DirtySox Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 24, 2011 -> 08:00 PM) In my mind, to hell with that. We're 100 games in and we're below .500. Yeah, anything can happen in the playoffs. I get that. But if we somehow do get there, the chances of us getting to the World Series are extremely remote. At some point this franchise has to legitimately look at long-term success. Not selling out every year in a futile attempt to win this crappy division. Because obviously it hasn't worked. I'm in favor of long-term success over an at best 50% chance of winning a s***ty division. This. I'm praying for some pieces to be sold off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 24, 2011 -> 08:00 PM) I also don't think some realize how bad Rasmus has been the last couple of months. People want to send Beckham down to AAA, they'd be saying the same thing about Rasmus. Also, I don't know where people get Rasmus is a good defensive CF. He is not. Potentially he's a great player, but a lot of things have to play out correctly for that to happen. He's supposed to have a meddeling father who works with his hitting on the field and I guess causes trouble on Cardinals' message boards. If the trade happened, Soxtalk probably would gain a new member. Kalapse did something on Rasmus a fw weeks ago. Even in a down year, he's still grossly outperforming Beckham. And the fact that he plays CF cannot be underestimated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 24, 2011 -> 08:02 PM) Dreaded 'R' word. I went back and forth, but not jumping on this rumored deal would be just that, there's no worse way to state it... and I knew it. You don't pass on a Rasmus for an old reliever and a soon-to-walk mistake you don't need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 24, 2011 -> 08:00 PM) I imagine All-In doesn't mean f***ing retarded. you don't think we can win this division? let's be honest, i've been as negative about our chances as anyone on these boards, negative to the point that i literally got bored of being negative which is why i don't post in the game threads anymore but i didn't honestly think this division was gonna be this bad all year long, the sox could easily back in to the playoffs, and it pains me to say that but it could EASILY happen to hell with f***ing retarded, all-in is all-in. if the Sox had your mentality about having no chances, they wouldn't have waited until this stretch of games to determine what their realistic chances were, they would've started dumping players a month ago at least, and Viciedo would be in RF and Quentin would be gone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Also, really, you don't have to trade TCQ to acquire Rasmus, you can just platoon Pierre and Rios until Rios hopefully finally wakes the f*** up. Imagine if Rios woke up and played how he did the first-half last year and if you could run a Rios - Rasmus - Quentin outfield out there? /fantasyland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 24, 2011 -> 08:02 PM) Interesting new take on the deal, saying it's not Jackson AND Thornton, it's one or the other. Yeah, this has been known for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 QUOTE (Real @ Jul 24, 2011 -> 08:03 PM) you don't think we can win this division? I don't think Jackson and Thornton off this roster really hurts this team's chances of competing. Jackson has been barely over replacement level this year and Thornton has been the least opportune player on our roster since day 1. Roll the damn dice, take the 24 year old could-be stud, see what you can do from here on out, and come the offseason you still have said could-be stud vs no Jackson, no 35 year old reliever. It's a win-win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 24, 2011 -> 08:00 PM) I imagine All-In doesn't mean f***ing retarded. I hate this term "all in". It just gives people an excuse to want to morgage our future just for 1 singular year. It's soooo f***ing dumb. Getting Rasmus doesn't just effect our 2011 team, but it gives us a solid young player for 3 more years to come. People need to stop being so short-sighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Jul 24, 2011 -> 08:05 PM) Yeah, this has been known for a while. Been gone all day and catching up, my bad, baller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedge Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 24, 2011 -> 08:03 PM) I went back and forth, but not jumping on this rumored deal would be just that, there's no worse way to state it... and I knew it. You don't pass on a Rasmus for an old reliever and a soon-to-walk mistake you don't need. How can you call Jackson a mistake? In 29 games (just shy of a full season), he's pitched 190 innings with 78 earned runs (~3.7 ERA). Maybe the means of his acquisition were a mistake, but he's definitely been effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 24, 2011 -> 08:06 PM) I don't think Jackson and Thornton off this roster really hurts this team's chances of competing. Jackson has been barely over replacement level this year and Thornton has been the least opportune player on our roster since day 1. Roll the damn dice, take the 24 year old could-be stud, see what you can do from here on out, and come the offseason you still have said could-be stud vs no Jackson, no 35 year old reliever. It's a win-win. i'm telling you, there's zero chance the Sox essentially swap Rasmus for Thornton + Quentin + Reed, unless more salary dump moves are coming damn let's look at it this way maybe the Sox are deciding to rebuild? If the Rasmus move does happen, that's the only logical reasoning for it in my mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Jul 24, 2011 -> 08:07 PM) I hate this term "all in". It just gives people an excuse to want to morgage our future just for 1 singular year. It's soooo f***ing dumb. Getting Rasmus doesn't just effect our 2011 team, but it gives us a solid young player for 3 more years to come. People need to stop being so short-sighted. I think (and let me emphasize think) KW is starting to get this. That's assuming that any of these rumors have any legs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgrad70 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (DirtySox @ Jul 24, 2011 -> 08:02 PM) This. I'm praying for some pieces to be sold off. I'd like to see it all sold off to a well-heeled owner who comes in and changes the culture. The organization and its fanbase need a fresh perspective. I want the Sox to be among the elite on a regular basis not once a millienium. Edited July 25, 2011 by mcgrad70 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 QUOTE (Wedge @ Jul 24, 2011 -> 08:07 PM) How can you call Jackson a mistake? In 29 games (just shy of a full season), he's pitched 190 innings with 78 earned runs (~3.7 ERA). Maybe