southsider2k5 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 25, 2011 -> 09:14 AM) The point buried here is that all of y'all are arguing that what we'd be doing with this trade is acquiring an .850+ OPS corner OF (his defense in CF is below Rios's if you believe Fangraphs) while paying the price for a .740 OPS corner OF who is sorta on the bench. I just have a lot of trouble believing that this would work out as easily as we want. That no one else would step in with a better offer if they thought he was a .850 OPS CF, that the Cardinals would part with him for the price of a .740 OPS corner OF even if he was in the manager's doghouse. They have their star pitcher out with an injury. In this version of the deal they get a guy who can help them this year, and be gone next year. In version two of the deal, Matt Thornton becomes their most talented reliever in a meh pen. Who is going to offer them better than that for this pennant race? They need help now, and we match up perfectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 25, 2011 -> 09:29 AM) The problem there is there isn't much pitching on the open market. At least 5 teams have been linked to the Cardinals and Rasmus, the Rays are hot after him too. I trust that scouting department. Word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 25, 2011 -> 09:29 AM) The problem there is there isn't much pitching on the open market. At least 5 teams have been linked to the Cardinals and Rasmus, the Rays are hot after him too. I trust that scouting department. Me too! Lets bring in Colby! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 I actually had Colby on the Sox in an OOTP league once a couple years back, so here y'all go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 25, 2011 -> 09:14 AM) The point buried here is that all of y'all are arguing that what we'd be doing with this trade is acquiring an .850+ OPS corner OF (his defense in CF is below Rios's if you believe Fangraphs) while paying the price for a .740 OPS corner OF who is sorta on the bench. I just have a lot of trouble believing that this would work out as easily as we want. That no one else would step in with a better offer if they thought he was a .850 OPS CF, that the Cardinals would part with him for the price of a .740 OPS corner OF even if he was in the manager's doghouse. Despite the fact that Steve watches the Cardinals "like a Hawk," the fact is that hardly anyone here sees Colby Rasmus like they do our own players. Thus, all his flaws can be dismissed and we can only glorify him as the player the enormous expectations once said he would be. It doesn't matter that he doesn't get along with one of the most respected managers in baseball, it doesn't matter that he has been inconsistent and regressed offensively, it doesn't matter that he is unhappy on one of the most respected teams in baseball, in one of the best baseball cities in America....no, all that matters is that he's Colby Rasmus! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 25, 2011 -> 10:18 AM) Despite the fact that Steve watches the Cardinals "like a Hawk," the fact is that hardly anyone here sees Colby Rasmus like they do our own players. Thus, all his flaws can be dismissed and we can only glorify him as the player the enormous expectations once said he would be. It doesn't matter that he doesn't get along with one of the most respected managers in baseball, it doesn't matter that he has been inconsistent and regressed offensively, it doesn't matter that he is unhappy on one of the most respected teams in baseball, in one of the best baseball cities in America....no, all that matters is that he's Colby Rasmus! You could easily substitute Dayan Viciedo in there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Jul 25, 2011 -> 08:03 AM) With Buerhle and Jackson off the books after the 2011 season- we would only have Peavy, Danks, Floyd and Humber locked in for 2012. Adding a young & cheap Beachy to that rotation would be just what the doctor ordered. Also, all signs point to Sale being added to the rotation in 2012. So if the Sox wanted to continue the 6 man rotation in 2012- they would have the flexbility to continue to do that. I sure as hell hope that the bolded isn't even a consideration. We needed to be creative this year with Peavy's condition, but doing this again next year would be nuts, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 25, 2011 -> 09:35 AM) You could easily substitute Dayan Viciedo in there... Absolutely... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jul 25, 2011 -> 10:33 AM) I rest my case. Colby 4 Prez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 25, 2011 -> 09:35 AM) You could easily substitute Dayan Viciedo in there... Except we have no reason to believe that DV has attitude issues. Otherwise, yes, the "unknown" receives less scrutiny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Jul 25, 2011 -> 10:46 AM) I sure as hell hope that the bolded isn't even a consideration. We needed to be creative this year with Peavy's condition, but doing this again next year would be nuts, IMO. We have Peavy under contract for next year too. If we had to protect his health this year, what makes you believe we shouldn't protect it next year? He has done nothing to prove to us that he can go a full season of being healthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulie4Pres Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Yes, Rasmus is likely an upgrade over Rios. I'm not sure how much, right now, but he is likely an upgrade. Especially going forward. The problem is, Rios is still here. He hasn't gone anywhere. He hasn't been waived, traded, or killed. The Sox won't acquire him and bench Rios. Unfortunately, room would need to be made for Rasmus, since Rios is likely going NOWHERE. That probably means Quentin is going somewhere. Pierre/Rios/Rasmus is NOT an improvement, now, or for the future. Until Rios is somehow removed from the equation, what sense does it make to acquire another CF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 25, 2011 -> 09:29 AM) The problem there is there isn't much pitching on the open market. At least 5 teams have been linked to the Cardinals and Rasmus, the Rays are hot after him too. I trust that scouting department. Sox won't get him, someone else will. Even though it's not prospects, I'm sure someone else will offer something better than what the Sox have, if Rasmus is as good as most on here say. Tampa can probably trade any of their starting pitchers not named Price or Shields