessing of the GM. Batting him 4th might be an effort to get Hollywood to do something with him. I'm shocked they haven't put him on the DL yet. What exactly is "Hollywood" supposed to do with him? He can't trade him. JR isn't going to eat all that cash without seeing if he can somehow come around in the next year or so. If he must play, you still have to try to win, not try to show up your boss. If Ozzie is trying to show up KW batting Dunn 3rd or 4th he should be fired and blackballed from baseball for not trying to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Jul 21, 2011 -> 09:05 PM) Because you literally quote the guy word for word. Stick to Twitter Joe Joe. Not Cowley or a Guillen, but too many posters think the Sox front office is above reproach. Truth is Williams (and Hahn) is most responsible for this mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 21, 2011 -> 09:02 PM) Why do you say that? Because you are the two people in the world that call him Kenny Hollywood and act like its a well known nickname. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 21, 2011 -> 09:09 PM) What exactly is "Hollywood" supposed to do with him? DL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 21, 2011 -> 09:14 PM) Because you are the two people in the world that call him Kenny Hollywood and act like its a well known nickname. I get a kick out of it and have no doubt there is truth behind the dig. It should be more well known. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 QUOTE (winninguglyin83 @ Jul 21, 2011 -> 09:08 PM) 1.I am ALL FOR Dunn and Rios being benched for an extended period. Viciedo and DeAza would be fine. They couldn't be worse. Hell Brian Anderson and Timo Perez couldn't be worse. 2. My guess, and none of us know, is that Ozzie dislikes Dunn and didn't want him. He clearly wanted the rotating DH situation last season. It didn't work because Kotsay wasn't good enough to make it work. This time Kenny Stanford said they were doing it HIS way and he went out and got his guy, Dunn. Ozzie has to figure I'm stuck with this clown, so not only am I going to play him, I'm going to bat him fourth and show the world that this is the kind of player Kenny Stanford loves. 3. Despite all the public band aids they put on the relationship last winter, chances are Kenny and Ozzie can't co-exist much longer. The relationship has run its course and they have different philosophies about what kind of team each guy wants. Wouldn't be a bit surprised to see Ozzie head to Miami next season. 4. Meanwhile we'll be stuck with Kenny's Kontracts -- Peavy, Dunn, Rios and never, ever forget Teahen, who was extended for more money when there was no pressure or reason to do it. It's going to get worse before it gets better because the Sox player development system is not so hot -- other than Daniel Hudson and Gio Gonzalez of course. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenksfart Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 My name is Jordan4life, and I officially hate the phrase all-in. I despise it. I want to kill those two words. It's Time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 A coach can bench a player, Ozzie has benched plenty of KW players for other guys. I think Ozzie is playing Dunn in the 4/5 because he wants to stick it to KW for getting Dunn in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 21, 2011 -> 09:17 PM) I get a kick out of it and have no doubt there is truth behind the dig. It should be more well known. Well, then either you're Joe Cowley, or Joe Cool. Either way, you're a Joe C. And no offense JoeCoolMan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 21, 2011 -> 09:20 PM) A coach can bench a player, Ozzie has benched plenty of KW players for other guys. I think Ozzie is playing Dunn in the 4/5 because he wants to stick it to KW for getting Dunn in the first place. Having Dunn on the bench does no good. He can't run or play defense. He needs to be DL'ed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Both Guillen and Williams are living off the good will they earned in 2005. That's considerable -- and it should be because anybody who has been a Sox fan for a long time knows exactly how remarkable that season and month of October was. Odds are it will be a long, long time before we see anything close to it again. But ... the direction of this franchise the last few seasons is a path to nowhere. It's an old, overpaid, underachieving group -- just as it was last season. And there are no young Magglios, Carlos Lees, Buehrles, Garlands, Credes, Rowands and Konerkos gathered to get things rolling in the right direction again. At least not in the Sox system. It's a bad, bad situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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