the means of his acquisition were a mistake, but he's definitely been effective. And if we had him for another three years with cost-efficiency he'd be fine. Unfortunately, all we're going to get is B draft pick compensation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 24, 2011 -> 08:03 PM) Kalapse did something on Rasmus a fw weeks ago. Even in a down year, he's still grossly outperforming Beckham. And the fact that he plays CF cannot be underestimated. Rasmus put up huge numbers in April. Since then he's been total garbage and he can "play" CF. Carl Everett could "play" CF in 2003 and Rob Macowiak could "play" CF in 2006-7 and Ken Griffey Jr. could "play" CF in 2008. There is a difference in playing CF and actually being good at it. You're all gung ho now, if this trade happened, and it appears the rumors aren't true, I think you will be dissappointed. I think a lot of people would. I think if it were presented KW would have to do it as long as he felt Rasmus and his baggage wouldn't be a problem. Maybe they could keep it from being a problem for a while, but eventually......................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 24, 2011 -> 08:10 PM) Rasmus put up huge numbers in April. Since then he's been total garbage and he can "play" CF. Carl Everett could "play" CF in 2003 and Rob Macowiak could "play" CF in 2006-7 and Ken Griffey Jr. could "play" CF in 2008. There is a difference in playing CF and actually being good at it. You're all gung ho now, if this trade happened, and it appears the rumors aren't true, I think you will be dissappointed. I think a lot of people would. I think if it were presented KW would have to do it as long as he felt Rasmus and his baggage wouldn't be a problem. Maybe they could keep it from being a problem for a while, but eventually......................... Rasmus is a gifted athlete that fits the profile of a potential elite CF. He was the #3 prospect in baseball two and a half years ago. If he did disappoint, so what? He's cheaper than a blackjacks stripper. Jackson is gone after this year and I don't think the franchise falls apart without Thornton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 24, 2011 -> 08:10 PM) Rasmus put up huge numbers in April. Since then he's been total garbage and he can "play" CF. Carl Everett could "play" CF in 2003 and Rob Macowiak could "play" CF in 2006-7 and Ken Griffey Jr. could "play" CF in 2008. There is a difference in playing CF and actually being good at it. You're all gung ho now, if this trade happened, and it appears the rumors aren't true, I think you will be dissappointed. I think a lot of people would. I think if it were presented KW would have to do it as long as he felt Rasmus and his baggage wouldn't be a problem. Maybe they could keep it from being a problem for a while, but eventually......................... Yeah, the only ? on Rasmus is his attitude, which has been a problem with LaRussa. However, anyone saying that Edwin Jackson or Matt Thornton is too much to pay is nuts. There's no way that either of those two + a relief prospect land this kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 24, 2011 -> 08:16 PM) Rasmus is a gifted athlete that fits the profile of a potential elite CF. He was the #3 prospect in baseball two and a half years ago. If he did disappoint, so what? He's cheaper than a blackjacks stripper. Jackson is gone after this year and I don't think the franchise falls apart without Thornton. So is Gordon Beckham and you never have kind things to say about him. I doubt 3 years from now Rasmus is a CF, and do you really thing Ozzie is going to bench Rios to play Rasmus? Edited July 25, 2011 by Dick Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 24, 2011 -> 09:17 PM) Yeah, the only ? on Rasmus is his attitude, which has been a problem with LaRussa. However, anyone saying that Edwin Jackson or Matt Thornton is too much to pay is nuts. There's no way that either of those two + a relief prospect land this kid. Isn't his performance a ? too after this season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 24, 2011 -> 08:17 PM) So is Gordon Beckham and you never have kind things to say about him. And other than his defense this year, which has been really good, what can one say positively about him since '09? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 24, 2011 -> 08:17 PM) Yeah, the only ? on Rasmus is his attitude, which has been a problem with LaRussa. However, anyone saying that Edwin Jackson or Matt Thornton is too much to pay is nuts. There's no way that either of those two + a relief prospect land this kid. It wouldn't be a huge price, but...........Jackson is probably near the top of available starters at this time and Thornton has been an elite reliever for a lot of years, and teams are desperate for pitching. It might be a package someone is willing to go higher than a questionable Colby Rasmus for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 24, 2011 -> 08:17 PM) So is Gordon Beckham and you never have kind things to say about him. I doubt 3 years from now Rasmus is a CF, and do you really thing Ozzie is going to bench Rios to play Rasmus? I could only assume that if such a move were to take place that CQ would be traded. I'm not sure. Like you said, this is probably all bulls***. I'm just saying that I'm looking at the long-term ramifications. "All-In" has been bulls*** and I'm f***ing sick of that phrase. We've been All-in every year since '05 and have one division title to show for it. Time to change the philosophy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 24, 2011 -> 08:19 PM) And other than his defense this year, which has been really good, what can one say positively about him since '09? Offensively, he had a great second half last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 24, 2011 -> 08:22 PM) Offensively, he had a great second half last year. Which is totally negated by his replacement level performance this year. And that's despite a recent hot streak. I was one that was encouraged by Gordon's second half last year. I didn't expect Cano or Pedroia. But he's right on par with guys like Maicer Izturis and Chris Getz. Edited July 25, 2011 by Jordan4life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jul 24, 2011 -> 08:27 PM) Which is totally negated by his replacement level performance this year. And that's despite a recent hot streak. I was one that was encouraged by Gordon's second half last year. I didn't expect Cano or Pedroia. But he's right on par with guys like Maicer Izturis and Chris Getz. He's better than that and you know it. Has anything Rasmus accomplished been negated by his performance since May 1? Edited July 25, 2011 by Dick Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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