and have someone in the minors come up and do the job just as well as the guy they traded, because their system is that stacked with pitching(I think I read that somewhere, correct me if I'm wrong or all of them are up in the majors already). Edited July 25, 2011 by Elgin Slim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Jul 25, 2011 -> 10:29 AM) We have Peavy under contract for next year too. If we had to protect his health this year, what makes you believe we shouldn't protect it next year? He has done nothing to prove to us that he can go a full season of being healthy. Yes. And he hasn't even been very good. No reason to bend over backwards for him and handicap the rest of our flexibility with the 25 man. Next year is our last year with Jake, mercifully. He's either good enough to pitch in a five man rotation or he isn't. We'll have plenty of pitching options. Edited July 25, 2011 by Stan Bahnsen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Paulie4Pres @ Jul 25, 2011 -> 11:41 AM) Yes, Rasmus is likely an upgrade over Rios. I'm not sure how much, right now, but he is likely an upgrade. Especially going forward. The problem is, Rios is still here. He hasn't gone anywhere. He hasn't been waived, traded, or killed. The Sox won't acquire him and bench Rios. Unfortunately, room would need to be made for Rasmus, since Rios is likely going NOWHERE. That probably means Quentin is going somewhere. Pierre/Rios/Rasmus is NOT an improvement, now, or for the future. Until Rios is somehow removed from the equation, what sense does it make to acquire another CF? This is a move made for the future as much as right now. With Rasmus, you have the flexibility to sit one of Pierre or Rios. Basically rotating 4 guys for 3 positions. Come next year, I believe CQ will be gone (if he doesn't get traded this year). Then we will have an outfield of Viciedo/Rasmus/Rios which has the potential to be pretty studly if Rios can improve upon this year. That outfield will be set for the next 3 or 4 years. If a guy with Rasmus's talent becomes available for as seemingly little as it's gonna take to get him, you gotta take the chance. Edited July 25, 2011 by lasttriptotulsa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knackattack Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 (edited) You guys remember how "rebuilding on the fly" got us Danks, Gavin and Q!? When Kenny goes after these players he is usually right. I'm sorry but regardless of how good he is, an expensive LH reliever and a propsect or a rental starting pitcher and a prospect (not named viciedo in either case) is absolutely highway robbery for Colby Rasmus is he comes anywhere near his potential. And even if he burns out it is still the type of trade you can't be mad with because of the immense possible reward. LH power hitting speedy Cf'er? Yes please. Edited July 25, 2011 by Knackattack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 "One player will not make a difference" -- Ozzie Guillen/Chris Rongey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Knackattack @ Jul 25, 2011 -> 11:53 AM) You guys remember how "rebuilding on the fly" got us Danks, Gavin and Q!? When Kenny goes after these players he is usually right. I'm sorry but regardless of how good he is, an expensive LH reliever and a propsect or a rental starting pitcher and a prospect (not named viciedo in either case) is absolutely highway robbery for Colby Rasmus is he comes anywhere near his potential. And even if he burns out it is still the type of trade you can't be mad with because of the immense possible reward. LH power hitting speedy Cf'er? Yes please. This is important, not because KW is 'usually right' but because the past has no bearing on the future. Sometimes guys bust, sometimes they don't. They all have talent, and there's a reason they're considered prospects. The rest of Colby Rasmus' career has nothing to do with anyone else the Sox have acquired and busted. Right now, he's a guy with a ton of potential at a premium position, and we'd have to consider acquiring him. The team we have now isn't winning, and you have to make a gamble if you want to change that. Betting on Rasmus' talent and the health of Peavy isn't the worst risk, especially given that you have 4 solid, healthy guys in the rotation, meaning that if Peavy goes down, you only have to BS one spot in the rotation, which a lot of contending teams do regularly already. "But what if Peavy and another pitcher both go down? Pitchers get hurt a lot." Then you lose. That's the crappy luck that happens when good teams don't end up winning it all. You gotta put the best talent out there and hope it does what it's supposed to do. Sure, hindsight is 20/20, but you have to evaluate deals based on what you know at the time. Dunn is another example. I don't blame KW at all for signing Dunn and we all loved it at the time because there was no reason at all to expect this collapse. In hindsight, sure it sucks now, but that doesn't make it a bad move. KW filled our biggest hole with the single most consistent run producer in the majors outside of Pujols. There was always a chance it would blow up but it was very small. If he makes this trade, he's dealing a soon to be FA in a position of depth for a young, cost-controlled asset to fill one of our biggest holes. It might not work out, but it's worth the risk. Edited July 25, 2011 by Eminor3rd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPN366 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jul 25, 2011 -> 10:33 AM) Throw her in, and you got a deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
black jack Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jul 25, 2011 -> 10:33 AM) did anyone else click to see the remix? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jul 25, 2011 -> 04:55 PM) "One player will not make a difference" -- Ozzie Guillen/Chris Rongey Team effort to win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPN366 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 QUOTE (black jack @ Jul 25, 2011 -> 12:06 PM) did anyone else click to see the remix? Would she let Colby get to fifth base? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 QUOTE (JPN366 @ Jul 25, 2011 -> 12:12 PM) Would she let Colby get to fifth base? butthole? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPN366 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 25, 2011 -> 12:14 PM) butthole? To be frank... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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